Self help

[AntoniaDodge]

Slant - Do you enjoy writing? Somehow I have a feeling you do. If there's a local used bookstore (even a basic retail bookstore) located in your town/city I'd check to see if they have a creative writing workshop they sponsor, or even just know about. And if they don't, see if you can start one. Put up fliers and advertise for it.

I've found fewer things more satisfying than a homegrown workshop. And there's plenty of material on-line for creative writing exercises, etc... You'll have to be patient to collect people you'd want for it, but eventually you'd be surrounded by kindred minds. Plus, you'd have a weekly excuse to practice writing, which is always a blast and challenges one to break out of self-consciousness and shyness. You really can't go wrong.

 

[slant]

Slant - Do you enjoy writing? Somehow I have a feeling you do. If there's a local used bookstore (even a basic retail bookstore) located in your town/city I'd check to see if they have a creative writing workshop they sponsor, or even just know about. And if they don't, see if you can start one. Put up fliers and advertise for it.

I've found fewer things more satisfying than a homegrown workshop. And there's plenty of material on-line for creative writing exercises, etc... You'll have to be patient to collect people you'd want for it, but eventually you'd be surrounded by kindred minds. Plus, you'd have a weekly excuse to practice writing, which is always a blast and challenges one to break out of self-consciousness and shyness. You really can't go wrong.

Yes, I am a writer. I've thought of it from time to time but have always been scared off by the traditional 'critique' clubs where people tear your work apart with petty explanations. Though, I have a feeling that if I did form sort of writing group it would be nothing of that sort. Grammar corrections, maybe, but nothing to limit creativity...Hmmmm....

I'll think on that one.

 

[AntoniaDodge]

I've thought of it from time to time but have always been scared off by the traditional 'critique' clubs where people tear your work apart with petty explanations. Though, I have a feeling that if I did form sort of writing group it would be nothing of that sort. Grammar corrections, maybe, but nothing to limit creativity...Hmmmm....

I'll think on that one.

I definitely recommend it. And if people get overly critical, Lay Down the Law. Make it clear the workshop is about improvement but that it's more important improvement happens through nurturing and experience than through tearing down somebody else's art.

Most people will respect this and be supportive. Usually it's a rogue punk that isn't, and give that person Das Boot.

 

[slant]

I definitely recommend it. And if people get overly critical, Lay Down the Law. Make it clear the workshop is about improvement but that it's more important improvement happens through nurturing and experience than through tearing down somebody else's art.

Most people will respect this and be supportive. Usually it's a rogue punk that isn't, and give that person Das Boot.

Yeah, Like in the AA setting. I always felt at home in Alcoholics Anonymous. They just have a brilliant method of running things.

 

[Soulful]

I've been following along the thread, thinking what others have said about your insight I do wish I had had it that together at 15..

Fifteen year olds don't talk about love, charity and the serious issues of the world. They just don't.

I think that some do. I would suggest to find the ones that do if you want to be around them. If you feel that they don't (based on your experiences) then maybe that means you're not around the ones who do?

I had a dawning realization several years back.. when I changed environments (moved away to school) and suddenly found people who were very different from the kinds of people who had been present in my life up to that point. They weren't as like-minded as I wanted them to be (although more like-minded than the previous ones), but nevertheless, it was a valuable experience. I've always known people are different, on an intellectual level, yet I fell intro a trap of feeling like I didn't fit in with the people I was around and thinking there was something wrong with me, while not realizing that maybe I just wasn't around the kinds of people I felt best with. I know it sounds so obvious, and I'm not implying this to be your experience. I just wanted to share. Because chances are, if there is something you're looking to find like-mindedness about, then you will find it. I bet there are people who feel similarly/same way you do, and maybe think the same thing you do. Imagine, all of you feeling the same way, thinking that others don't feel that way...

Oh, the vast stretches of advice that have been poured into that section. I really do like my intelligence, but I do feel trapped in a body that isn't equal to the capacity of my brain. Everyone in my family seems to be above-the-norm and I just find it hard putting myself within the range of other people. It's unsatisfying. In fact, a lot of the times I will lose a sense of myself when I try to fit in with a group or people because of the 'requirements' they subconsciously put on you. Fifteen year olds don't talk about love, charity and the serious issues of the world. They just don't. But my INFJ father has recently suggested I join some sort of activist cause [ I'd probably aim for Gay Rights] or chess club, because he says thats where people with intellect tend to gather. But perhaps this could be considered a self-help problem? How can I help myself to fit in better with my peers without having to 'dumb' myself down?

