REAL women

[enfp can be shy]

Do they? Women are recognizably womanly pretty much EVERYWHERE. Differences are generally in how they are treated, what they wear, etc.

What do you mean by womanly? What about Amazons and such - I'm guessing they don't quite fit in your implied sense of womanly, for example? Are such cultures not to be considered human?

Aren't Amazons a myth?

Yes, the word is from a Greek myth, but is used also for women warriors, which have existed in various cultures, and still exist in Africa.

 

[Quinlan]

You don't need swords and guns little kitty, you have FANGS and CLAWS! Rawrr!

 

[the]

I happened to be attracted to a man who was 300 pounds, has Autism, and is permanently disabled according to Social Security.

Certainly not attracted to power. I'm the powerful one in the relationship. Now he's not 300 pounds anymore (he's 210) but he's still disabled. He receives a disability check. I have swords and guns and know how to use them to protect the both of us.

I think you were stereotyping women a bit too much.

I think you are an outlier. Which I think is important to society as a whole.

 

[Quinlan]

What do you mean by womanly? What about Amazons and such - I'm guessing they don't quite fit in your implied sense of womanly, for example? Are such cultures not to be considered human?

Aren't Amazons a myth?

 

[~jet]

What do you mean by womanly? What about Amazons and such - I'm guessing they don't quite fit in your implied sense of womanly, for example? Are such cultures not to be considered human?

They look like women to me. How could they not? What did you think they look like? Asparagus?

 

[sassafras]

I will give you this though. This is what those women were used to advertise.

I'm going to go out on a limb here, but... I think they're advertising beauty products. Which is kind of ironic, right? Since their whole campaign is about "real beauty," wrinkles, stretch-marks, curves and all.

Or is that not what you were getting at? I'm confused by what there would be to argue.

 

[DoveAlexa]

I'm going to go out on a limb here, but... I think they're advertising beauty products. Which is kind of ironic, right? Since their whole campaign is about "real beauty," wrinkles, stretch-marks, curves and all.

Or is that not what you were getting at? I'm confused by what there would be to argue.

Oh, I thought it was something less obvious . I was hoping for some sort of OH WOW moment.

 

[the]

I'm going to go out on a limb here, but... I think they're advertising beauty products. Which is kind of ironic, right? Since their whole campaign is about "real beauty," wrinkles, stretch-marks, curves and all.

Or is that not what you were getting at? I'm confused by what there would be to argue.

Stretch marks are natural arent they?

 

[enfp can be shy]

They look like women to me. How could they not? What did you think they look like? Asparagus?

No, I'm glad we agree on them being as much women as any other. Then again, what did you mean by womanly?

 

[~jet]

No, I'm glad we agree on them being as much women as any other. Then again, what did you mean by womanly?

As in recognizably female, with feminine body parts and curves and so on and so forth. I just can't get past the fact that in all cultures, men appear to favor women and women men... otherwise they'd have long since died out. The genetic/environmental differences between them is noticeable to the human eye of some other culture sure, but is still minute compared to their physical similarities that, in the end, we're all still the same specie and can interbreed successfully. Still, folks who grow up in a nomadic culture are both physically effected by that lifestyle, but even as it influences what they look like, it also influences what they appreciate. The same came be said for people who never leave a metropolis, or live their whole lives battling a stiff maritime breeze or live in cold or hot or wet or dry places, etc. All in all, the contexts appear to work themselves out far TOO well given that the planet is fatally overpopulated. =P

 

[slant]

As in recognizably female, with feminine body parts and curves and so on and so forth. I just can't get past the fact that in all cultures, men appear to favor women and women men... otherwise they'd have long since died out. The genetic/environmental differences between them is noticeable to the human eye of some other culture sure, but is still minute compared to their physical similarities that, in the end, we're all still the same specie and can interbreed successfully. Still, folks who grow up in a nomadic culture are both physically effected by that lifestyle, but even as it influences what they look like, it also influences what they appreciate. The same came be said for people who never leave a metropolis, or live their whole lives battling a stiff maritime breeze or live in cold or hot or wet or dry places, etc. All in all, the contexts appear to work themselves out far TOO well given that the planet is fatally overpopulated. =P

I just wish everyone was gay.

 

[Faye]

I'm going to go out on a limb here, but... I think they're advertising beauty products. Which is kind of ironic, right? Since their whole campaign is about "real beauty," wrinkles, stretch-marks, curves and all.

Or is that not what you were getting at? I'm confused by what there would be to argue.

Firming lotion for the "plus-size" women? "As tested on real curves"?

They seem to be saying that, because these women aren't skinny, they need firming lotion for their presumably stretched skin. Streched out by their relatively higher % of body fat, of course.

Dove wouldn't admit it, but their advertisement, aside from being good publicity, really just aims to exploit the insecurity of women.

In reality, those women aren't fat or even plus-sized (they only are 'plus-sized' relative to super-skinny models), and they are all attractive (IMO). Objectively, they probably have below average body weights for American women (the ones in the advertisement I linked). By below average, I mean healthy.

