Spanking Correlates to Lower IQ | INFJ Forum

Spanking Correlates to Lower IQ

Discussion in 'News and Politics' started by TheLastMohican, Sep 25, 2009.

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?
  1. Usually, yes.

    16.7%
  2. Occasionally, yes.

    16.7%
  3. No, never.

    61.1%
  4. I am undecided.

    5.6%
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  1. TheLastMohican

    TheLastMohican Captain Obvious
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    http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17856-smacking-hits-kids-iq.html


    I would be wary of concluding a direct causation from this, especially because of the following statistic included in the article:
    With only 7 percent of mothers abstaining from spanking, and presumably opting for more intellectual routes of persuasion, it should not be surprising that most of those mothers are also providing more cognitive stimulation, which was shown to make the most difference in IQ.
    But on the other hand, it was noted that the researchers took other factors of intelligence into account before drawing their conclusions, and, though it was not explained in the article, I would expect that they compared the intelligence and teaching styles of the parents to their propensity to spank. For practical purposes, I think this study should put any debate over the merits of spanking to rest, at least for normally developing children (not that it will).
     
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  2. Satya

    Satya C'est la vie
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    Oh, observing the rule that correlation does not necessarily imply causation is boring.

    It's much funner to imagine that ass slaps shake neurons loose!
     
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  3. OP
    TheLastMohican

    TheLastMohican Captain Obvious
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    The trouble with that is that it seems to shake loose gray matter, but not white matter or nose hairs.
     
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  4. Indie.J

    Indie.J Community Member

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    I laughed when I first heard this but my mum never spanked me so I wouldn't be able to reach a firm conclusion just yet. My IQ is approx. 140 though so not spanking me may have worked. I think my brother's may be approx. 120.

    Yeah, I'm undecided but I can see how they'd reach that conclusion. Spanking doesn't really teach the child a lesson. It sure tells them that they've done something wrong but it doesn't explain why it was wrong which is one of the things my mum always did. Kids will understand a lot better when given a reason. They talk about the childrens' IQ lowering due to stress. I think a lot of that stress may come from confusion. Unless the spanking is traumatic, I think the child's IQ wouldn't lower as much if you spanked them but also gave them a reason as to why. I think children may also grow up to make better risk assesments if you explain possible consequences for their actions. I think this is an important part of developing their skills in making decisions.
    For e.g. If you run out onto the road you may get hit by a car and get seriously hurt. (obvious, but not always to children)
    If you tell your child the consequence and explain how important it is hopefully next time they come to a road they would have learnt from the explanation and take more care. Also explaining how to cross a road would help to. Parents have to remember their job is to gradually teach children how to survive in an adult world, parenting is not all about disipline which is what I think many parents mistake as their only role in their child's life.
    I have seen parents smack their children for the most ridiculous things without an explanation for what they're doing wrong. So yes, I think disipline without the explanation could be harmful to a child's IQ. Smacking a child doesn't really teach them how to cross the road.
     
    #4 Indie.J, Sep 25, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2009
  5. testing

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    Well, I'm a mother with small kids, and though I definitely do not believe spanking is the best method of discipline at all, the problem with saying "Don't Spank" leaves you with "Okay, so what DO I do?"

    Trust me, when you have a rampaging 3-year-old with massive sibling rivalry issues who is trying to choke his baby brother, negotiation tactics do not work when trying to get him to abstain from this behavior.

    My point being that parenting is not easy; in fact it can be very, very, very hard. There is a distinct lack of training out there for those of us trying to do it in an effective, loving manner. Every expert has a different opinion. It would be nice if there were more clear answers and help, because most mothers need help, especially those with young children.

    I also think that the people who promote spanking the most, and who resort to harsh verbal punishment as well, already have low IQs. That is part of the reason for their kids' lower IQ scores. (Isn't there a study out there with this finding?)

    (Just saying...)
     
  6. arbygil

    arbygil Passing through

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    I laaaughed...

    I had a combo in my household. I was an only child, though - wasn't like there was anyone else acting up. I usually got a really deep lecture about why what I was doing was bad, and then I got a spanking to reinforce it.

    They didn't have to worry much about me, though; the lectures were far worse for me than the spanking because the spanking was always over and done with in a second. And then we'd compare spanking stories at school, which was always fun...Lol!
     
  7. Indie.J

    Indie.J Community Member

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    Yes, parenting is very, very, very hard and I resent those people who don't have kids telling parents otherwise. What I said before is what mum did with me because I was a fairly bright and amazingly calm kid to begin with. It was a whole different story for my brother whose motivations were reactions. So mum basically equipt me with the abilty to withstand direct fire with a poker face. Easier said than done and of course she had to sway my brother's motivations as well so that he became disinterested in the phenomena of a screaming child, which he could find plenty of.

