Is the world a business and people their slaves? | INFJ Forum

Is the world a business and people their slaves?

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by AUM, Oct 10, 2009.

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  1. AUM

    AUM The Romantic Scientist

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    I've been thinking about this for a long time:

    Why( regardless of your political/economical affiliations) is the world all about money? Why do we need money in the first place? This system was clearly invented by men with the intentions of doing what? Why is it that it depends on itfor society to function as it is and that millions of children, hard-working citizens and all others in between work, work and work and in return they get nothing? (A paycheck, so, is money more valuable than our time?)

    Corporations all over, being the supreme rulers of the world could feed each person on this planet and yet they decide to keep that "reward" for themselves.

    Governments are only being manipulated by corporations to keep this "system" going of producing more and more debt and in exchange people to work like slaves. While the world's wealth is badly distributed:
    Now, what is this about? How come we don't hear about these people in the news or in the media, clearly because they don't want us to think that we are run over an unfair system.

    Ok, now some people argue that if there existed no money there wouldn't be an incentive to work. Remember that threadthat I posted a while back about having all the time in the world and about you all having curiosity about learning of other subjects that would interest you, for me, that would be an incentive. Another may argue, "well, if there is no work, there won't be any production of goods", true, but again, I think there is sufficient technology for us to accommodate that. So, instead of humans being the slaves a.k.a laborers we could use that technology to serve our needs.

    Anyhow, I'm not complaining about anything(and yes, I'm a slave myself), it's just sad that having everything to live a happy and peaceful life for all, the accumulation of resources also known as greed and power over others is what keeps this cycle of endless suffering to imprison us all into the world of corporatocracy
     
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    #1 AUM, Oct 10, 2009
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  2. Duty

    Duty Permanent Fixture

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    Wealth distribution, simply, is one of the largest contributors toward "the great world problem." I forget the author, but it's a great quote: "If I give the poor food, they call me a saint. If I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist."

    Another would be laws: most of the world is full of underdeveloped people that won't behave if there is no fear of social shunning/social retribution (laws)/etc, and the other 1/3 that cares about developing beyond this fear (and doesn't need laws and fear to behave ethically) requires rules to be flexible and allow for some degree of mistake. In the words of Aristotle: "I have gained this by philosophy: that I do without being commanded what others do only for fear of the law."

    Capitalism, in practice, is a very flawed system for the same reason: it is, in theory, supposed to encourage innovation, self-improvement, and "the best product." In practice it turns out that those that prevent innovations (oil companies preventing the electric car), are greedy bastards that don't self-improve, and don't have the best product, but the market shares to outshine any competition are the ones that wind up succeeding. Not to mention the extreme gaps in inheritance inequalities...some people have clear advantage from the start.
     
  3. enfp can be shy

    enfp can be shy people vs the bad people?
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    I view the world right now as a Casino.

    Some people win presumably good (actually small) stakes, and then they explain on TV how they "made themselves".

    I've seen many recent studies in economics and statistics that confirm what I'm saying, but I like before all the presentations of Dan Ariely :) who I'm sure is an INFJ. You can check his talk at Google Campus, for example, if you are interested.

    So, as players in the Casino, I wouldn't exactly call us "slaves", but we are certainly addicted, unhealthy, and very dependent. Above all, our lives are becoming utterly meaningless, because most things that we could do are actually unnecessary, or even harmful. Unfortunately, that seems to apply to the large part of the scientific work too. Scientists are directed by the fundings. Too many projects are financed by the army and so on, you get the picture.
     
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    AUM

    AUM The Romantic Scientist

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    The world as a casino...uhmm...it makes sense. However, what about those people that are working for less than a dollar a day in sweat shops in other countries? How can they even be part of this casino?

