Social Conservatism | INFJ Forum

Social Conservatism

Discussion in 'News and Politics' started by Satya, Jun 24, 2010.

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  1. Satya

    Satya C'est la vie
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    Social conservatism is a political or moral ideology that believes government and/or society have a role in encouraging or enforcing what they consider traditional values or behaviors based on the belief that these are what keep people civilized and decent.

    Principles of social conservatism...

    -Pro life
    -Oppose embryonic stem cell research
    -Hesitant to develop technology (bio conservatism)
    -Traditional marriage (man and woman)
    -Support nuclear family structure
    -Oppose child adoption to same sex couples
    -Support prohibition of drugs
    -Support prohibition of prostitution
    -Support prohibition premarital sex
    -Support abstinence
    -Support prohibition of nonmarital sex
    -Support prohibition of euthanasia
    -Support prohibition of pornography
    -Support public morality (state enforced morality)

    Basically this platform is the complete reverse of mine. I'm curious as to what brings an individual to embrace social conservatism. I believe it correlates heavily with religion, but as TLM said in the other thread, that is not always the case.

    Which of these positions appeal to INFJs?
     
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  2. kita

    kita <font color=#990066>Regular Poster</font>

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    None of the positions appeal to me. I have strong values but almost none are traditional, maybe because I empathize so much with people outside of mainstream society? I tend to see things from their POV.
     
  3. testing

    On Holiday

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    See above. Going to lunch.
     
  4. Trifoilum

    Trifoilum find wisdom, build hope.

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    hmm, in DnD terms, standard Lawful Something? It's mostly aimed towards safety and control.

    This is quite centralized in America, I'm afraid; in my country, its political belief were mostly conservatism (one that's based on religion too) so.. yeah. I'm saying that I'll be one of the more rebellious person in my place. In America / others, I think I'll be more conservative compared to your liberals.
    so..yeah, pretty much indifferent >_>;
     
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  5. laurie

    laurie Snowblind in Dreamland

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    That about sums it up :)
     
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  6. IndigoSensor

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    Green I am for. Blue I am completely indifferent to, yellow I don't support, red I don't and I am wildly against it and it is just flat out illogical to me. I also added one more item to the list, because I support it and it is a big issue

    -Pro life
    -Oppose embryonic stem cell research
    -Hesitant to develop technology (bio conservatism)
    -Traditional marriage (man and woman)
    -Support nuclear family structure
    -Oppose child adoption to same sex couples
    -Support prohibition of drugs
    -Support prohibition of prostitution
    -Support prohibition premarital sex
    -Support abstinence
    -Support prohibition of nonmarital sex
    -Support prohibition of euthanasia
    -Support prohibition of pornography
    -Support public morality (state enforced morality)
    -Tough immigration laws
     
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  7. OP
    Satya

    Satya C'est la vie
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    Tough immigration laws are actually based on libertarian values. Protecting the borders is essential for the market to function efficiently and to ensure national security.
     
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  8. RecklessDreamer

    RecklessDreamer Permanent Fixture

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    That.
     
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  9. aeon

    aeon Ooh, a bunny!
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    • Pro life - I value human life from conception, oppose capital punishment, would not choose abortion, but at the same time, I would not seek to make abortion illegal or to coerce anyone else what to do in this regard.
    • Oppose embryonic stem cell research - I do not value it, especially as stem cells are available otherwise, but I would not seek to make embryonic stem cell research illegal or to coerce anyone else what to do in this regard.
    • Hesitant to develop technology (bio conservatism) - I value the development of technology.
    • Traditional marriage (man and woman) - I do not value government involvement in marriage. I value government-recognized civil unions without discrimination as it concerns sex, gender, sexual orientation, and number of partners.
    • Support nuclear family structure - I value it, yes, but not to the exclusion of other family structures that help meet people's needs.
    • Oppose child adoption to same sex couples - I do not value this.
    • Support prohibition of drugs - I value the end of the War on Drugs, and value decriminalization.
    • Support prohibition of prostitution - I value the legalization of any and all activities between and among consenting adults.
    • Support prohibition premarital sex - I do not value this.
    • Support abstinence - I support it for those who value it and for those who are helped by it, but I do not value its use in a coercive manner.
    • Support prohibition of nonmarital sex - I do not value this.
    • Support prohibition of euthanasia - I do value this as it concerns nonconsensual euthanasia. Otherwise, I do not value its prohibition.
    • Support prohibition of pornography - I do not value this.
    • Support public morality (state enforced morality) - I absolutely do not value this.

    I value classical liberalism.


    cheers,
    Ian
     
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    #9 aeon, Jun 24, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2010
  10. bamf

    bamf Is Watching You
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    Those are my stances on the subjects.
     
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    #10 bamf, Jun 24, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2010
  11. VH

    VH Variable Hybrid

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    Principles of social conservatism...