 

[slant]

I've been following along the thread, thinking what others have said about your insight I do wish I had had it that together at 15..

Fifteen year olds don't talk about love, charity and the serious issues of the world. They just don't.

I think that some do. I would suggest to find the ones that do if you want to be around them. If you feel that they don't (based on your experiences) then maybe that means you're not around the ones who do?

I had a dawning realization several years back.. when I changed environments (moved away to school) and suddenly found people who were very different from the kinds of people who had been present in my life up to that point. They weren't as like-minded as I wanted them to be (although more like-minded than the previous ones), but nevertheless, it was a valuable experience. I've always known people are different, on an intellectual level, yet I fell intro a trap of feeling like I didn't fit in with the people I was around and thinking there was something wrong with me, while not realizing that maybe I just wasn't around the kinds of people I felt best with. I know it sounds so obvious, and I'm not implying this to be your experience. I just wanted to share. Because chances are, if there is something you're looking to find like-mindedness about, then you will find it. I bet there are people who feel similarly/same way you do, and maybe think the same thing you do. Imagine, all of you feeling the same way, thinking that others don't feel that way...

Oh yes it- It is the enviornment. I agree with that quite a lot, actually. I'm independent on political stands, considering I'm not old enough to even consider voting, but a lot of my views are liberal. I live in a quite Republican state. There is also a very large religious denominator to Utah, so it seems. There is a incredibly large amount of Mormonism here, little variety. I woundn't mind living somewhere like California. A bit of sun all year long wouldn't be too bad either. But that's just dreaming, I think. For at least the next three years I am stuck here. =/ Might as well make the best of it.

And thanks for sharing. It was insightful, really nice to know someone mirrors my feelings in a similar situation.

 

[Soulful]

Oh yes it- It is the enviornment. I agree with that quite a lot, actually. I'm independent on political stands, considering I'm not old enough to even consider voting, but a lot of my views are liberal. I live in a quite Republican state. There is also a very large religious denominator to Utah, so it seems. There is a incredibly large amount of Mormonism here, little variety. I woundn't mind living somewhere like California. A bit of sun all year long wouldn't be too bad either. But that's just dreaming, I think. For at least the next three years I am stuck here. =/ Might as well make the best of it.

And thanks for sharing. It was insightful, really nice to know someone mirrors my feelings in a similar situation.

I'm glad it's helpful I'm starting to realize we are never as alone as we think ourselves to be. Never... Even if we may feel we are. I tend to generalize though.. so I hope I'm right

I imagine living in an environment that's sort-of in opposition to how you feel/who you are may feel constraining. That can't always be easy. But on the upside, the benefit you'll have from that is that contrast itself. Now you know that this is who you are because you lived in an environment that allowed you to define that for yourself and made it obvious to you. And that is valuable.

California sounds so nice! Somewhere by the coast where the ocean meets the sand, the warm glow of sunshine...
I've heard that about Utah actually - the higher republican and mormon population. Is it very widespread? Like everywhere you go, those philosophies/attitudes are all around you?
Not to sound ignorant.. but I've never lived somewhere where the political climate was that obvious/heavy..

 

[slant]

I'm glad it's helpful I'm starting to realize we are never as alone as we think ourselves to be. Never... Even if we may feel we are. I tend to generalize though.. so I hope I'm right

I imagine living in an environment that's sort-of in opposition to how you feel/who you are may feel constraining. That can't always be easy. But on the upside, the benefit you'll have from that is that contrast itself. Now you know that this is who you are because you lived in an environment that allowed you to define that for yourself and made it obvious to you. And that is valuable.

California sounds so nice! Somewhere by the coast where the ocean meets the sand, the warm glow of sunshine...
I've heard that about Utah actually - the higher republican and mormon population. Is it very widespread? Like everywhere you go, those philosophies/attitudes are all around you?
Not to sound ignorant.. but I've never lived somewhere where the political climate was that obvious/heavy..

Yes, everywhere. Around every two blocks is a mormon church. I am seriously not kidding. They have Seminary buildings on the [edit: school] property, which is somehow justified legally. You got the grocery store and get out to the parking lot [ had this happen a few times] and a missionary comes up to you and talks about 'the church'. The majority of 7th and 8th grade were Utah history and no surprise there- we learned about the church.

