Midlife Crisis

[Norwich]

The midlife crisis is a process that I believe, was first identified by Jung. It typically occurs sometime after forty years of age. Many believe it is in response to the overreaching aspect that the Ego plays in early years.

 

[jn56uytrx]

[FONT=&quot]The midlife crisis is a process that I believe, was first identified by Jung. It typically occurs sometime after forty years of age. Many believe it is in response to the overreaching aspect that the Ego plays in early years.

 

[DrShephard]

I don't think my writing is up to par today, but I wanted to respond. Also, I'm not over 40.

Sometimes I wonder if a midlife crisis is synonymous with an existential crisis. I'd think they have ties that bind them, but maybe they're separate parts of the same "crisis" element. Maybe existential is more abstract, and mid-life is more here-and-now based. Anyway, I think I had several when I was about 24 or so, continuing to my current age. After I got through college and got into the work force, I started looking more at my own life and the underlying nature of it. Once I asked one or two questions and found that there weren't any answers available (questions that people have been asking for centuries), I couldn't just "forget about it and focus on the day to day realities."

While my friends were concerned with how much money they were making, when they'd be able to get a place of their own, how'd they promote, how they'd get through college, what others were thinking about them and how to maintain a positive image in their group of friends, higher ups, and the opposite sex - I started to disconnect and get more focused on the whole context of it all. I started feeling things quite similar to this (starting at 47 seconds):

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERbvKrH-GC4"]YouTube - Music and Life - Alan Watts[/ame]

I started asking abstract questions like:

"If I was born not knowing where I came from, and I'll die without knowing where I'm going, then what does it really matter what I choose to do with my life - whether it be pleasurable or displeasurable to myself or anyone else? Whether anyone approves of it or not?"

"If everyone else was born as unknowing as I was, then why the hell should I respect people with titles under their names and their assertions that certain things are good or evil? Do good and evil even exist? Would good and evil exist in a universe where life didn't exist - where there were only swirling planets and suns? Would the universe think that it would be good or evil if a sun exploded or if it burned forever? Do animals apply to a universal good or evil, if it does exist? If yes, then it's dumb because you can't get mad at a lion for killing a gazelle or an alligator for eating it's own young - it's in it's nature. If no, then are we to say that a man is evil if he is compelled by his nature to do "abnormal" things like kill others or take advantage of others or be cruel or lie? Is it our own subjective interpretation, and the general concensus of feelings about a subject defines the law and rules governing that subject? Well then, what should I do if I'm not IN that general concensus?"

and "If the good life today consists of having these luxuries such as air conditioning, a car, vacations to far away places, stucco'ed walls and aluminum siding, a cell phone, and internet access, does that mean that nobody before the 1900s (or when those things were respectively invented) had good lives, and that they weren't happy? And if they were happy, then why should I or others need them in order to be happy?"

and seriously asking those religious questions that get dismissed like "If God (exists and) is all knowing, all powerful, and all good, then why is there evil, misery, and sorrow in the world?" and "Why did God intervene in the past and speak to people (if he, in fact, did), but he doesn't anymore?" and "Why would God have created us in the first place? What possible reason could he have?" and "If God made me and I am naturally doing things he disapproves of, whether they are subject to my nature (which he created) or the environment that my nature must exist in (which he created), then why the hell would he get mad at me for doing anything at all!"

and the ever-potent unanswered questions like "What am I supposed to be doing here, or is there nothing I'm really "supposed" to be doing?"

And whenever I'd ask other people those sort of questions I got a response similar to when a child incessantly asks "Why?" to get to the point of the base reality behind it all. That is "That's just the way it is!"... or reasoning like "It sucks to be poor!" as if that's the end-all-be-all of it. That doesn't satisfy the mind, however.

Getting to the application point of it all, which may be more along the lines of a mid-life crisis, the question might be "Why the hell have I been following people around and not doing the things I want to do in my life? Why do I have this need for acceptance and social relationships that trumps my ability to do what I want to do? Why have I been living a life that others think is good instead of doing the things I want to do? This is MY life and I should live it the way I want. If that means indulging, taking drastic measures, doing things that others disapprove of but I take great value in, then I should indulge, take drastic measures, and doing things that others disapprove of but I take great value in. But maybe I shouldn't because others won't approve and I'll starve to death."

Hmmm...

 

[KazeCraven]

[MENTION=3454]DrShephard[/MENTION]; I doubt it's the same thing that Norwich is referring to. I can relate easily to what you are experiencing, and I have a ton to say on the subject (for example, I'd argue that good and evil only pertains to humans, not animals, because it seems that humans have free will between the impulse and the action whereas most animals don't). Hell, I'm tempted to start a discussion on it now.

