Men: how would you describe being a "modern" man today?

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Men: how would you describe being a "modern" man today?


How do you think age, culture, beliefs, norms, etc. factor in?
 
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great thread as usual Anita

some men feel that the pressures of their masculinity are overwhelming. i think that sometimes there is an expectation of denial or suppression of emotion, or occasionally a stereotyping of men as typically dominant, aggressive, abuser. and some menfind it difficult to negotiate these things in their social projection of self. not that the difficulties of this experience are measurable to the difficulties of female experience.

but these are just a couple of throwaway ideas. and i'm not sure i'm really qualified to give this perspective as i may not be a man. i think i'm more of an hermaphrodite.
 
invisible said:
great thread as usual Anita

some men feel that the pressures of their masculinity are overwhelming. i think that sometimes there is an expectation of denial or suppression of emotion, or occasionally a stereotyping of men as typically dominant, aggressive, abuser. and some menfind it difficult to negotiate these things in their social projection of self.
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thx, and i agree.
 
As an ideal?
 
Anita said:
I was hoping to get a sense of the way women today would describe what it means to be a woman, from a personal perspective since each person will probably have different or unique perspectives, rather than assuming that we all think, feel, or understand things the same simply because we are women.
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Assuming you want the same for here as there...

F#@$ing confusing by double standards and various expectations that can change by location to who in the group of people... I'm too forward... too laid back... make up you mind!

An example of this would be holding a door open... at this point I do this for everyone and anyone save if I'm late for something. I've been thanked and called a chauvinist and quite a few things in between.
 
Probly 'cause I'm still young... but I find the world almost stifling in how much it almost demonizes much of manhood.

Not likely an answer you're going to get from most INFJs...but probably just because I have the detached/calm/emotionless part of it down pretty naturally, so I don't feel forced into those stereotypes at all. I think I can make my case for it, though.

Skim through the TV and look at any male figures in most shows. At least a few years back (I haven't watched much tv, besides anime, in a long while), if it was a family sitcom it was almost guaranteed that the dad was some sort of bumbling screw-up, while his wife held everything together. The Homer Simpsons, Peter Griffins, Tim Taylors, and Ray... Ray... damnit, I can't remember his last name, but the guy from Everybody Loves Raymond, fill the airwaves with bumbling incompetence and virtually always have to apologize to their wives (who never seem to make any mistakes) constantly. I know there are a few other shows like this too, but I can't remember their names anymore. It was extraordinarily annoying, though.

Parents and schools also seemed extremely anti-aggression. My elementary school adminstration seemed to pour all their attention into trying to make school a nice/"safe from bullies" atmosphere--not that they were great at it, of course, but that was kind of their stated goal. We were also told pretty much always (by faculty and parents) that violence was never a proper answer. Sports are also looked at as a kind of stereotypically "dumb" thing to do. Even though professional athletes make more money than almost every other profession, it's kind of engrained into our minds (an an episode of Fresh Prince of Bel Air comes to mind) that people should only use their athletic ability to help pay for college, where they can get their education and therefore have something that's actually "valuable"--because physical shape or skills just aren't worth anything for whatever reason. Similarly, a lot of the "typically immature/dumb" things that people do for fun get attached as stereotypes for men, even when there's nothing particularly masculine about it. At least, it's always seemed like that to me. A good example of this would be binge drinking, which sticks out in my mind as a general frat-guy stereotype, although I can't figure out why. From what I've seen, I'm pretty sure both sexes enjoy a good drunken outing in roughly equal proportions.


If I were to be honest.... I think this traces back to the days where women virtually always stayed at home and raised the kids, in centuries past. Without the balance, kids were taught feminine values, which they then taught to their kids, etc. The reason I started this post with "might just be because I'm young" is because my parents held onto treating me like a child faaaar past my time, and as a general rule men don't like being confined. So some of the (probably pretty clear by this point, if you're still reading) resentment I have over this is because my desire for adventure and some danger has largely been squished under the "gotta keep him safe, because that's a parents' duty" sentiment--and I do think that restless/adventurous spirit is a typically male thing to have. So keeping a child safe by denying them choices stifles young men in two ways.

So coming from a youngish male who grew up in a safety-first home in a country that seems to idolize dealing with things in a feminine way, I would describe being a modern man as: highly frustrating.


also: I don't think we've talked much, but this is a really nice thread. I'm pretty amazed with all the unique discussion topics I've seen you bring up in all my time here.
 
