It's supposedly Constitutional, BUT

[acd]

I listened to him and I'm still taking it in. He condemned Trump for inciting 1/6/21 but stated he did not agree that impeachment was the right venue to deal with him. If this had happened while Trump still had more time in office, he'd have voted to convict him.

Bill Cassidy and Richard Burr changing their mind to convict was really surprising.

 

[Roses In The Vineyard]

you will never convince a trumper of anything but trumpism. . it's like trying to teach a pig to sing. . it frustrates you and irritates the pig

 

[just me]

They are using democracy as a weapon against people who disagree with them politically. They claim that since they were elected it’s all legit because they were voted for. It’s sad when both political party’s forget who they work for. And turn their back’s on the very people they are supposed to represent. I have not heard one of these public servants ask themselves if maybe they caused the capitol riots by their actions. If they are at fault for putting people out of business with their COVID-19. Our very own govt gave them money to do “studies” on the COVID-19 strain. They are they problem. And yet you defend cowards and liars. You vote for cowards and liars. It’s you the in educated voters that have ruined this country. And when your successful getting rid of your adversaries then you will begin the work on getting rid of yourselves. I recommend reading agenda 21 or agenda 2030. Go look it up it’s on the United Nations website. These globalists are real. Their takeover of the world economy is real. And as we have all seen with Obiden he’s cozy with the Chinese. And why do we need Chinese goods? Why not make it here? Why not put people to work? This downward spiral has been happening my whole life. Year by year things get worse and worse. And because it gets worse they need to pass new laws. They are making it worse so they can have control. The Germans did the same things to their political opposition. And when the citizens were stirred up with their own anger they unleashed it on their fellow citizens. We are here now. And we are guilty of the same actions. And yet because humans make exceptions for their own behaviors they never have to be accountable for their actions. But you who has been deemed less than because of your thoughts needs to be re educated. I thought Infjs could sense when the cheese was going sour. That they could look at a situation and see the forest from the trees. Guess not.

@efromm , What an amazing post.

 

[Reason]

@Reason

Bravo! You were very busy in this thread! I'm glad you're not eventhorizon.

 

[Reason]

Well, the fact remains that constitutional law scholars don't agree with you. So the bar is pretty high is you intend to demonstrate that they are wrong.

Scholars interpreting what isn't there. Assuming that you can impeach to remove from office someone who is already out of office...

"I don't know if the world is run by evil geniuses who are putting us on or idiots who really mean it"

that's an hour and ten minuets to get a reaction from the defense secretary on a violent mob attacking the US capitol? And that's not Trump's doing? Are you high?

The defense Secretary messed up therefore it's a coup by the president? This is weak tea.

 

[Reason]

I believe during the trial it was established that Trump would have been responsible because attacking the Capitol is a federal problem. It was also touched on that the Governor did not have jurisdiction in this situation. I did not see that being contested.

Then how did the governor deploy the Virginia national guard? Also according to the Pentagon Trump gave approval to use the national guard not after, but 3 days before the 6th. Is the Pentagon lying?

 

[SpecialEdition]

Then how did the governor deploy the Virginia national guard? Also according to the Pentagon Trump gave approval to use the national guard not after, but 3 days before the 6th. Is the Pentagon lying?

"The D.C National Guard was formed in 1802 by President Thomas Jefferson to defend the newly created District of Columbia. As such, the Commanding General of the D.C. National Guard is subordinate solely to the President of the United States. This authority to activate the D.C. National Guard has been delegated, by the President, to the Secretary of Defense and further delegated to the Secretary of the Army. The D.C. National Guard is the only National Guard unit, out of all of the 54 states and territories, which reports only to the President. "
From the D.C. National Guard's website: https://dc.ng.mil/About-Us/

This article has a timeline that I found informative and touches on your question about deploying the National Guard from Virginia:
https://www.npr.org/2021/01/15/9568...eline-of-security-at-the-capitol-on-january-6

As to Trump approving use of the National Guard - do you mean the ones that were requested by the Mayor and allowed to act to control the flow of traffic but weren't allowed to act as law enforcement?

