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MBTI Misconceptions

Discussion in 'Psychology and MBTI' started by Quinlan, Jan 27, 2009.

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  1. VH

    VH Variable Hybrid

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    MBTI:
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    T Computer
    F Animal

    T + F = Human J Function

    Computers do have some degree of an Fe component, in this analogy. They have a strong inclination to make things how they 'feel' they should be. In fact, there is no arguing with them. Te would always be open to the possibility of alteration. Computers have to have their paradigms (programs) forcibly altered in order to change. However, computers are a good example of something that people interact with frequently that has a high degree of similarity to a pure T function.

    Animals have a degree of Te and Ti functions, in reality, to greater degrees as they develop intelligence. You can train them, and to a fair extent teach them language. They're also able to figure out how things work and exploit those understandings. However[/size][SIZE=Default], animals are a good example of something that people interact with frequently that has a high degree of similarity to a pure F function.
    [/size]
    As I mentioned, these are great analogies and will do wonders to describe through example. They're just not 100% scientifically accurate, but then neither is saying that the sky is blue. They do a great job of getting the point across.

    Kudos!
     
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  2. VH

    VH Variable Hybrid

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    The P functions work exactly the same as the J functions being a whole process made up of 4 functions.

    Ni + Ne + Si + Se = P

    Each individual prefers one of those functions in the use of their P function, but uses all of them.

    To take the cognitive process to its conclusion, the J and P functions work together exactly the same as they work on their own, with the individual preferring one or the other of the functions. They are both used at the same time, and all parts are used together to form the whole process of cognition.

    J + P = Cognition

    Therefore

    Ni + Ne + Si + Se + Fi + Fe + Ti + Te = Cognition

    ...with each individual having preferences in the overall order of those functions, which are all used at the same time. This is what the MBTI bases its assumptions of personality type upon. When the MBTI/Jung say that an INFJ is Ni Fe, they are stating that while using the cognitive functions, the individual uses all of their functions, but has a preference toward Ni and Fe.

    It's like saying "This one leans a little to the left, or that one leans a little to the front, but all of them stand up straight enough that they don't fall over." The biggest misconception of the MBTI is that in this analogy, each type is not standing but instead laying on the floor pointed exactly in one of 16 directions. That's simply not the case. The MBTI is a measure of the slight differences in how we all stand and move.
     
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    #82 VH, Apr 7, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2009
  3. arbygil

    arbygil Passing through

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    It's our bent. :m037:
     
  4. Syzygy

    Syzygy Newbie

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    Von Hase, thank you for replying.

    So, what's the point of separating cognition into J and P? Is grouping the T, F, i, e elements and the N, S, i, e elements into separate groups one of the reasons?

    By the way, from the few posts that I have in this thread, can you tell which type I am?
     
  5. VH

    VH Variable Hybrid

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    The reason to break them down is to distinguish between J and P, and each of the functions therein to determine preference.

    You are an INTP. Your Ti is strong, as you have a need to know how things work. You also focus on the possibilities in pattern recognition, Ne as a secondary preference.
     
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  6. Milon

    Milon Director of Glomps
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    Here's another thought I'm tossing out for refinement:

    MBTI uses a lot of verbage without redefining it, giving rise to much confusion. Might it be better to say that T is Concrete-Judging and F is Abstract-Judging, and S is Concrete-Perceiving and N is Abstract-Perceiving? This way cognition is interpreted in terms of internal/external abstract/concrete judging/perceiving, rather than a mess of poorly defined terms.
     
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  7. rainrise

    rainrise Community Member

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    yes that definately makes the functions clearer for me
     
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  8. poetrygirl

    poetrygirl Community Member

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    It tells you how you think ,but not what you think.
     
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  9. Kastor

    Kastor Newbie

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    It's probably been said a million times, but I hate the stereotype that all INFPs are fluffy, teddy bear-like people :m051:
     
  10. Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    Aww, isn't that cute :m170:
     
  11. acd

    acd Well-known member

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    Hah. That's funny.
    I've been called 'stoic' and 'stern.'
     
  12. VH

    VH Variable Hybrid

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    I think this is a good description.

    The MBTI is an indicator, not a definer. It points you in the direction of your type, but does not give a definitive result. The MBTI is also prone mistyping the P and J axis for introverts. The entire test is based on very good psychological science, but was never meant to be a demonstrative instrument. Just a ballpark tool. Confusion will arise with it.

    As far as each function group, I would say...

    T is concerned with what is correct, logically and analytically.
    F is concerned with what is right, philosophically and emotionally.
    S percieves the world as it is and was.
    N percieves the world as it could be and will be.
     