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Kavalan said:
Assuming you want the same for here as there...

F#@$ing confusing by double standards and various expectations that can change by location to who in the group of people... I'm too forward... too laid back... make up you mind!
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Agree. there are waaaaaaaay too many mixed messages especially for men today. Be expressive and more emotionally intelligent but you can't be too emotional, or you'll seem weak. I mean, where do you draw the line? And isn't it up to the individual what's a great quality and what's not? Sometimes, the qualities society considers weaknesses, others find very attractive.



frozen_water said:
Probly 'cause I'm still young... but I find the world almost stifling in how much it almost demonizes much of manhood.

Not likely an answer you're going to get from most INFJs...but probably just because I have the detached/calm/emotionless part of it down pretty naturally, so I don't feel forced into those stereotypes at all. I think I can make my case for it, though.

Skim through the TV and look at any male figures in most shows. At least a few years back (I haven't watched much tv, besides anime, in a long while), if it was a family sitcom it was almost guaranteed that the dad was some sort of bumbling screw-up, while his wife held everything together. The Homer Simpsons, Peter Griffins, Tim Taylors, and Ray... Ray... damnit, I can't remember his last name, but the guy from Everybody Loves Raymond, fill the airwaves with bumbling incompetence and virtually always have to apologize to their wives (who never seem to make any mistakes) constantly. I know there are a few other shows like this too, but I can't remember their names anymore. It was extraordinarily annoying, though.

Parents and schools also seemed extremely anti-aggression. My elementary school adminstration seemed to pour all their attention into trying to make school a nice/"safe from bullies" atmosphere--not that they were great at it, of course, but that was kind of their stated goal. We were also told pretty much always (by faculty and parents) that violence was never a proper answer. Sports are also looked at as a kind of stereotypically "dumb" thing to do. Even though professional athletes make more money than almost every other profession, it's kind of engrained into our minds (an an episode of Fresh Prince of Bel Air comes to mind) that people should only use their athletic ability to help pay for college, where they can get their education and therefore have something that's actually "valuable"--because physical shape or skills just aren't worth anything for whatever reason. Similarly, a lot of the "typically immature/dumb" things that people do for fun get attached as stereotypes for men, even when there's nothing particularly masculine about it. At least, it's always seemed like that to me. A good example of this would be binge drinking, which sticks out in my mind as a general frat-guy stereotype, although I can't figure out why. From what I've seen, I'm pretty sure both sexes enjoy a good drunken outing in roughly equal proportions.


If I were to be honest.... I think this traces back to the days where women virtually always stayed at home and raised the kids, in centuries past. Without the balance, kids were taught feminine values, which they then taught to their kids, etc. The reason I started this post with "might just be because I'm young" is because my parents held onto treating me like a child faaaar past my time, and as a general rule men don't like being confined. So some of the (probably pretty clear by this point, if you're still reading) resentment I have over this is because my desire for adventure and some danger has largely been squished under the "gotta keep him safe, because that's a parents' duty" sentiment--and I do think that restless/adventurous spirit is a typically male thing to have. So keeping a child safe by denying them choices stifles young men in two ways.

So coming from a youngish male who grew up in a safety-first home in a country that seems to idolize dealing with things in a feminine way, I would describe being a modern man as: highly frustrating.


also: I don't think we've talked much, but this is a really nice thread. I'm pretty amazed with all the unique discussion topics I've seen you bring up in all my time here.
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Good post
 
I actually had an interesting conversation with a friend who works in the same type of field as I do about this topic, and we came to the conclusion that younger males have a much harder time of it, especially in their young adulthood. young women find it much easier to talk about their feelings and bring up issues such as abuse. However many young men feel afraid to bring up issues of violence or abuse because they fear they will not appear man enough, or that other people will not take it seriously.

Traditionally, women were raised to be the homemakers while the men were raised for going to war, and doing dangerous jobs and so on, and even though most boys aren't raised for that anymore, some aspect of those personas still remain.
 
I've always felt like I belonged to an older age.

I could have been a desert dweller, a seafarer, a pioneer, a sailor.

I want to explore, I want to live a life in harmony with nature. I want to have a happy, strong, loving, family. I'm old fashioned in this modern age.

Seems hard to find people with deeply felt ideals.
Nearly everyone sold out.

I'm stuck here with all these crazy zombie people.

