Obama's speech

[Kavalan]

I Could care less about what Obama says until people start realizing these career politicians need to be ousted since they are just kissing ass to say they are "the five time senator from **" what was meant to be a civic duty and a responsibility to speak for their constituents has become an elitist club...

 

[enfp can be shy]

I Could care less about what Obama says until people start realizing these career politicians need to be ousted since they are just kissing ass to say they are "the five time senator from **" what was meant to be a civic duty and a responsibility to speak for their constituents has become an elitist club...

Fact.

Another problem: the job 'USA president' consists of wearing a scarecrow suit for 4 years. Right now it wouldn't matter much if we insert Einstein in the suit.

 

[Kavalan]

Fact.

Another problem: the job 'USA president' consists of wearing a scarecrow suit for 4 years. Right now it wouldn't matter much if we insert Einstein in the suit.

not true. Einstein would be more entertaining

 

[enfp can be shy]

not true. Einstein would be more entertaining

Ah, I see now where's the main shortcoming of Obama. Billy's right then, better bring back Bush.

 

[Tamagochi]

I've had the exact same reservations. There's something "not right" about him and his administration.

I concur. If I filter out the nice stuff obviously meant to appease the masses there's nothing left in his speech. Most of all it lacks personal responsibility and authenticity.

 

[DefectiveCreative]

Why not bring all the troops back now?

Because the Afghani military simply isn't capable yet of maintaining security in the absence of foreign troops, so if those troops leave then the Taliban stand an excellent chance of toppling the current government and resuming power. Considering the Taliban's friendly relations with Al Qaeda it's probable that they'll welcome the network back with open arms and Al Qaeda will have a stable base of operations in Afghanistan again, just like they did when they helped organise the 9/11 attacks.

Everything will be put back exactly the way it was before the invasion, meaning all the sacrifices of the last 8 years will have been for nothing.

 

[krooler]

yeah he should've said something like
"we are getting the troops home now!!! and you can go F*** yourself Afghi! 'cause we are America and we a-gonna rule the world!!! peace brothas, and go F*** yourself, world!!! lol"
but he didn't.
I'm a believer in world peace and that the leaders do their job to find and maintain peace and a bright future. I think in this speech he tried to do exactly that. Who the fuck said it should be easy to please this world with this kind of people? And why do people all the time suspect that this is a facade and that he is actually planning to nuke everything or w/e? When can a person be granted a little bit of trust and acceptance?

 

[Shai Gar]

Fact.

Another problem: the job 'USA president' consists of wearing a scarecrow suit for 4 years. Right now it wouldn't matter much if we insert Einstein in the suit.

Hah! You think a Genius INTP would let himself be used like that?

 

[Shai Gar]

Because the Afghani military simply isn't capable yet of maintaining security in the absence of foreign troops, so if those troops leave then the Taliban stand an excellent chance of toppling the current government and resuming power. Considering the Taliban's friendly relations with Al Qaeda it's probable that they'll welcome the network back with open arms and Al Qaeda will have a stable base of operations in Afghanistan again, just like they did when they helped organise the 9/11 attacks.

Everything will be put back exactly the way it was before the invasion, meaning all the sacrifices of the last 8 years will have been for nothing.

As much as I hate this. It's accurate.

 

[sookie]

I think that it is not possible to stabalize Afganistan. The Soviet Union could not take over Afganistan and left. The terran and caves just offer too many places to hide and ambush. This is why I wonder if we are fighting aa war that can't be one. I actually think that Obama is trying to do a good job. I think that he has a such a hard job I can even imagine. I dont agree with all of his choices. I think that he has made mistakes (he is human).
He did inherit a mess. I know that people are say at some point that he had enough time to change things. I do think that we need to give him time

 

[Tamagochi]

As much as I hate this. It's accurate.

Achieving sustainable democracy and stability in this region will require a whole generation to change. People need to be educated first, social care, justice system and political tradition should be established, economical sustainability created.

Wouldn't it have been easier to just declare Afghanistan the 51st state?

 

[Shai Gar]

Achieving sustainable democracy and stability in this region will require a whole generation to change. People need to be educated first, social care, justice system and political tradition should be established, economical sustainability created.

Wouldn't it have been easier to just declare Afghanistan the 51st state?

No, actually that would have been the worst possible action.

However, they SHOULD follow the advice from the movie "Charlie Pennies War"

 

[the]

Fact.

Another problem: the job 'USA president' consists of wearing a scarecrow suit for 4 years. Right now it wouldn't matter much if we insert Einstein in the suit.

What do you mean by scarecrow suit? Is that a reference to Jim Crow laws or somethin?

 

[enfp can be shy]

You know, all these wonderful intentions would have been easier to believe and support if:
- someone has officially appointed USA as "the world policeman" among all other countries
- the same overly concerned attitude was shown towards all the places in the world, full of problems at any given moment

I thought Obama wanted to change that foreign policy. The rest of the candy rhetoric about the big bad wolf hiding in the bushes I can get from CNN too. Same old, same old, always a bugbear somewhere. The US army of lovers comes along to save us from the evil in the closet.
I can't take seriously a country that is unable to keep its military for themselves. This pattern was repeated throughout my whole life, and it doesn't seem natural to me, sorry. My prescription: Send some troops to the moon, whenever such urge appears, this may help break the habit. Nobody's going to laugh, I promise. We understand.