My 9th grade Geography teacher had enough nerve to talk about politics even though teachers aren't allowed to and started to talk about the evils of abortions, sex before marriage, all of these his RELIGIOUS beliefs. And I was the only one who spoke up against him. Here, if you aren't mormon you're either in it alone or you're against the church, and the majority of the people against the church are druggies...probably because it's depressing here. Constantly mormon girls invite me to their church, and when I went to Young Womens during 7th grade I was full of questions [I had never really been to church]

Why do you hate gay people?
A: We don't, we love them and want them to get better.
Gay people aren't sick! Why is it so wrong to be gay?
A: Well, I don't know. You might want to talk to someone else about this.

And this was the Youth Leader! Mormons are funny because a lot of the times they don't want to talk about their beliefs. That useful because they don't argue like most hardcore chrisitans, and even the most hardcore mormons sort of keep to themselves. The only problem is that when you go into a store, it seems like everyone looks down to their feet- nobody says hi, everyone is just, robotic, if you aren't a familiar church member. When I went to Colorado, things were WAY different. Strangers looked me in the eye, people smiled.

It's strange.

 

[Soulful]

That does sound strange.. no offense to where your home is. It's just that I can imagine myself in that situation, and I would feel uncomfortable. Colorado must have been an interesting experience.. Was it the first time you were somewhere that was different in the way people interacted in public?

I always think it is so unfortunate when people don't question their beliefs. I'm sure I do that myself with some things and don't even realize it, which is unfortunate. But it always strikes me by surprise. Especially people who realize they don't question it and aren't struck by that.

Yes, everywhere. Around every two blocks is a mormon church. I am seriously not kidding. They have Seminary buildings on the property, which is somehow justified legally. You got the grocery store and get out to the parking lot [ had this happen a few times] and a missionary comes up to you and talks about 'the church'. The majority of 7th and 8th grade were Utah history and no surprise there- we learned about the church.

My 9th grade Geography teacher had enough nerve to talk about politics even though teachers aren't allowed to and started to talk about the evils of abortions, sex before marriage, all of these his RELIGIOUS beliefs. And I was the only one who spoke up against him. Here, if you aren't mormon you're either in it alone or you're against the church, and the majority of the people against the church are druggies...probably because it's depressing here. Constantly mormon girls invite me to their church, and when I went to Young Womens during 7th grade I was full of questions [I had never really been to church]

Why do you hate gay people?
A: We don't, we love them and want them to get better.
Gay people aren't sick! Why is it so wrong to be gay?
A: Well, I don't know. You might want to talk to someone else about this.

And this was the Youth Leader! Mormons are funny because a lot of the times they don't want to talk about their beliefs. That useful because they don't argue like most hardcore chrisitans, and even the most hardcore mormons sort of keep to themselves. The only problem is that when you go into a store, it seems like everyone looks down to their feet- nobody says hi, everyone is just, robotic, if you aren't a familiar church member. When I went to Colorado, things were WAY different. Strangers looked me in the eye, people smiled.

It's strange.

 

[arbygil]

That is...scary, Slant. Sounds like a few horror movies, and I'm not kidding about that. Mind control, zombie movies...same vibe.

I would ask what your parents do, but I'm assuming one or both have a job there, or they're in the armed forces. Heck, I'd get out of there as soon as I could! At least the Scientologists don't have their own state!

 

[slant]

That is...scary, Slant. Sounds like a few horror movies, and I'm not kidding about that. Mind control, zombie movies...same vibe.

I would ask what your parents do, but I'm assuming one or both have a job there, or they're in the armed forces. Heck, I'd get out of there as soon as I could! At least the Scientologists don't have their own state!

My mom works at the cable company [ we get free internet and movie channels!] and my dad is a self-employed Divorce Attorney. Ironic, really, because of how the marriage with my mother went....XD

And my parents, in the armed forces? Haha! They are as anti-war as it gets.

 

[arbygil]

I think I'd be planning my escape from that state as soon as I could. Sounds like something out of Stepford, or worse...

 

[slant]

I think I'd be planning my escape from that state as soon as I could. Sounds like something out of Stepford, or worse...

My mom's most desperate wish is to move. She wants to go back to college because when she birthed me and married my father we moved to Ohio so he could go to college, and she had to drop out to take care of me. We moved back to Utah so that he could finish at BYU [ all of his family lives here in Utah, too] and then we got stuck here by the time that my sister was born. California, Arizona or Colorado are what we're thinking about. My mom moved a lot of different places as a kid, and she's never lived in one state as long as utah---SHE WANTS OUT! So do I! The only person who doesn't seem to want to move is my Dad, he was raised mormon and he has a bit of an attachment to this place, I think. He is ignorant of the differences between Utah and all other places in the world.

 

[Pristinegirl]

NF problem or advantage?