    As to the scientists, yes, they may be funded by these types of groups but in my opinion, they are the actual people that are making our lives better. Thanks to science we have cures for various diseases, we have machines that cut human labor(though, in a monetary system, that can be a bad thing since these people would be unemployed), we have rockets that visit other planets and overall I think science and technology are marking the way to a better future if somehow this monetary system collapses(I doubt it):), we can find ourselves living in a more healthy and safe world.

    I won't mention the evil side of science but that's a post for another day.

    My response too idealistic....yeah, I thought so :D
     
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  5. enfp can be shy

    enfp can be shy people vs the bad people?
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    A Casino only looks shiny, but is always full of rats, and is built over massive piles of dead bodies. It represents so well the Gauss curve we all participate in.

    That's why I'm talking about science, because it seems the only reasonable thing left to do, but in the official established structures it's very hard to avoid being led into some harmful direction. And unfortunately, you can't build LHC in your garage, i.e. the current relevant science becomes too dependent of large financial support and large teams. It's harder to seriously compete with the state of art, from home. A true scientist needs to be independent, which is now almost impossible. (if you want to do really new things)
     
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    #5 enfp can be shy, Oct 10, 2009
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  6. Duty

    Duty Permanent Fixture

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    I would guess that the amount of computer science and mathematical research you could do from home would be pretty staggering. All you need to prove mathematical theorums is prior knowledge and a good grasp of deductive reasoning.
     
  7. enfp can be shy

    enfp can be shy people vs the bad people?
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    Absolutely true about pure math. But how important is it to solve the pressing issues of the world right now. It looks like an expensive hobby at the moment; like playing golf.

    About programming - it's not like in the old times, now most truly creative projects require teams, management, and so on. Which from my experience is frustrating for everyone involved; in fact, even for the team-leaders.

    Of course, there's always a way, just pointing out some of the restrictions.
     
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    AUM

    AUM The Romantic Scientist

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    Jackpot!

    Yes, as of now we have the sufficient technology to convert all oil cars into energy-renewable ones but the problem is that doing this will destroy their huge profits made from people who purchase gasoline, so it's this big corporations who are impeding innovation(like you said). It's been proven that we can use air, wave and other types of energy for us to light the whole planet but unfortunely we don't have the sufficient research and development fundings for this to happen.
     
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  9. Duty

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    People can do some pretty amazing things with electronics/logic circuits on a low budget too...although admittedly the fun areas like artificial intelligence and robotics are more high-fund projects.

    And pure math doesn't usually result in problem solving in the short term. It often takes decades before it finds application...a lot of the problem is the mathematician didn't try to "sell" his idea.

    There are still at-home inventors. I know one as a matter of fact...he's about to close on a $500,000 construction invention. Supposedly he has a couple more inventions in the works too.
     
  10. Duty

    Duty Permanent Fixture

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    The formula for wild success is this:

    1. Have a lot of capital.
    2. Suppress competition by out-marketing them. Marketing is the greatest money-maker in the business world. There is no power like convincing people that your product is best/mainstream/cheapest/or some other quality...even if your product is not. Marketing is what makes people buy stuff...or even knowing which products are available in the first place! Basically, you don't need to have that great a product if you can only convince people that you do.
    3. If all else fails...use force. Buy them out with all that capital or sue them with the best lawyers in the business. Law is complicated enough to bring down the best of those without the starting capital.
     
  11. OP
    AUM

    AUM The Romantic Scientist

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    Well, if you already have that much capital, might as well influence the government to impose new legislations over the use of renewable energy. Invest on presidential campaigns to support the green party or something like that and like you said, use marketing to influence the citizens that these types of energy methods are more efficient than standard oil.
     
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  12. daydreamer

    daydreamer Permanent Fixture

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    We are all regulated by some sort of rules, in other words, transdentalism.
     
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  13. Faye

    Faye ^_^
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    What do you mean by this? I don't understand.





    The answer to the OP is liberalism and capitalism. The dominant class has created a superstructure to serve their economic interests. That means everything- religion, government, philosophy, everything that they can control they use for the purpose of keeping you in check to turn a profit. Sorry, that is the world we live in.
     