    The IQ of the parent definitely has effect on the IQ of the child. Parents are a child's starting block. If they don't get a good starting push it's hard for them to go much further. I don't agree with spanking at all but that is a parent's decision. I got really mad once because my mum's friend spanked my brother while we were in her care. I understood at the time that it was her style of parenting but still, there are definite lines. Anyway, her child is very intelligent as well. Somewhere in the "gifted" region, I think.
     
  8. daydreamer

    daydreamer Permanent Fixture

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    My brother got spanked a lot, I'm pretty sure. His IQ is very high.
     
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  9. testing

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    Don't blame you!

    (P.S. I hope my comment about how parenting is hard did not sound snippy, not the intention!)

    And the whole explaining-the-consequences thing is a great idea, and something I try to do as well with my children, but it seems to work better with some children than others, and it seems to work better on older children. Sometimes it just plain does not work.

    _____

    e.g. Typical "explaining" scene in my house after my formerly reigning center-of-the-universe only child became an older brother:

    Me: "If you choke your brother, it will hurt him and make him very sad!"

    3-year-old: "Yay!!!" (lunges toward brother...)

    Me: Grabs baby away, pops migraine-strength excedrin, and looks up article by prominent parenting expert to see if locking 3-year-olds in closet causes psychological damage...
    _____

    What they need to do is a study on how much having an older sibling damages a person's IQ! LOL
     
  10. Indie.J

    Indie.J Community Member

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    I don't have any kids yet because I'm only 16 so I don't mind you pointing out the flaws in my opinions. I'll only learn a valuable lesson from it. But yeah, I wasn't sure whether I offended you or not but the above scenario you just described was what my younger brother was like. He loved to see people scream and cry, not that he was a saddist or anything, it was just his way of experimenting. He would even make obscure connections between peoples motivations. One time he ran for a powerpoint just so grandma would put down her tea and it was free for the taking. He was amazingly fast and agile so making the switch in directions was not a problem for him. He was just interested in the tea and luckily grandma realised just in time.

    Hmmm... having older siblings damaging the younger one's IQ. Plausible and definitely a contributer in some aspects, but if you had to fight somebody supposedly smarter than you everyday, you might end up developing craftier tactics than some of the older siblings the same age as you. Just a thought. But expectations on younger siblings can change because of the relation of their age to the older sibling. You hear a lot of, "but they're too young to know that yet", but it has a lot more to do with the individual as to whether or not they should know something at a certain age. I think getting babied longer can effect a child's IQ and constantly comparing the age gap between the older sibling can cause a parent to baby their youngest longer. I've seen youngest children who still couldn't talk properly in kindergarten due to having the expectation of being the baby of the family.

    But yeah, I don't think any one thing will contribute alone to a child's lack of IQ. I think an IQ is a product of every aspect of a child's lifestyle/environment.
     
  11. testing

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    Indie J, you're only 16? You come across as much older! I am certain I was not as poised or articulate at that age.

    The great thing (one of the great things) about having kids is that you get to watch a wonderful human being go through the different stages of development we all go through. For me at least, as a child I thought each stage and experience was unique to me. But from an adult perspective, watching your young child grow and develop, you find that so many stages and so many experiences we have are shared -- i.e., we all go through sibling rivalry of some sort, unless we are an only child. You want so badly to try to explain and put into perspective the pain and confusion the child may be experiencing at whatever stage he is in, but you know that to really understand it, the child must experience it him or herself.

    One other great thing about having kids is that for the first time it enables you to fully humanize your own parents. (Well, it did for me anyway.) Before, it was almost hard to imagine that they had lives before and beyond me! Perhaps I am just overly self-centered but that's what I used to think, on some level... until I had kids.

    Finally, having kids helps you understand that the so-called experts are not really experts! LOL. Not all of them, anyway, there is an amazing amount of bullshit marketed as expertise. Gives you respect for the innumerable moms, dads, grannys, etc. who were in the trenches trying to keep kids alive and healthy until we made it to adulthood for so many generations.

    It's also really cool to know that each and every person started life out as a vulnerable infant. Everyone. Makes you kind of want to cut everyone some slack, you know?

    (What is running for a PowerPoint, BTW?):m083:
     
  12. IndigoSensor

    IndigoSensor Product Obtained
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    I was never spanked, and in hindsight I am rather surprized my dad never spanked me. He spanked my step sibblings. I think it is because my mom would have made a custody battle if he did, and my dad did not want that at all. My dad has physiclly "grabbed" me before though, and a long lasting distrust and dislike formed for him after each event that never dimished.

    I will never spank my kid once I have my own, ever.
     
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  13. Julia

    Julia Community Member

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    I'm not sure about those statistics, but am aware of the effect anxiety has on learning. There is a natural way children explore their environment which needs to be channeled and not controlled. Sometimes curious children explore, get in trouble, get spanked, and could eventually stop exploring which could correlate to less learning.
     

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