 

[SpecialEdition]

They are using democracy as a weapon against people who disagree with them politically. They claim that since they were elected it’s all legit because they were voted for. It’s sad when both political party’s forget who they work for. And turn their back’s on the very people they are supposed to represent. I have not heard one of these public servants ask themselves if maybe they caused the capitol riots by their actions. If they are at fault for putting people out of business with their COVID-19. Our very own govt gave them money to do “studies” on the COVID-19 strain. They are they problem. And yet you defend cowards and liars. You vote for cowards and liars. It’s you the in educated voters that have ruined this country. And when your successful getting rid of your adversaries then you will begin the work on getting rid of yourselves. I recommend reading agenda 21 or agenda 2030. Go look it up it’s on the United Nations website. These globalists are real. Their takeover of the world economy is real. And as we have all seen with Obiden he’s cozy with the Chinese. And why do we need Chinese goods? Why not make it here? Why not put people to work? This downward spiral has been happening my whole life. Year by year things get worse and worse. And because it gets worse they need to pass new laws. They are making it worse so they can have control. The Germans did the same things to their political opposition. And when the citizens were stirred up with their own anger they unleashed it on their fellow citizens. We are here now. And we are guilty of the same actions. And yet because humans make exceptions for their own behaviors they never have to be accountable for their actions. But you who has been deemed less than because of your thoughts needs to be re educated. I thought Infjs could sense when the cheese was going sour. That they could look at a situation and see the forest from the trees. Guess not.

@efromm , What an amazing post.

I can't answer all of these questions but I can tell you why things can't be made domestically. If anyone wants a little lesson in International Trade, this is for you.

The cost of goods to produce in North America is astronomical. Let's use screws for example. Companies will buy screws overseas because they're cheaper. Even after you take in freight, duties, taxes, anti-dumping fees, customs clearance fees, end delivery, etc, it's STILL cheaper to buy overseas. In Canada for example, there is a 170% SIMA charge on screws which means $25000.00 of screws is now $42500 in screws. It's STILL cheaper to buy internationally. Just like when Trump tried to slap tariffs on everything. It DOES NOT WORK. For someone who claims to know the art of the deal he really fucked up. Bad.

Generally speaking, the manufacturing overseas is more advanced than in North America in many cases as well. The infrastructure they have in place to support creating the tooling to meet customer specifications is just better than what can be offered here. They can do it faster, and they can do it for less money.

In order to bring some of this production home, the amount of up front investment would be significant. Beyond what I think most people understand. Not only do the factories have to be built (or re-opened) but all of the machinery and equipment used for production would have to be designed, built, bought and installed. Finding skilled labourers who are able to do this and then produce the required product also costs a lot of money. Having employees is very expensive. Just the basic business costs are massive (rent, utilities, etc). Then we get into the marketing and the sales - this all costs a lot of money as well and it's not even guaranteed that other American businesses will buy the goods produced in America because again, the price is significantly higher. Business is about the bottom line and if they can get something cheaper from overseas they're going to do it.

This is just the reality of international trade. Buying things that are completely domestic is a nice idea but it is absolutely unrealistic. I understand the sentiment. I don't believe it will ever happen.

My whole career is international trade and I have seen negotiations between domestic and international suppliers. I see what overseas suppliers charge to clients. I know what the actual cost of the trade is. The fact that politicians try to run on this is perpetuating a lie that buying everything domestically is possible. If businesses want to be competitive domestically and internationally they are in a position where they actually don't have a choice.

 

[Reason]

"The D.C National Guard was formed in 1802 by President Thomas Jefferson to defend the newly created District of Columbia. As such, the Commanding General of the D.C. National Guard is subordinate solely to the President of the United States. This authority to activate the D.C. National Guard has been delegated, by the President, to the Secretary of Defense and further delegated to the Secretary of the Army. The D.C. National Guard is the only National Guard unit, out of all of the 54 states and territories, which reports only to the President. "
From the D.C. National Guard's website: https://dc.ng.mil/About-Us/

This article has a timeline that I found informative and touches on your question about deploying the National Guard from Virginia:
https://www.npr.org/2021/01/15/9568...eline-of-security-at-the-capitol-on-january-6

As to Trump approving use of the National Guard - do you mean the ones that were requested by the Mayor and allowed to act to control the flow of traffic but weren't allowed to act as law enforcement?