    -Pro life - I am pro choice and pro death penalty.
    -Oppose embryonic stem cell research - This is absolutely stupid.
    -Hesitant to develop technology (bio conservatism) - Technology of any kind should always be developed based on asking "what should we do?", rather than "what can we do?" However, simply banning development for no other reason than the unfamiliar is unappealing to some people is just plain foolish. There is also a big difference between research and development, and mass production. Knowing what we can do and making it available to the public are also two very different things. In the end, I think medical research should be accelerated as much as possible.
    -Traditional marriage (man and woman) - I think marriage is a religious institution and therefore a religious freedom, not a government institution, and don't think the government should have any bearing on it. If a religion allows someone to marry a goat, then they are married. The government does not have the right to interfere in religious freedoms.
    -Support nuclear family structure - I do support nuclear structure when it can work and is not toxic for everyone involved. I consider it the 'ideal' situation. However, reality is often less than ideal, and I support any structure that works to create healthy and well developed people with the support and encouragement they need to become fully developed healthy adults.
    -Oppose child adoption to same sex couples - Adoption must always be based on review of the couple, regardless of orientation.
    -Support prohibition of drugs - I disagree with the enforcement of victimless crimes. Therefore, I am very much pro marijuana legalization and pro legalization of any drugs that have been proven to not cause behavioral and criminal problems (even though I don't use them myself) and believe the tax revenue should be used to fight drugs that have been proven cause behavioral and criminal problems such as meth, cocaine, heroin, etc.
    -Support prohibition of prostitution - Again, so long as no one is harmed in the process or given a communicable disease, this is victimless crime, and I'm against the enforcement of it. I'm very much pro legalization of prostitution. Nations that have legalized but well regulated prostitution have much less problems associated with prostitution. Would I engage in prostitution, even if it were legal? No. But, I believe in personal choice. Would I discourage people from engaging in it? Yes, but again the choice is their own. The government has no business enforcing personal morality.
    -Support prohibition premarital sex - Absolutely not, especially between two consenting adults who love each other. Sex is an amazing and beautiful thing when used responsibly. I am very much an advocate of safe sex, not just physically but also emotionally. There are many risks both physically and emotionally, and I believe people should be well educated in those risks before they choose to engage in sex or not.
    -Support abstinence - I support abstinence as a personal choice to avoid the physical and emotional risks of sex. The government cannot enforce this without violating personal rights.
    -Support prohibition of nonmarital sex - I'm assuming this is referring to 'adultery' law - as in sex with someone other than the person you are married to... otherwise it's premarital sex? Unless both partners are very emotionally healthy and open to this, then I strongly discourage it as it can lead to all manner of marital problems in the long run. Again, I don't think the government has any business in this area.
    -Support prohibition of euthanasia - I see this as part of being pro choice, which I am.
    -Support prohibition of pornography - This is one of those rare points where I believe the government should take some control. At current, it is far too easy for children to access pornography, and far too difficult for parents to protect their children from it if they so choose. I would love to see better legislation and enforcement of internet pornography access. One answer is to simply prohibit pornography on any website that does not have the domain .xxx, for example www.nakedwomen.xxx, and from there create web browser permissions that block all .xxx domains.
    However, I think adults should have the right to look at whatever they want, and so long as no one is hurt in the process of creating the media, then it should be legal to make and view by adults if they so choose. Personally, I would like pornography producers to take the responsibility to create emotionally responsible content depicting healthy relationships where people love one another - to encourage healthier relationships, rather than the standard raunchy disconnected arrays of close up shots stemming from plots based on selfish gratification and treating people like objects - which have been rather well proven to discourage healthy relationships. The issue isn't watching sex to be aroused. It's the emotional content in that sex. I'm not suggesting that adults shouldn't be able to produce or watch whatever content they want. I'm just suggesting that there be more awareness of responsibility on the part of those who produce them, again a personal choice.
    -Support public morality (state enforced morality) - This is such an unconstitutional notion that I can't address it. However, I strongly feel that people should encourage morality on a personal level through freedom of speech.

    In other words, I support a lot of socially conservative views, but I very much do not believe the government should have anything to do with them. They are all individual choices, or else they are not valid. I consider myself socially liberal because I believe in choice, even when I would not make those choices.
     
