Relationship vs Religion | Page 11 | INFJ Forum
Thank you for taking your time @just me :)

I accept Christ. While history is hardly absolute either because a number of points remain contentious, in general, I accept Christ. I accept that He is real and I recognize that He is special. He was many things and He exhibited wisdom beyond His time. I accept His teachings, too but I think too little of myself to believe that I understand all of it in its entirety. I think this will forever be an ongoing work even for priests and pastors or even theologists. Notice my reverence for Him as I write the pronouns with a capital H. :D after all, Christianity dictates He is God and He is the Holy Spirit.

Kidding aside, what I view as volatile are the interpretations of His teachings. I am not certain that any one of us are able to understand His teachings in its entirety. Isn't that what makes Him the alpha and the omega because He is beyond our grasp? Rather it appears to me that we understand His teachings as we should, depending on circumstances we are battling with. In that is where volatility lies because if we are not seeing His teachings in entirety, are we not vulnerable to using and interpreting His teachings for our own gain? Isn't this scarily volatile? It is in this vein that I simultaneously recognize but second guess dogma. Tithes, for example, are dogmatic to me. I understand that it is a religious act but I second guess whether such faithfulness is rightfully placed. To be honest, I have stopped going to mass because while the scripture intrigues me, the homily most often annoys me. Priests are human as they are and their ego shines through their interpretations of God's word, so to speak. It is the same ego that is bound to appeal to us as we interpret scripture.

In any case, I am not without experiences of the "Divine". I know love. I know that warmth. I know that peace. I have at least encountered them enough to convince me that there is more to us than the chemical composition in our bodies. The ethereal, while contentious, is potentially out there. If anything, I believe that it exists. This is my act of faith. Nonetheless, to me it doesn't place religion nor dogma at par with these experiences of divinity. In a sense, it is hard for me to accept the supremacy of Christianity because there is equal divinity in "the colors of the wind". I refuse to believe that pagans are not engulfed within God's love if they are simply unable of recognizing dogma. Moana of Motunui is a fairly reasonable girl. Why should she be robbed of heaven when dogma hasn't even existed in her time?

While I see the relevance of monotheism, I cannot help but interpret monotheism as simply our oneness as beings. If anything, I wonder if God really should be perceived as an other, or if God and the Holy Spirit is after all, all of us living.

I was intrigued by @Deleted member 16771' mentioned work on how knowledge is spread. I'm not sure which thread I read it on, but I wondered if that interesting spread of knowledge could prove us as one network. Somehow, doesn't it increase the probability of the theory that perhaps maybe we are all made of one and the same God?

Edit: it is because of this theory that I value connection and communication because I somewhat believe that we strengthen God via our relationships. This is also the reason why I find it hard to be on the wagon for Divorce because I take marriage very seriously. To me, marriage is close to the faith in God. It is an embodiment of my Faith and my values for human connection. Should it fail, it signifies failure of a God I am seeking. I know that this is irrational and subject to fault because no human nor marriage is perfect which is how I encounter my existential crises...
Woop!
 
Exo 20:3; Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 1st commandment

Religion = [ism] = In respect to the God which is observed through WORKS

The religions of liturgical Gods commonly found in industrialized nations:

Catholic[ism]

Protestant[ism]

Mormon[ism]

Mohamad[ism]

Buddha[ism]

Athe[ism]

The religions of institutional Gods commonly found in industrialized nations:

Capitol[ism]

Commune[ism]

Marx[ism]

Social[ism]

Consumer[ism]

Quant[ism]

[Liturgy: a form or formulary according to which public religious worship is conducted.]

It boggles my mind that intelligent people find this so hard to understand.

Faith is only that one actually BELIEVES in the God, not the liturgy/institution.

Christianity does not require works; therefore, it is not a liturgy or institution.


I served once as the high priest of mammon in the congregation I attended as chairman of the board of trustees. Our congregation was probably better than most, considering that our pastor did not accept a salary, because he was retired. I quickly discovered that they appointed me to this position because they found that I was very effective when donating my time and efforts for the church, but the real reason was that they wanted me to do their bidding, instead of choosing for myself what I would do.

We were blessed to be given a monthly stipend from a cellular company that we allowed to use part of our property for one of their towers. This was free money essentially. The board only wanted to put it in the bank (putting it under a rock for all intents and purposes). I made the argument that it should be used for charitable purposes, per our purpose as an institution of Christ. I was fired the next session. They DEMANDED that I break the First Commandment. Needless to say, I kicked the dust off of my shoes as I left the building.