There are several downsides to being an INFJ and what I would like to be discussed on this thread is not just what those downsides are, but how we can overcome these barriers.

I'll start us off

Us INFJ's are both blessed and cursed. And it is the very same things that both bless and curse us. Our intuition lets us see things that others can't, but this seperates us from other types because we can't make others understand how we know these things. yet we know (think?) that we are right. I am often misunderstood by people. People who I like and respect will occasionaly decide without warning that I am dishonest. Or that I don't respect other people. This breaks my heart because I'm always as honest and fair as I can be, even at my own expense. Does this happen to anybody else, and if so does anyone have any thoeries as to why?

Oh my this happens to me all the time and I am an ENFP.
I believe it is due to the Feeling combined with the Intuition. As Feelings are personal, when we feel for something we feel deep and strong right. So if the other part does not feel the way we do they can't understand our train of tought either, because they are based on personal feeling. This makes us desperate and frustrated to make them understand because they are missing out on, what to us is SO TRUE and important to know. It is so unfortuante for us because we are rarer than the thinking and can't just disregard feeling. They are lucky to miss out on the helplessness and agony that can be felt. Hope it helped


and this is for you Slant:
You are completely right on to seek help especially for abuse. I never experienced sexual abuse so I can't express an opinion on that. however my dad moved abroad and I lost my security. You see I have the exact problem as your friend, craving attention and to be loved by all men, wishing they will be proud of me, EVEN though I get councelling.
Councelling has helped me understand why I am the way I am, but changing the sensation, longing, emotion and desire is quite impossible as the experience is there. Imagine you ignoring your inner most longing dream, If we are to completely ignore these 'dreams/desires' and not act out on some of them, we become subdued and oppressed. The same goes for your friend so maybe now you are a little more understanding.

 

[slant]

Oh my this happens to me all the time and I am an ENFP.
I believe it is due to the Feeling combined with the Intuition. As Feelings are personal, when we feel for something we feel deep and strong right. So if the other part does not feel the way we do they can't understand our train of tought either, because they are based on personal feeling. This makes us desperate and frustrated to make them understand because they are missing out on, what to us is SO TRUE and important to know. It is so unfortuante for us because we are rarer than the thinking and can't just disregard feeling. They are lucky to miss out on the helplessness and agony that can be felt. Hope it helped


and this is for you Slant:
You are completely right on to seek help especially for abuse. I never experienced sexual abuse so I can't express an opinion on that. however my dad moved abroad and I lost my security. You see I have the exact problem as your friend, craving attention and to be loved by all men, wishing they will be proud of me, EVEN though I get councelling.
Councelling has helped me understand why I am the way I am, but changing the sensation, longing, emotion and desire is quite impossible as the experience is there. Imagine you ignoring your inner most longing dream, If we are to completely ignore these 'dreams/desires' and not act out on some of them, we become subdued and oppressed. The same goes for your friend so maybe now you are a little more understanding.

The fact that you're getting help for it is excellent. I read a nice in-depth book about Childhood Trauma called: Too Scared to Cry, which taught me a lot about these sorts of things. I constantly recognize traits in my friends that need proffesional help, yet the motivation for them to help themselves isn't something I can supply by myself. And the 'inner most longing dream' supression is something I can relate to in my own way. I used to have a lot of homical thoughts when I was in a depressive state of mind but I did take steps towards elminating them.

I believe my problems stemmed from childhood bullying, both physical and verbal, in which I felt seperate from society. My wanting to lash out at society was an experession of my feelings of vulnerability and how unwilling I was to sort through my own rage toward people. Once I did, I realized that I couldn't control my outside events and that they weren't my fault...But I still do feel angered at any form of putdowns, even if it's just joking around.

Though, bullying and sexual abuse are two different things. Yours seems to be a greater obstacle to climb since it was a trusted adult who abused you- and that is one of the most damaging events that can happen to a child.

Kudos to you for your accomplishments. That's self help right there.

 

[Pristinegirl]

Yes it is, although it does not really help me. Because the issues I have could be dependent on my my NF , that I feel so strongly for everything. I think that they should look at the personality TYPE instead of a diagnosis that is to vague and could be applied to anyone.
Seeing traits in your friends is common if you study psychology, I do it all the time haha. It's called the psychology student syndrome.

I was never abused physically but emotionally and my mom didn't look out for me enough either because she was ill from Post traumatic stress syndrome. So altogether it is child neglection! However I believe I turned out well, compared to some of the many subdued prudes out there who DID have a perfect familly.

I actually have an appointment today, but I don't know what to say...