But what Norwich talks about with imbalances is only a minor problem for me that I'm not sure I've quite experienced at the level of a midlife crisis.

 

[Questingpoet]

I guess this thread is right up my alley isn't it as I am 45 and going through big changes that include divorcing? I also agree that the word "crisis" is bad semantics. I don't desire to recapture my youth, do risky things to make me feel more alive, or chase girls young enough to be my daugthers. I like what you've said and how you define it [MENTION=2716]Norwich[/MENTION] . For me, it's about finally becoming the true ME. It's about being totally honest with myself and those around me. And demanding that in my life--honesty. I have come to realize that I don't have time to waste on half-truths and nonsense.

Again, for me, it is about being a little more self centered (not selfish) than I have been in the past. My kids will always be first, but that doesn't mean I live my whole life solely for them and my spouse. No, it's now a time when I look at things and say "I still have time, but I don't have time to be casual or idle anymore." If I want these things in my life I must actively pursue them now. And I've come to realize that its okay to do just that. No more fear, no more guilt.

I've written a lot of good poetry the last year on the subject of change and transformation. I could never have written this stuff 15 years ago. The time of change, of transformation, is upon me now. I'll embrace it and see where it takes me. In the end the only real killer is regret. Regret of what we DON'T do. I'll try not to leave any regrets of that type in my life, and I'll live with the other type as best I can.

 

[Norwich]

The footnote isn't working for me.

The footnote is actually a link to one of the podcasts I was telling you about. John Betts, the speaker, is a Jungian analyst. Maybe I should have done a better job crediting him.

I'm pretty sure I'll pay for my selfishness eventually, but I still had to dance with the devil to know what it felt like.

I've been thinking a lot about the devil since I've been learning about archetypes, particularly the shadow. I think it would be fair to say, that many of us have to do a turn around the dance floor with the devil. I can relate to much of what you've said, but especially this,

I have the sense I have been fighting to give my individual sense of self (ego) voice in the world.

For much of my life I had no sense of boundaries and thus, no real sense self. Instead, I had a list of expectations. I calculated my worth according to how much I was of service to others. Both my husband I have gone through some pretty dramatic changes over the last ten years. The fact that we were able to grow and still remain happily married, is something I recognize as a tremendous gift. I realize many are not so lucky. And for the record, your desire to grow doesn't seem selfish to me.

Maybe the maturity and wisdom of really being willing to sacrifice myself to the greater good will come later.

Do you see sacrifice as necessary? I'm only beginning to learn about Jungian Psychology, but I find one aspect very appealing. It seems that the process of integration calls for gentleness. I wouldn't associate the process with sacrifice, a word that denotes harshness to me. Could it be that I will feel compelled to serve humanity again, probably. But hopefully I will do so from a healthier perspective.

Why did you have to mention the Hagen-Daze?

 

[Norwich]

[MENTION=3454]DrShephard[/MENTION]; loved that video.

Sometimes I wonder if a midlife crisis is synonymous with an existential crisis.

My sense is that a mid life crises can result in an existential crises. But like you experienced, an existential crises can occur at any age. Jung asserted that at mid life a compensatory process tries to balance the influence of the ego with that of the personal unconscious and collective unconscious. Does this occur in an existential crises? I don't know? One thing is for sure, you were grappling with some pretty heavy concepts and questions. Did you find any answers? What do you think was the catalysis that brought you out of that period in your life?

 

[Norwich]

.......for example, I'd argue that good and evil only pertains to humans, not animals, because it seems that humans have free will between the impulse and the action whereas most animals don't). Hell, I'm tempted to start a discussion on it now.

That would be a very interesting thread.

 

[Norton]

Just having turned sixty, I can say that I've never had a mid-life crisis. I'm don't know why I haven't, but it may be because, throughout my life, I've consistently reinvented myself. Every couple of years I've changed, at least to some extent, what I did. I associate mid-life crises with people who choose a particular path and go for it without ever examining and reexamining how they feel about what they chose and how it affects their lives. One day they wake up and say to themselves, "is this all there is?" Or, "does my existence really matter?" I think there is also a sense of panic and vulnerability that comes with the mid-life realization of mortality. Although I've always had a sense of my own mortality, it has become more focused and real as I've aged. When you're in your 20's you can reasonably say that you have 50 or 60 years left. This is certainly not so when you're 60. I think the bottom line is whether you have a sense of meaning in your life. My wife chose one path for her life (she's a physician and researcher) and she hasn't had a mid-life crisis either but her life certainly has had meaning. A good book: Man's Search for Meaning, by Viktor Frankl.