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  13. TaylorS

    TaylorS Community Member

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    Excellent description of Fe and Fi! I was mistyped as INTP for a long time exactly because of the misconceptions surrounding Fe. The misconceptions and the BS way F-vs.-T questions on online personality tests are worded lead me to think that an individual with Asperger's Syndrome like myself (*waves at poster who mentioned high functioning autistic kids with high IQs, LOL!* :D ) couldn't have a high preference for Fe, WRONG!

    When I figured out that I had Ni and not Ne I then assumed that I was INTJ, but it just didn't fit, my use of T is very much in the form of Ti, Te is actually my Achilles' heel (IMO a lot of FJs score as FPs or TPs on many online tests because the "J" answers on such tests describe TJs), I can supervise things on a personal level but I could never be a manager of the paper-shuffling kind. It was how I reacted when I learned that a physically disabled friend/co-worker of mine was raped that my auxilary Fe became blindingly obvious (I was seriously ready to punch another coworker, an ISTJ with Asperger's, who kept telling her "just quit thinking about what happened").
     
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  14. TaylorS

    TaylorS Community Member

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    I agree. And shows why the thinking-feeling labels are misleading, all 4 judging functions are forms of thinking. Better labels would be Fact-based thinking and Value-based thinking.

    More precisely...

    Te: Logic
    Ti: Coherence
    Fe: Relation
    Fi: Sentiment
     
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  15. meanlittlechimp

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    You're a woman right? My female ESTP friend used to cry often.

    I could never imagine my male ESTP friends doing so. Not to say they don't get just as emotional on occasion, they often can exhibit extreme joy or anger, but they would never cry like a bitch (their words).
     
    #95 meanlittlechimp, Aug 27, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2009
  16. Julia

    Julia Community Member

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    From what I understand about MBTI, "Feeling" is not equivalent to emotion, but has more to do with considering subjective data and perspectives. T is associated with requiring empirical evidence, while F is comfortable in the realm of fuzzy data.

    Every brain is hardwired for emotion, and the way people relate to their emotional responses and how they integrate their emotional systems into the whole of their minds is a far more complex issue than a single contrasting pole could accurately represent.

    I find the T-F poles potentially problematic when they imply that a person who tests as a T has a kind of objectivity as part of their personal identity and the person who tests as an F is primarily reliant on emotional responses. I've seen these assumptions distort communication and perception to a degree that is impressive.
     
  17. Amaranth44

    Amaranth44 Newbie

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    I have only been able to skim through most posts, I will get a chance to read more thoroughly later on. As an INFJ, I am curious between the main differences between injf and infp. Sorry if this isn't the main topic right now, but I think these two types can often get confused when using the MBTI. I have always tested as an INFJ, and the description fits me to a tee. One thing I find confusing though is that people often will say INFJs are always extremely organized and are never late. However I wouldn't say that J implicates this completely does it? I can be very organized in aspects involving my work and school, but very disorganized with day to day nuances.
    I may not be as knowledgeable as many in this forum as I'm still learning about this. Hopefully someone can explain the main difference between INFJ and INFP?
     
    #97 Amaranth44, Aug 30, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2009
  18. sassafras

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    Here's the thread that might help.
     
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  19. meanlittlechimp

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    I would think this true for both IXTJs; with EXTJs being the second worse group.

    I think this is the single biggest misperception of MBTI. It makes many smart, intellectually curious, accomplished Sensors mistype themselves as Intuitives. If you try to turn a sensor onto MBTI and hand them random MBTI book; the insulting tone implied in most descriptions is obvious.

    I always describe it to them rather than handing them a book saying they should pursue plumbing as a career, because I guarantee most of the professionals in engineering. law, medicine etc, are Sensors and not Intuitives.
     
  20. Julia

    Julia Community Member

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    That's just another example of the little ironies people are often prone toward inventing for some reason. It is of course short-sighted and unintelligent to have that level of prejudicial thinking and is exactly what the iNtuitive is assuming to be the flaw of the Sensor.

    Another misconception with MBTI is that it is scientific or factual. It is an interesting idea, but not falsifiable and not close to being scientific or factual. MBTI has created some fascinating social phenomenon both in its corporate application where people are tested, labeled and then decisions are made about their employment, to the internet communities that form hard-edged prejudices about various types like the ones you describe above. The National Academy of Sciences tested the validity of MBTI and found that only the E-I axis had enough consistency in testing to have any validity. (I can dig up the links as necessary). The testing was done in response to the increased popularity of using MBTI to make employment decisions.

    The ironies that emerge from the system are an interesting aspect of it where you have iNtuitives without the insight to see variation in people and Thinkers who lack the objectivity to see the system for what it is. It is a great way to measure projection since often people define their own limitations through their descriptions of the other group they consider as lesser beings. Edit: The subjective nature of the system has fuzzy boundaries, so placing hard boundaries on the system and concluding these as fact makes little sense. The writings of Kiersey are rather flattering to the Thinker, and so I suspect that has something to do with the intensity of how some people embrace it as absolute.
     
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