This timeline is intended to memorialize the planning and execution efforts of the Department of
Defense to address the Violent Attack at the U.S. Capitol on January 6, 2021.
The timeline is as follows:
Thursday, December 31, 2020 (New Year’s Eve)
• Mayor Muriel Bowser and Dr. Christopher Rodriguez, D.C. Director of Homeland Security
and Emergency Management Agency, deliver a written request for D.C. National Guard
(DCNG) support to D.C. Metro Police Department (MPD) and Fire and Emergency Service.
Saturday, January 2, 2021
• The Acting Secretary of Defense (A/SD) confers with the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of
Staff (CJCS) and the Secretary of the Army (SECARMY) on the Mayor’s written request.
Sunday, January 3, 2021
• DoD confirms with U.S. Capitol Police (USCP) that there is no request for DoD support.
• A/SD meets with select Cabinet Members to discuss DoD support to law enforcement
agencies and potential requirements for DoD support.
• A/SD and CJCS meet with the President. President concurs in activation of the DCNG to
support law enforcement.
Monday, January 4, 2021
• USCP confirms there is no requirement for DoD support in a phone call with SECARMY.
• The A/SD, in consultation with CJCS, SECARMY, and DoD General Counsel (GC), reviews
the Department’s plan to be prepared to provide support to civil authorities, if asked, and
approves activation of 340 members of the DCNG to support Mayor Bowser’s request.
o Support provided in response to Mayor Bowser’s request includes support at:
 Traffic Control Points: 90 personnel (180 total/2 shifts); Metro station
support: 24 personnel (48 total/2 shifts); Weapons of Mass Destruction Civil
Support Team: 20 personnel; and Internal Command and Control: 52
personnel.
o A/SD also authorizes SECARMY to deploy a Quick Reaction Force (40 personnel
staged at Joint Base Andrews) if additional support is requested by civil authorities.
Tuesday, January 5, 2021
• Mayor Bowser delivers a letter addressed to the Acting Attorney General, A/SD, and
SECARMY confirming that there are no additional support requirements from the D.C.
• 255 DCNG arrive in D.C. and begin to manage traffic control points alongside local law
enforcement.
Wednesday, January 6, 2021
0830: A/SD and CJCS review DoD plan to support law enforcement agencies and request an
exercise regarding DoD contingency response options.
1130: A/SD participates in table-top exercise regarding DoD contingency response options.
1305: A/SD receives open source reports of demonstrator movements to U.S. Capitol.
1326: USCP orders evacuation of Capitol complex.
1334: SECARMY phone call with Mayor Bowser in which Mayor Bowser communicates
request for unspecified number of additional forces.
1349: Commanding General, DCNG, Walker phone call with USCP Chief Sund. Chief Sund
communicates request for immediate assistance.
1422: SECARMY phone call with D.C. Mayor, Deputy Mayor, Dr. Rodriguez, and MPD
leadership to discuss the current situation and to request additional DCNG support.
1430: A/SD, CJCS, and SECARMY meet to discuss USCP and Mayor Bowser’s requests.
1500: A/SD determines all available forces of the DCNG are required to reinforce MPD and
USCP positions to support efforts to reestablish security of the Capitol complex.
1500: SECARMY directs DCNG to prepare available Guardsmen to move from the armory to
the Capitol complex, while seeking formal approval from A/SD for deployment. DCNG
prepares to move 150 personnel to support USCP, pending A/SD’s approval.
1504: A/SD, with advice from CJCS, DoD GC, the Chief of the National Guard Bureau
(CNGB), SECARMY, and the Chief of Staff of the Army, provides verbal approval of the
full activation of DCNG (1100 total) in support of the MPD. Immediately upon A/SD
approval, Secretary McCarthy directs DCNG to initiate movement and full mobilization.
In response, DCNG redeployed all soldiers from positions at Metro stations and all
available non-support and non-C2 personnel to support MPD. DCNG begins full
mobilization.
1519: SECARMY phone call with Senator Schumer and Speaker Pelosi about the nature of
Mayor Bowser’s request. SECARMY explains A/SD already approved full DCNG
mobilization.
1526: SECARMY phone call with Mayor Bowser and MPD police chief relays there was no
denial of their request, and conveys A/SD approval of the activation of full DCNG.
1546: CNGB phone call with the Adjutant General (TAG) of Virginia to discuss support in
Washington D.C. TAG said Governor had ordered mobilization of forces at 1532.
1548: SECARMY departs Pentagon for MPD HQ.
1555: CNGB phone call with TAG of Maryland to discuss support in Washington D.C. TAG
said governor ordered the mobilization of the rapid response force. TAG reports Governor
had ordered mobilization of the rapid response force at 1547.
1610: SECARMY arrives at MPD HQ.
1618: A/SD, CJCS, SECARMY, and CNGB discuss availability of National Guard (NG) forces
from other States in the region. A/SD gives voice approval for out-of-State NG forces to
muster and to be prepared to deploy to D.C.
1632: A/SD provides verbal authorization to re-mission DCNG to conduct perimeter and
clearance operations in support of USCP. SECARMY to provide public notification of
support.
1640: SECARMY phone call with Governor of Maryland. Governor to send Maryland NG
troops to D.C., expected to arrive on January 7, 2021.
1702: Departure of 154 DCNG from D.C. Armory in support of USCP. Arrive at Capitol at
1740, swear in with USCP, and begin support operations.
1745: A/SD signs formal authorization for out-of-State NG to muster and gives voice approval
for deployment in support of USCP.
1814: USCP, MPD, and DCNG successfully establish perimeter on the west side of the U.S.
Capitol.
1936: A/SD provides vocal approval to lease fences in support of the USCP for security of the
Capitol building.
2000: USCP declares Capitol building secure.
Note: This document has been updated to more appropriately reflect the characterization of
events at the U.S. Capitol on January 6th.