 

[Stu]

D'oh!

...........For me I have been reluctant to embrace the term midlife crises..

I prefer "crisitunity" A Chinese word referred to by Homer Simpson that means both crisis and opportunity

 

[Stu]

During our life we repeat a cycle of ego inflation and ego alienation. During inflation our ego over identifies with the power of the Self, assuming that power is its own. This is followed by ego alienation, where the ego finds itself cut off from the power of the Self, alienated from it.

at midlife crisitunity the cycle can be broken through the development of a healthier ego-Self axis. Of course this is an irrational process but is centered around previously un-integrated unconscious stuff attaining a degree of consciousness.

This comes at the expense of the ego which needs to relinquish its delusional omnipotence and become a referee for the integration process. None of this is easy, and all of it can be expedited by an understanding of the process, and a way to engage the unconscious material.

 

[shannishannon]

hmm. I think I have crises, not just a single mislife crisis. (sic). Such crisis I think, if resolved, leads to less ego involvement in general, and for me in particular empowerment. I no longer care what others think, I plot my own course. I can look over a lifetime, my lifetime, and see what decisions, good or bad, have led me to this point. I have the confidence to lead by example. In short, my mislife crisis freed me to be myself.

 

[Stu]

Again, for me, it is about being a little more self centered (not selfish) than I have been in the past. My kids will always be first, but that doesn't mean I live my whole life solely for them and my spouse. No, it's now a time when I look at things and say "I still have time, but I don't have time to be casual or idle anymore." If I want these things in my life I must actively pursue them now. And I've come to realize that its okay to do just that. No more fear, no more guilt.
.

Tread carefully, make sure the baby is not in the bathwater when you toss it out.

 

[jn56uytrx]

Why did you have to mention the Hagen-Daze?

It was on my mind because I had a tub of special blueberry crumble version in my refrigerator calling to me that night. Don't worry, I answered the call.

Thanks for this thread and for the insight provided.

I agree with your assessment of sacrifice; the word can have an association of harshness to it. It makes sense that a true experience of integration would likely be a gentle and accepting process.

 

[Emjay]

I am 43 but no midlife crisis at this stage. Is this because I wasted most of my youth trying to figure myself out? I don't know. I've always been very introspective and spent a lot of time trying to work out who I am and what I should be doing.

As I've gotten older, I seem to have settled into my skin a bit more whereas my sister who has previously been very confident and self assured is definitely going through that kind of crisis. She has the added complication of a child reaching adulthood and leaving home - the relationship has changed and it is hard for her. I am at a different stage of life, having two young children so perhaps my midlife crisis will hit when I'm in my 60s. I always was a late bloomer. =)

 

[Stu]

............... It makes sense that a true experience of integration would likely be a gentle and accepting process.

kinda like giving birth

 

[jn56uytrx]

kinda like giving birth

Hmmm...all my children were born c-section.

Perhaps I don't have the best frame of reference for this process?

 

[Gaze]

I am 43 but no midlife crisis at this stage. Is this because I wasted most of my youth trying to figure myself out? I don't know. I've always been very introspective and spent a lot of time trying to work out who I am and what I should be doing.

interesting point. i'm wondering if the lack of midlife crisis is similar to what you and @Norton have indicated, is that there isn't one because they've developed a level of self awareness or comfort level with change over the years so that you don't experience huge crisis moments as you get older because you've been allowed to live and be who you choose to be as a matter of choice. I think midlife crises occur and would be harder, I assume, for someone who has had to maintain a particular role or responsibility out of necessity for long periods of time, sometimes out of duty or obligation, rather than choice. So, it seems the midlife crisis becomes the chance to rediscover the self which has been buried over the years in work, family, or other responsibilities.

 

[KazeCraven]

It feels like I've been working at the level of a midlife crisis for the past couple of years. If anything, I'll have a reverse midlife crisis where I realize I've wasted my time trying to figure out what I should do with my life. It certainly hasn't been a waste so far, but if I don't come back down that could change.

 

[Stu]

love quoting myself

kinda like giving birth

".....every psychic advance of man arises from the suffering of the soul" CG Jung collected works 11 paragraph 497
" suffering by itself is of no value. It is only consciously accepted, meaningful suffering which extracts the redeeming fluid. It is the willing endurance of the opposites within oneself, the acceptence of one's shadow, rather than indulging in the cheap way out by projecting it onto others, which brings transformation." Edinger Ego and Archetype pg 259