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Post-Secularism

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by Barnabas, Jan 26, 2010.

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  1. Barnabas

    Barnabas Time Lord

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    possibly, but i'm not familiar with the term.
     
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  2. Peguy

    Peguy Regular Poster

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    Barnabas

    Barnabas Time Lord

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    correct me if I'm wrong, but the the idea of post secularism is that, The secular world is coming to and/or is at it's end. Evidence to support this idea would be seen in tyhe revival of multiple religous groups such as Islam and "New Age".

    It is an interesting concept, but i haven't personally felt any affects of it. Which personally leads me to doubt it out of lack of experience.

    I'm more concerned with the state of the modern Church, and almost all of it's variants. Whehther or not the post secular age has arrived I dare say that the U.S. Church is in need of a revival.
     
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  4. Peguy

    Peguy Regular Poster

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    Well a major element of Post-Secular studies is the fact there is growing academic interest in religion and growing questioning of the Secularization thesis. This was shown last April when Yale hosted the conference Exploring the Post-Secular.

    It's a growing field, and yet one that hasn't received alot of wider attention - especially compared to that of the "New Atheism"(note: it's not really that new, it's a rehash of old arguments). The only well known figures often associated with this field are J
     
    #4 Peguy, Jan 26, 2010
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    Barnabas

    Barnabas Time Lord

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    #5 Barnabas, Jan 26, 2010
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  6. Peguy

    Peguy Regular Poster

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    I wouldn't expect this to be covered in an intro aplogetics class. Many Christians(along with others) are just not really aware of this development. Shame really.

    As for Dawkins and his crew, many of his arguments at best can be considered a throwback to arguments commonly made in the first half the 20th century or even earlier in the 19th. They don't realise how out-dated their arguments really are in light of contemporary developments, among them Post-Secular studies.
     
    #6 Peguy, Jan 26, 2010
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    Barnabas

    Barnabas Time Lord

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    possibly, but if a I may ask what does it bring to the table. how does postsecular studies affect me as a christian, why should this be important to me. There are many things in which the Christian need to take regard of at this time, why does post secularism needed to be added to this?

    I really hope this doesn't come off as stand-offish as I had no intention of it being so.
     
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    #7 Barnabas, Jan 26, 2010
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  8. Peguy

    Peguy Regular Poster

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    Very good questions. Hopefully I'll get back to it. Sorry my mind is rather worn out atm.
     
  9. randomsomeone

    randomsomeone Well-known member

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    I will be watching this discussion, too. The last five decades have been an interesting time period to have been living in. In my own community the post Vatican II era has, over time, led to a great deal of study...a return to the sources...that has enlivened much discussion and altered many practices. It hasn't made any headlines...and it's' not discussed much (sadly), but upon consideration there has been quite a lot of solid inner growth.
     
    #9 randomsomeone, Jan 27, 2010
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    Barnabas

    Barnabas Time Lord

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    I apologise, I have no intention to strech your mind thinner. Rest your mind on the arms of God.
     
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    Barnabas

    Barnabas Time Lord

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    Actually, now that i think about it. I can see where the idea comes from, though to be frank I'm not sure their was a secular era in the U.S.. Maybe this applies to Europe more then the U.S.
     
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  12. randomsomeone

    randomsomeone Well-known member

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    I have found that a basic grasp of various philosophical movements or trends to be very helpful in navigating the times I happen to live in. I basically do not trust the swirling current of contemporary thought unless it is rooted in something much more solid and connected to concepts that are time-tested and sound. The saying, "if you want to be innovative in theology, you have to go backwards" makes a lot of sense to me. The present is always a bit murky, so I tend to triangulate the present together with important touchstones in the past. In my experience, this produces a clarity that transcends the present moment, yet speaks to it powerfully. It allows us to move forward in our own times with a direction and focus less susceptible to illusion.
     
  13. Duty

    Duty Permanent Fixture

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    If you look backwards, then you're only going to get old, well fleshed out refutations thrown back at you. It's a weakly dominated strategy. At best you'll just build your arguments back to the contemporary.
     
  14. randomsomeone

    randomsomeone Well-known member

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    It may seem that way from what I said, but I am actually referring to (in the world of theology) going back to sources...these may have been interpreted various ways across time. The sources themselves offer fresh perspective that can be (and have been) used to re-examine the present. It would be like using a certain calibrated (tested) lens (a type of perspective) to examine something more clearly. In the end a new, innovative approach may be seen, but it is based on a continuum of what is known and trust-worthy....a sort of enlightened hindsight. My comment is directed at the importance of grasping certain trends of thought/experience for finding our best way through the present.
     
    #14 randomsomeone, Jan 28, 2010
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  15. Krumplenump

    Krumplenump Community Member

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    Is "post secularism" another attempt to re-brand 'creationism' and 'intelligent (hah) design'?

    If so, it won't be around for long since If you look at the attempts to get gobbldigook taught in US schools since the 1920's, they have tastelessly switched from one stance to the next in vain attempt to give their cause credibility. At first they had the power to get Darwin banned totally, then that was made impossible so they switched to demanding 'equal time' in schools. This also didn't work well so they then claimed that Darwinism is a 'religion' and so therefore also shouldn't be taught, that didn't work, so they re-branded themselves as creationists, and the most recent insult to human ability is the term intelligent design, to which I assume they are reffering to the intelligent way God created flawless man with useless appendixes and quite happily watched the extinction of many of his perfect creations because they couldn't survive or compete.
     
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  16. Peguy

    Peguy Regular Poster

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    No - Postsecularism deals more with issues related to sociology.

    Most Christian demoninations are not "Creationists", but adhere to what is called "Theistic Evolution" which as the name implies is a theistic interpretation of the evolutionary process.

    Although it may interest you to know that many of the early religious criticisms of Darwin were actually based on scientific theories of the time. This is especially true of Samuel Wilberforce's criticism, who was Bishop of Oxford at the time. Yet even he admitted that he was willing to accept evolution if

    "...Mr. Darwin can with the same correctness of reasoning [as Newton] demonstrate to us our fungular descent, we shall dismiss our pride, and avow, with the characteristic humility of philosophy, our unsuspected cousinship with the mush- rooms ... only we shall ask leave to scrutinise carefully every step of the argument which has such an ending, and demur if at any point of it we are invited to substitute unlimited hypothesis for patient observation.... We have no sympathy with those who object to any fact or alleged facts in nature, or to any inference logically deduced from them, because they believe them to contradict what it appears is taught by Revelation,"(source)
     
    #16 Peguy, Jan 28, 2010
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  17. Krumplenump

    Krumplenump Community Member

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    Yes, and the great thing about science is it disproves and prooves, develops and improves. "Theistic evolution" (yet another alias) is unchanging. If it were to change it wouldn't have any evidence on which to base it's change though so it's futile to even bandy it around as an alternative to Darwinism imo.
     
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  18. Peguy

    Peguy Regular Poster

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    Yes that's certainly wonderful and necessary in terms of empirical study. However in concerning issues of ultimate truth, it's a poor substitute for philosophy or even religion - which deals with eternal truths.

    Do you even know anything about Theistic Evolution?
     
  19. Krumplenump

    Krumplenump Community Member

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    No I do not. Learning about anything (no matter how fancy it's term) that is to do with theory based on religion is as useful to me, and quite frankly everyone else, as learning elvish or writing a thesis on the potential truths behind harry potter.
     
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  20. Peguy

    Peguy Regular Poster

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    Well then, perhaps you need to educate yourself on it. This should give you some basic background:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theistic_evolution

    Now this thread is about Postsecularism, not Darwinism.
     
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