  14. daydreamer

    daydreamer Permanent Fixture

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    It means we are all ruled by something, or are regulated. For example, at work you are told what to do, when to do it, and how to do it. When you go to a restaurant and receive a menu you are regulated on what you choose to eat.

    We are all regulated somehow.
     
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    AUM

    AUM The Romantic Scientist

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    And knowing this, we still follow the system. What a paradox.
     
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  16. daydreamer

    daydreamer Permanent Fixture

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    It is a rule of life.
     
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  17. Roger

    Roger ...

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    I agree with your comment.
     
  18. daydreamer

    daydreamer Permanent Fixture

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    The more we think about it, the more we realize how regulated we are. I mean, we can try to break those regulations, but there are consequences for it. For example, in my school I wear uniform, if I came all of a sudden in a t-shirt and a mini skirt, I would get a detention or something worse.
     
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  19. Tamagochi

    Tamagochi Sushi Destroyer
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    Interesting thread Last Dawn - certainly you're not the only one thinking such thoughts.

    The more I think about and investigate capitalism the more flaws I see. Ultimately it has no purpose except for mindlessly consuming all of our planet's resources. It forces us to sell our true desires in order just to survive. And it's becoming increasingly harder to do so despite all of our technological achievements: a person had to work 10 years to buy a private house 50 years ago, now for that same house you have to work 30 years. The money we earn is becoming less and less real - now just a few bytes on a hard disk of some bank's computer. It costs them nothing to create and destroy such kind of money with just a few clicks of a mouse. Because it is not backed up by anything nowadays - 100 years ago each dollar was backed up by a certain amount of country's gold reserves.

    The question is: if the system is faulty - how can it survive then?

    It's primary sources of power currently are:
    • Exploitation of foreign resources: the developed countries like USA are now overly dependent on immigration and imports from less developed countries.
    • Public mind control (a.k.a. marketing and propaganda): in order to keep people from rebelling against the system give them something to strive for and they won't have time. The masses are convinced that they need ipods, plasma TVs and a bunch of other products and services which they don't really need.
    • Decentralization of power - private corporations are gaining increasingly more of it.

    All of this closely resembles the final days of any civilization from history class. Take Rome for example: in their final days they were completely dependent on imports from their conquered colonies, citizens were convinced that they only needed "bread and entertainment" (death to Socrates), and the influential families were really running the empire for their own good. And then it had suddenly fallen.

    Capitalism as any other system before it is vulnerable to the same threats:
    • Resources can simply end or the colonies can rebel. What would happen if China suddenly stopped supplying cheap goodies for USA or decided to dump it's foreign currency reserves? It now even has enough military power to pull off such a trick.
    • It's becoming increasingly harder to keep people content - more and more of them are becoming angry, disillusioned and depressed with the situation.
    • Private corporations can screw up majorly - as we have seen in current economic crisis. They also do not hesitate to sell weapons and strategic resources to anyone.

    In my view I don't see how can capitalism survive for a long time and it probably has entered it's final stages. It's quite possible that we will see a fall of it during our lifetimes in the next 50 years. Will it be replaced by a better system or by the dark ages - it remains to be seen.
     
  20. muir

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    Hi Last Dawn i share your concerns.

    Someone recently sent me this link which you might be interested in:
    http://www.sott.net/articles/show/191213-Word-gets-around-Twilight-and-the-trick-of-the-psychopaths

    I guess it is a reasonable theory that the people who push up most successfully into positions of power are usually the most ruthless/ambitious not necessarily the most honest or talented. It would explain the widespread corruption, oppression and inefficiency we are seeing in society.

    The idea that psycopaths may be identified by technology offers hope. Otherwise it is difficult to establish the decency of possible leaders as they will just go on highly publicised baby hugging exercises to look good to the public.

    Maybe we should only put INFJ's in positions of authority and create a world based on providing human needs not human wants! Or would that just create a new tyranny?
     
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