We are surrounded by madness. It dominates our lives.

Modern man is a ridiculous predicament.

We are all horribly frustrated.

Powers beyond our control impact us in such a profound way.

I wish I could have control of it all.
 
myself said:
I've always felt like I belonged to an older age.

I could have been a desert dweller, a seafarer, a pioneer, a sailor.

I want to explore, I want to live a life in harmony with nature. I want to have a happy, strong, loving, family. I'm old fashioned in this modern age.

Seems hard to find people with deeply felt ideals.
Nearly everyone sold out.

I'm stuck here with all these crazy zombie people.

We are surrounded by madness. It dominates our lives.

Modern man is a ridiculous predicament.

We are all horribly frustrated.

Powers beyond our control impact us in such a profound way.

I wish I could have control of it all.
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Word

There is no modern man we have been castrated all while being told we aren't man enough. God knows I don't even know what being a man is anymore. We are expected to be both female and male to do everything. To walk an impossible tight rope and none of us really succeeded some just fail less.

And I agree with what everyone else has said.

Men have suffered in silence been belittled by women and told we aren't what everyone wants but we are all begging, screaming, longing to know what we are supposed to be and what people really need us to be. But we are being punished as if to say well you didn't figure out soon enough so your screwed.
 
Secrecy and/or privacy.


To be a modern man is to enjoy being male with some discretion - that is, without manifesting it, except in the right company.
 
Am I a modern man, are we all modern men?

I would like to think that we are brought up in interesting time. Personally I would like to upgrade my modern man boots for a stronger resolve and a bit of determinism too, and a healthier body as well oh and stronger social skills and more earning income capabilities.
 
Confusing and powerful. Stereotypically men hold the "power", and god knows we still do. Economics, politics, business; it's mostly men. We get the good end of the stick when it comes to things like wages and what not, but at the same time "manhood" doesn't come without its challenges. I think the youngest boys are going to be facing the most challenges. We're finally starting to reach an age where men are free to express feelings and other human things, but at the same time many role models for young boys do not. They get movies, shows, and games where violence is the key. The good guy will beat the shit out of you, he won't hug you do death.

Who are these boys supposed to look up to? The overly sappy and dramatized men in comedy-dramas, or the bull-headed-guns-blazing action heroes? As boys are still being told that feelings are a weakness, they are also told that things like sports and natural aggression are evil. Men still have a ways to go to finish up this juggling act on what it means to be a "man" and larger a human. Women are starting to blur the lines between what was once stereotypically womanly and manly, now it's the males' turn. We have two highly contrasting ends of the spectrum, it's time to find the middle ground.
 
mf said:
Confusing and powerful. Stereotypically men hold the "power", and god knows we still do. Economics, politics, business; it's mostly men. We get the good end of the stick when it comes to things like wages and what not, but at the same time "manhood" doesn't come without its challenges. I think the youngest boys are going to be facing the most challenges. We're finally starting to reach an age where men are free to express feelings and other human things, but at the same time many role models for young boys do not. They get movies, shows, and games where violence is the key. The good guy will beat the shit out of you, he won't hug you do death.

Who are these boys supposed to look up to? The overly sappy and dramatized men in comedy-dramas, or the bull-headed-guns-blazing action heroes? As boys are still being told that feelings are a weakness, they are also told that things like sports and natural aggression are evil. Men still have a ways to go to finish up this juggling act on what it means to be a "man" and larger a human. Women are starting to blur the lines between what was once stereotypically womanly and manly, now it's the males' turn. We have two highly contrasting ends of the spectrum, it's time to find the middle ground.
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It does seem to be going in that direction, doesn't it? I wonder if in the future gender roles will be completely obliterated, and society will move towards a pure meritocracy.
 
April said:
It does seem to be going in that direction, doesn't it? I wonder if in the future gender roles will be completely obliterated, and society will move towards a pure meritocracy.
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I sure hope they become obliterated in the future. Not because I want every guy to be a "nancy-boy" or every woman to be "butch", just so people can start being the way they want to be without having to feel bad or conflicted about it.
 
while these ideas are gaining circulation, what is expressed on this forums might constitute a slightly more progressive-thinking subsection of society than what is the norm. i think there are some pretty powerful, massive traditionalist movements going around, maybe even a resurgence. parenting is valuable so stay at home and raise the baby: your entire life!! it might take a while.
 
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