 

[Reason]

Here's the two important parts
Jan 6:

1504: A/SD, with advice from CJCS, DoD GC, the Chief of the National Guard Bureau
(CNGB), SECARMY, and the Chief of Staff of the Army, provides verbal approval of the
full activation of DCNG (1100 total) in support of the MPD. Immediately upon A/SD

Jan 3:

• A/SD and CJCS meet with the President. President concurs in activation of the DCNG to
support law enforcement.

Edit: Trump approved in advance, acting Secretary of Defense deployed 1,100 national guard troops on the 6th

 

[Reason]

It's not mentioned in the Pentagon document but more and more guardsmen continued to pour in from out of state. Gov Cuomo, for example, of New York sent a thousand men if I recall correctly

 

[just me]

Acquitted.

 

[Tamagochi]

Sanity has prevailed in the end. If Trump was charged on flimsy grounds it would have increased the divide and gave fuel to conspiracy theorists for decades. Now he can just quietly fade away from public memory.
And all the news channels has just found themselves out of business - that's a real win.

 

[SpecialEdition]

Here's the two important parts
Jan 6:

Jan 3:

Edit: Trump approved in advance, acting Secretary of Defense deployed 1,100 national guard troops on the 6th

Those 340 that were approved in advance were not allowed to act as law enforcement and they were on there to assist with flow of traffic.

Requests for more National Guard went out around 1330 and yet it took hours for them to be mobilized. If it was already approved then I would have though they'd be on standby and would take several hours to actually arrive to assist.

 

[SpecialEdition]

Sanity has prevailed in the end. If Trump was charged on flimsy grounds it would have increased the divide and gave fuel to conspiracy theorists for decades. Now he can just quietly fade away from public memory.
And all the news channels has just found themselves out of business - that's a real win.

He's creating his own political movement and is not fading away. Someone like Trump is not just going to disappear like that lol.

 

[David54]

He activated the white supremacy underbelly of this country. Now that they are empowered it will take time to suppress them again.

 

[SpecialEdition]

I understand Mitch McConnell's reason for not convicting based on the alternative interpretation of the constitution. What I didn't expect was complete condemnation of Donald Trump and agreeing with the democrats that he was absolutely guilty of inciting the insurrection. His closing remarks did surprised me and I did get the sense that his closing remarks were intended to completely divorce the Republican party from Trump.

I do hope that the Republican party is rid of him for good.

 

[larry806q]

Very clearly anyone can believe absolutely anything they chose to believe. The earth is flat, water is dry, balls roll up hill and that Government is legit (any U.S. Government). Reality on the other hand is a different matter in most places (this list being one of the exceptions). The REALITY of 1/6/21 is that if Trump had actually called for an insurrection they would have taken the Capitol and would still be there. I do agree there is probably no point in discussing the stolen election or need to worry about that. The fact that it was stolen has been proven by countless numbers of people who have demonstrated among other things the mathmatical impossibility of a large portion of what transpired. No one will or, if they do won't accept the information, by Mike Lindell, yes of MY Pillow "fame", put together a 90 minute documentary of what transpired. I believe (but don't know for sure) that it is on the OOAN website. I will also agree that name calling is fun and putting labels on folks to try and defend a position can be a real hoot. The minor glitch is that it serves no purpose (constructive) in any dialogue. I am not aware of anyone trying to defend Trump as a great example of discreet civility any more than I have heard anyone (with working brains, I do need to qualify that) trying to defend Biden has all of his mental faculties left. Fire away!

 

[SpecialEdition]

I listened to him and I'm still taking it in. He condemned Trump for inciting 1/6/21 but stated he did not agree that impeachment was the right venue to deal with him. If this had happened while Trump still had more time in office, he'd have voted to convict him.

Bill Cassidy and Richard Burr changing their mind to convict was really surprising.

If only McConell hadn't sent the Senate to recess until Jan 19th. But here we are anyway.

 

[Deleted member 16771]

I like how people are politely ignoring the batshit insanity of conspiracy thinking in half of this thread.

If anyone needs evidence of Trump's demagoguery, look no further than that. He's created an alternate reality which isn't going away.

There is now a dangerous mass delusion in America, and dispelling it might be the work of generations.