If you guys think that I will stand quietly, on a mere thread, which its topic is on the fundamental understanding of Christianity, because its identity has been destroyed, even by the very people that claim it as their own, you are sorely mistaken.
 
is not a liturgy
Christianity has been liturgical since the very beginning. The first or oldest liturgy is written by James the 'brother' or Jesus and first Bishop of Jerusalem. The next oldest is by Mark who founded and was the first Bishop of the Church in Alexandria, Egypt

Christ himself was/is the liturgist, in greek,
leitoúrgima, this word was changed around the time of Martin Luther (if I remember correctly) to what we commonly see today as minister. Instead of reading that Christ, as leitoúrgima, led the people in "the common work of the people" which is what Christianity is, we read that Christ ministered. That may not seem like much but it is a huge change in the language and interpretation of the message and approach to worship.
 
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Exo 20:3; Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 1st commandment

Religion = [ism] = In respect to the God which is observed through WORKS

The religions of liturgical Gods commonly found in industrialized nations:

Catholic[ism]

Protestant[ism]

Mormon[ism]

Mohamad[ism]

Buddha[ism]

Athe[ism]

The religions of institutional Gods commonly found in industrialized nations:

Capitol[ism]

Commune[ism]

Marx[ism]

Social[ism]

Consumer[ism]

Quant[ism]

[Liturgy: a form or formulary according to which public religious worship is conducted.]

It boggles my mind that intelligent people find this so hard to understand.

Faith is only that one actually BELIEVES in the God, not the liturgy/institution.

Christianity does not require works; therefore, it is not a liturgy or institution.


I served once as the high priest of mammon in the congregation I attended as chairman of the board of trustees. Our congregation was probably better than most, considering that our pastor did not accept a salary, because he was retired. I quickly discovered that they appointed me to this position because they found that I was very effective when donating my time and efforts for the church, but the real reason was that they wanted me to do their bidding, instead of choosing for myself what I would do.

We were blessed to be given a monthly stipend from a cellular company that we allowed to use part of our property for one of their towers. This was free money essentially. The board only wanted to put it in the bank (putting it under a rock for all intents and purposes). I made the argument that it should be used for charitable purposes, per our purpose as an institution of Christ. I was fired the next session. They DEMANDED that I break the First Commandment. Needless to say, I kicked the dust off of my shoes as I left the building.

If you guys think that I will stand quietly, on a mere thread, which its topic is on the fundamental understanding of Christianity, because its identity has been destroyed, even by the very people that claim it as their own, you are sorely mistaken.

Please don't stand quietly. I am asking because I need to understand. I was baptised in Christ, raised in Catholic dogma, and Confirmed. In high school, I was practically a devotee to the Sacred Heart of Jesus. I fought my mother for making me take the entrance examinations to the national university when all I wanted was to join a weekend retreat with the "Seekers of the Lord". I was a Seeker. I am a Seeker.

I am asking because I am lost. I have questions that love and faith cannot silence and I refuse to believe that my God, as magnanimous as He is, will be angry at the fact that I am having questions. After all H/S/he gave me the ability to ask, didn't S/H/e?

I have been battling with these for a while now and I know that not all questions can be answered. I have been told that seeking for answers is akin to Eve biting the apple of knowledge: it is poison and I shall be banished. So if we take that part of the scripture literally, then my God has banished me for seeking this other god of knowledge? Is that so? Thus, no matter how I dedicate my life to good deeds, I will never be worthy of heaven because my pursuit was primarily ego serving at best? Is it wrong that I seek knowledge as I see it more capable of empowering people to fix the ires of the world in the now? Am I being an infidel to my God? Or is Knowledge also God? What if Capitalism and all the above listed isms are also God Himself?

Please do not stand quietly. I have been lost for so long. I know that Faith requires me to believe in spite of my questions and I am trying my hardest to do that. However I have lost my usual cry for worship. It's always a loop and I always come down to the mild conclusion of: just believe. And I do. I try. But how do you really completely believe when you're only sweeping your questions under the rug? I ask and often I am faced with blank stares.

But here in this forum of many people with different expertise, I want to ask because maybe you have the answers I need.

In the event that none of us have the answers, I still choose to believe but I can't shake off the feeling of being a hypocrit. See? Existential crisis.

Edit: yet I refuse to call myself an atheist because my experiences of love and peace are enough to convince me that the Divine ethereal is out there or perhaps amongst us. Sure those are the chemical parties in my brain but for such a party and a moment to connive to provide such? It is too beautiful a coincidence. I once asked a religious man about his viewpoint on God. He is a structural engineer and lives faithfully. He told me to observe the designs of the universe: that it is all too intricate to not be deliberate. The Divine is responsible for all this beautiful logic. But see, what if God is all of us?
 