I just find it funny how so many women seem to think that the company is throwing them a line with which to identify.

 

[~jet]

I just wish everyone was gay.

I'm kinda glad a certain ISFJ is not gay. Given how many naked women graced her paintings, I wasn't entirely sure at first.

 

[invisible]

i always try and get through these long threads, but i make it half way and then i lose concentration!

i just want to add re the symmetry issue that jake gyllenhaal who is widely considered a sex symbol has a reasonably asymmetrical face. it may not be noticable in every picture but the entire left side of his face including his eye is significantly larger than the right side.

some supermodels have perfectly symmetrical faces. kate moss's face was perfectly symmetrical when she was young. but it's very rare. these people are often not considered sexually attractive. kate was one of the most iconic faces of the 90's, but i'm not sure that she was popular as a symbol of sexual desire.

i'm not saying symmetry isn't generally attractive. i just think it's interesting that the limits are flexible even in the most competitive subcultures.

 

[acd]

Firming lotion for the "plus-size" women? "As tested on real curves"?

They seem to be saying that, because these women aren't skinny, they need firming lotion for their presumably stretched skin. Streched out by their relatively higher % of body fat, of course.

Dove wouldn't admit it, but their advertisement, aside from being good publicity, really just aims to exploit the insecurity of women.

In reality, those women aren't fat or even plus-sized (they only are 'plus-sized' relative to super-skinny models), and they are all attractive (IMO). Objectively, they probably have below average body weights for American women (the ones in the advertisement I linked). By below average, I mean healthy.

I just find it funny how so many women seem to think that the company is throwing them a line with which to identify.

It's just brilliant marketing... very adaptive strategy.. obviously women and men are fed up with the unrealistic beauty standards of the industry.. so Dove makes itself seem to appear to adapt to those expectations..


They're all still selling snake oil.

 

[enfp can be shy]

As in recognizably female, with feminine body parts and curves and so on and so forth.

That's the thing, the parts which we consider feminine/masculine have not always been particularly that interesting for each sex. Yes, men's and women's bodies don't vary that much, but the way they appreciate them varies.

For example, during some period in the 20th century women were quite particularly obsessed with getting a very very thin waist. That would be most important, above anything else. Men would grow up believing that this is what makes women more attractive. Then this is changed, and while women still prefer to have thin waist, the priority is not as extremely high above anything else, as it used to be.

I just wish everyone was gay.

Why do you care? Ah, because you don't want them to reproduce. But there's also ephemeralization to oppose Malthus, but it's a long topic.

 

[Quinlan]

In reality, those women aren't fat or even plus-sized (they only are 'plus-sized' relative to super-skinny models), and they are all attractive (IMO). Objectively, they probably have below average body weights for American women (the ones in the advertisement I linked). By below average, I mean healthy.

I doubt that, I think most of them would be at least overweight by BMI.

This woman has a BMI of 29.5, well into the overweight range and only a few pounds away from obese. She doesn't look that much bigger than the dove models.

 

[NiennaLadyOfTears]

BMI is a bunch of crock. My BMI is 30.9 and my body fat percentage (according to hydrostatic weighing, the most accurate way of measuring body fat) is only 18%.

 

[anica]

I happened to be attracted to a man who was 300 pounds, has Autism, and is permanently disabled according to Social Security.

Certainly not attracted to power. I'm the powerful one in the relationship. Now he's not 300 pounds anymore (he's 210) but he's still disabled. He receives a disability check. I have swords and guns and know how to use them to protect the both of us.

I think you were stereotyping women a bit too much.

Ah, I think I'm in love, and I can only pray that my son (who weighs 300 pounds and and has schizophrenia) meets someone with your heart someday.

The only other point I want to make is that disability is natural, yet none of the women in the advertisement had any visible disabilities. Nor did anyone in this thread address the issue after Revenwyn brought it up...just the joking about swords and guns. My housemate, who is one of the most physically beautiful women I have ever known, is large (about 200 pounds) and uses a wheelchair for mobility, but it is her weight that bothers her, not her disability. A couple weeks ago she was invited to a national disability conference in DC to celebrate the 20th anniversary of the signing of the ADA into law. While there she got to meet President Obama, shake his hand and speak briefly with him. My husband said, "I wonder how she felt shaking the President's hand," to which I replied, "More to the point is how did he feel shaking hers?

 

[DoveAlexa]

A disability isn't usually something we've either done to ourselves over time through bad habits (thus making us feel guilty) or something we can remove through hard work and dedication, and if we don't, causes further guilt. The reasons it so easy to fall into the mindset of feeling bad is because we feel we should feel bad about it. If we feel bad, the messages and images these companies put out effect us so much more.

The Dove ad was thus focusing on how we feel bad and guilty about not achieving the "ideal" body type, and telling us everything will be ok, don't feel bad, I can fix you!