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    #11 VH, Jun 24, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2010
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  12. magister343

    magister343 Permanent Fixture

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    -Pro life - Yes, although not opposed to contraception. Keeping in mind that it usually takes about half a day after sex for sperm to actually reach an egg to fertilize, morning after pills are fine. Obviously when childbearing is likely to lead to the death of the mother abortions should be allowed, and strongly encouraged when it is likely that this would happen too soon for the child to survive. This does not really need to be an explicit special exception though, as killing in self defense is a valid innocent plea for a murder trial and law enforcement rarely bothers to prosecute when the need for self defense is clear.
    -Oppose embryonic stem cell research - when it requires the destruction of more embryos
    -Hesitant to develop technology (bio conservatism) - hesitant to use government funding for such projects, don't find private research
    -Traditional marriage (man and woman) - I'd rather marriage be left up to religious institutions. I'd rather any contracts involved be like prenuptial agreements, with terms defined by the partners and not the state or tradition.
    -Support nuclear family structure - How? What does this really have to do wit the state?
    -Oppose child adoption to same sex couples - I may be a little uncomfortable with the idea but not enough to want to legally prohibit it. In general I think adoption is too heavily regulated as it is.
    -Support prohibition of drugs - I'm ok with bans or regulations in localities (from state governments to private landlords and employers), but the federal government has no constitutional right to get involved except to prevent smuggling into areas where it is illegal. (Well, the feds could also still prohibit that their employees use them.)
    -Support prohibition of prostitution - Sounds like an issue to be locally banned or regulated
    -Support prohibition premarital sex - Discourage its practice, yes. Legally prohibit it, of course not.
    -Support abstinence - Personally yes, but I don't see a place for the government in this
    -Support prohibition of nonmarital sex - Discourage its practice, yes. Legally prohibit it, of course not. I don't think the state should be defining marriage anyway.
    -Support prohibition of euthanasia - yes
    -Support prohibition of pornography - It should be treated exactly like prostitution if money is exchanged. Free amateur porn is fine though.
    -Support public morality (state enforced morality) - What does this mean?

    Frankly I dislike "morality," as etymologically speaking it deals with what is customary rather than what is right. (Ethics is the same, just from Greek instead of Latin, although to be fair is it usually a shortening of Ethica Arete or "good habits.") It is a very much SJ concept. We should encourage what is right, not what is traditional.







    Christians should care greatly about protecting life, but on other issues the new testament seems rather clear that we are to be strict on ourselves but not enforce our views on non-Christians.


    No it is not. Libertarians generally favor freedom of movement, of finished goods, resources, capital, and people. The libertarians who oppose open immigration generally do so on the grounds that immigrants are a further drain of the tax payer because of social programs that they would really rather just abolish anyway.
     
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    #12 magister343, Jun 24, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2010
  13. Barnabas

    Barnabas Time Lord

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    I've deleted where appropriate, for my own views.

    I'm socialy conservative and while I support all of these things, I don't think there is a need to create laws regarding them.
     
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  14. Faye

    Faye ^_^
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    1. What do you mean by "abstinence"? Do you mean abstinence only education? Or do you mean abstinence plus knowledge of contraceptives?

    2. I'm not hesitant for technology to be developed, but I am hesitant for it to be employed. We often apply technologies before exploring the full implications of their use, and I am afraid now that we are headed toward an era where the employment of certain technologies may prove to be an irreversible mistake. We may even by making that mistake now.

    3. The state enforces morality regardless. It doesn't have to be a theocracy to do so. Mostly, the state (meaning the U.S. government) supports a morality to help perpetuate capitalism combined with conspicuous consumption/consumerism (or spending money you don't have on things you don't need).
     
  15. Kgal

    Kgal Magic Star Dust
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    None of these positions appeal to me except for the issue on pornography.
    While I'm all about choice (for adults only) porn is really creating havoc for long time married couples. I think it has something to do with seeing all those pics of "perfect" people obviously having a good time. It's hard to look at that and then go home and look at the spouse you've had for 10 or 15 years. I'm talking about the "skin" you see in mainstream media also. I wish they'd tone it down and make porn a harder to access.
     
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  16. OP
    Satya

    Satya C'est la vie
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    Abstinence only education. No education of contraceptives. And a position of no sex before marriage.
     
  17. IndigoSensor

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    It really comes down to this: Who are we to dictate what other people do in their private lives? It is completely and utterly illogical to me to disagree with such a notion. In particular where 95% of these listed things truly have no effect on anyone else around you. Or, the effect is so minimal it is easily disregardable.
     
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  18. Quinlan

    Quinlan Right the First Time!

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    I blame the SJs.
     
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  19. Holden On

    Holden On Community Member

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    Black reflect my views, red do not.

    -Pro life
    -Oppose embryonic stem cell research
    -Hesitant to develop technology (bio conservatism)
    -Traditional marriage (man and woman)
    -Support nuclear family structure
    -Oppose child adoption to same sex couples
    -Support prohibition of drugs
    -Support prohibition of prostitution
    -Support prohibition premarital sex
    -Support abstinence
    -Support prohibition of nonmarital sex
    -Support prohibition of euthanasia
    -Support prohibition of pornography
    -Support public morality (state enforced morality)
    -Tough immigration laws
     
  20. OP
    Satya

    Satya C'est la vie
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    I think a social conservative would argue that even if these actions had no direct influence on you as an individual, the acceptance in society of these actions would have social consequences, such as spiritual and emotional desensitization, community health risks, and the decay of societal stability.
     
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