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Existential crisis
What if you changed 'crisis' into 'process'? It's all part of growth. If you simply accept blindly and deny your questions then you deny yourself knowledge, growth and transformation. I too had questions and the answers I received (if I received any at all) were incomplete and shallow. As a result, I hated Christianity for a very long time. Then I learned there are unfortunately thousands of christianities. Then I learned not all christianities are created equal. Now I call myself a Christian.
 
What if you changed 'crisis' into 'process'? It's all part of growth. If you simply accept blindly and deny your questions then you deny yourself knowledge, growth and transformation. I too had questions and the answers I received (if I received any at all) were incomplete and shallow. As a result, I hated Christianity for a very long time. Then I learned there are unfortunately thousands of christianities. Then I learned not all christianities are created equal. Now I call myself a Christian.

Perhaps. I hate feeling like an infidel to a God I hope I know I believe in. It makes it hard to forgive my self. I ask my self, why does it have to be so absolute, anyway? Am I not counter acting my formative views on fluidity by needing absolute answers? I dislike the second guesses but they're there. Often when I encounter people with absolute certainty, I get magnetized because I almost want to tinker with their brains to know how they are so absolutely sure. As if to ask, what did I miss that they didn't?
 
Now I call myself a Christian
But above all, I call my self a human. And what a good thing to be!

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day
 
But above all, I call my self a human. And what a good thing to be!

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day

This is oddly comforting. Thank you :)
 
31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good.

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Perhaps. I hate feeling like an infidel to a God I hope I know I believe in. It makes it hard to forgive my self. I ask my self, why does it have to be so absolute, anyway? Am I not counter acting my formative views on fluidity by needing absolute answers? I dislike the second guesses but they're there. Often when I encounter people with absolute certainty, I get magnetized because I almost want to tinker with their brains to know how they are so absolutely sure. As if to ask, what did I miss that they didn't?

I think you said you've experienced the overwhelming peace, love, unity of all things and asked if that was God? (I forget where I saw that) Yep. That's God. But that's not all God is. You know God. But you also know that you don't know God. That's what God is. Immanent and transcendent. Knowable and unknowable. Is and is not. Some folks believe and call that knowledge. They know about God. Others know God and humility arises as they know that no matter how much they know God, they just can't know God.

You cannot know God – but you have to know Him to know that. – Fr. Thomas Hopko

Yay paradox!
 
I think you said you've experienced the overwhelming peace, love, unity of all things and asked if that was God? (I forget where I saw that) Yep. That's God. But that's not all God is. You know God. But you also know that you don't know God. That's what God is. Immanent and transcendent. Knowable and unknowable. Is and is not. Some folks believe and call that knowledge. They know about God. Others know God and humility arises as they know that no matter how much they know God, they just can't know God.

You cannot know God – but you have to know Him to know that. – Fr. Thomas Hopko

Yay paradox!

Whoah. Paradox, indeed.
 
The Christian faith was never intended to make a man gloomy or downcast, but to put joy in his heart and a song upon his lips. No one has more right to a cheerful countenance than the sincere Christian, for he can be sure that he knows the way of happiness here and nothing can come to him hereafter save peace and glory in the redeemed life. Copied Bible Hub

So, while many religious systems require that a person do or not do certain things, Christianity is about believing that Christ died on the cross as payment for our own sins and rose again. Our sin debt is paid and we can have fellowship with God. We can have victory over our sin nature and walk in fellowship and obedience with God. That is true biblical Christianity. copied Got Questions


Most religion, theistic or otherwise, is man-centered. Any relationship with God is based on man’s works. A theistic religion, such as Judaism or Islam, holds to the belief in a supreme God or gods; while non-theistic religions, such as Buddhism and Hinduism, focus on metaphysical thought patterns and spiritual “energies.” But most religions are similar in that they are built upon the concept that man can reach a higher power or state of being through his own efforts. In most religions, man is the aggressor and the deity is the beneficiary of man’s efforts, sacrifices, or good deeds. Paradise, nirvana, or some higher state of being is man’s reward for his strict adherence to whatever tenets that religion prescribes.

In that regard, Christianity is not a religion; it is a relationship that God has established with His children. In Christianity, God is the aggressor and man is the beneficiary (Romans 8:3). The Bible states clearly that there is nothing man can do to make himself right with God (Isaiah 53:6; 64:6; Romans 3:23; 6:23). According to Christianity, God did for us what we cannot do for ourselves (Colossians 2:13; 2 Corinthians 5:21). Our sin separates us from His presence, and sin must be punished (Romans 6:23; Matthew 10:28; 23:33). But, because God loves us, He took our punishment upon Himself. All we must do is accept God’s gift of salvation through faith (Ephesians 2:8–9; 2 Corinthians 5:21). Grace is God’s blessing on the undeserving. copied from
"Is Christianity a religion or a relationship"

That's all I have to say about that tonight. Good night.