Hah! You think a Genius INTP would let himself be used like that?

Oh, he would ridicule the whole institution from inside, for sure. And illustrate why it's nothing more than a carrot suit job. That is, if he cared to accept, which I doubt. Nobody wants that job much, it's up to country women, very old men and minorities lately - I hope no one gets offended, I really don't mean to do that.

What do you mean by scarecrow suit? Is that a reference to Jim Crow laws or somethin?

I mean someone they show on TV a lot.

 

[Satya]

I think that it is not possible to stabalize Afganistan. The Soviet Union could not take over Afganistan and left. The terran and caves just offer too many places to hide and ambush. This is why I wonder if we are fighting aa war that can't be one. I actually think that Obama is trying to do a good job. I think that he has a such a hard job I can even imagine. I dont agree with all of his choices. I think that he has made mistakes (he is human).
He did inherit a mess. I know that people are say at some point that he had enough time to change things. I do think that we need to give him time

We won the war in Afghanistan. That is not in dispute. All we face at this point is some resistance. The problem we have is one of government, not military. Most Americans did not notice that Afghan's government turned into a kleptocarcy with the last election. That was the result of America pumping billions of dollars into the country. We have to build up a functional government from the ground up in Afghanistan and there simply isn't the will within the Afghan people to do so. In all the chaos of that country, the Taliban are still seen as the stable authority. The problem with trying to bring democracy to people who don't want democracy is that the first chance they get, they will simply vote away their democracy.

 

[gloomy-optimist]

Okay, here's the thing -- we've done the whole 'go in, do something, then pull out without really finishing it because people want "peace"' thing, and it really doesn't work that well. For instance, after the Gulf War, if we had gone in and kicked Saddam out then, we wouldn't have had to do it years later in the Iraqi War. You could say similar things about North Korea.

We need to finish what we start. That whole "pull out for peace!" thing is a lot of hot air from people that feel better about themselves when we stop "killing people." In issues like this, that's far too simple a philosophy -- if we don't finish what we start, things will most likely get worse, and many more may suffer in the future. We could have people, and more specifically soldiers, die in war, or we could have innocents die later because we didn't stop the problem when we could.

If there are known terrorist groups in Afghanistan, leaving them alone is not going to keep them in their own little sphere. America isn't the only one in this conflict, either.

 

[Satya]

You know, all these wonderful intentions would have been easier to believe and support if:
- someone has officially appointed USA as "the world policeman" among all other countries
- the same overly concerned attitude was shown towards all the places in the world, full of problems at any given moment

I thought Obama wanted to change that foreign policy. The rest of the candy rhetoric about the big bad wolf hiding in the bushes I can get from CNN too. Same old, same old, always a bugbear somewhere. The US army of lovers comes along to save us from the evil in the closet.
I can't take seriously a country that is unable to keep its military for themselves. This pattern was repeated throughout my whole life, and it doesn't seem natural to me, sorry. My prescription: Send some troops to the moon, whenever such urge appears, this may help break the habit. Nobody's going to laugh, I promise. We understand.

Oh, he would ridicule the whole institution from inside, for sure. And illustrate why it's nothing more than a carrot suit job. That is, if he cared to accept, which I doubt. Nobody wants that job much, it's up to country women, very old men and minorities lately - I hope no one gets offended, I really don't mean to do that.
I mean someone they show on TV a lot.

"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together."


-Eisenhower 1961

 

[Satya]

Okay, here's the thing -- we've done the whole 'go in, do something, then pull out without really finishing it because people want "peace"' thing, and it really doesn't work that well. For instance, after the Gulf War, if we had gone in and kicked Saddam out then, we wouldn't have had to do it years later in the Iraqi War. You could say similar things about North Korea.

We need to finish what we start. That whole "pull out for peace!" thing is a lot of hot air from people that feel better about themselves when we stop "killing people." In issues like this, that's far too simple a philosophy -- if we don't finish what we start, things will most likely get worse, and many more may suffer in the future. We could have people, and more specifically soldiers, die in war, or we could have innocents die later because we didn't stop the problem when we could.

If there are known terrorist groups in Afghanistan, leaving them alone is not going to keep them in their own little sphere. America isn't the only one in this conflict, either.

While I agree you also have to consider that each of these situations is unique. Afghanistan is not Iraq or North Korea. If the people there wish to revert back to the Taliban, then there is very little we can do to stop them.

 

[gloomy-optimist]

While I agree you also have to consider that each of these situations is unique. Afghanistan is not Iraq or North Korea. If the people there wish to revert back to the Taliban, then there is very little we can do to stop them.

That's true. We can't stop them. But if they come to pose a threat to the security of the United States, we do have reasons to be concerned.

 

[Billy]

Hahaha his speech was so lackluster... he took credit on Afghanistan for all the crap Bush did without even accrediting him. All Obama has done so far with Afghanistan is ignore it. Now he needs some kind of a win to boost his plummeting poll numbers. Funny he is talking about voting to authorizing war... wasn't he the guy campaigning in the primaries against Hillary saying I am the only one who didn't vote for it? what a lying weasel.