Is it possible to have a healthy relationship with a person who has low self esteem/worth?

[David54]

The thing for me is that I don't like how people with low self esteem behave.

No one does, right?

So this seems like contradictory information. Yes, it's possible to have a healthy relationship with people with low self esteem, no you shouldnt be friends with someone you expect to change/ don't like.

Help me out?

I think the thing here is you cannot change a person. so if you are concerned about who they are do not enter into a relationship with the expectation that you will change them and make them better somehow . . or mold them to be more to your liking. in the end they will be who they were

 

[Deleted member 16771]

Full disclosure, privately I'm looking at this through a lens of gender, whereby I assume that the default approach of women is one of self-preservation - that is, the instinctive approach to this is that a (male) partner should be absolutely no burden whatsoever, and as soon as they show any 'weakness' or imposition at all, then attraction plummets through the floor and it's super easy to leave and move on when that happens.

By contrast, I don't think men have to deal with such a loss of attraction when their partners are having a tricky time of things - it's a comparatively much less dangerous time for the relationship when the woman is struggling.

 

[Deleted member 16771]

Full disclosure, privately I'm looking at this through a lens of gender, whereby I assume that the default approach of women is one of self-preservation - that is, the instinctive approach to this is that a (male) partner should be absolutely no burden whatsoever, and as soon as they show any 'weakness' or imposition at all, then attraction plummets through the floor and it's super easy to leave and move on when that happens.

By contrast, I don't think men have to deal with such a loss of attraction when their partners are having a tricky time of things - it's a comparatively much less dangerous time for the relationship when the woman is struggling.

In other words, @slant, if you're a woman looking to go into a relationship with a man, then no, don't sweat it.

It's too much burden on the female psyche to try to maintain attraction when the guy can't handle himself, and it's just not going to work for you.

On the other hand, if you're the one with low self-esteem, then it's not going to bother any dude overmuch.

 

[ReasonEnduring]

Full disclosure, privately I'm looking at this through a lens of gender, whereby I assume that the default approach of women is one of self-preservation - that is, the instinctive approach to this is that a (male) partner should be absolutely no burden whatsoever, and as soon as they show any 'weakness' or imposition at all, then attraction plummets through the floor and it's super easy to leave and move on when that happens.

By contrast, I don't think men have to deal with such a loss of attraction when their partners are having a tricky time of things - it's a comparatively much less dangerous time for the relationship when the woman is struggling.

In other words, @slant, if you're a woman looking to go into a relationship with a man, then no, don't sweat it.

It's too much burden on the female psyche to try to maintain attraction when the guy can't handle himself, and it's just not going to work for you.

On the other hand, if you're the one with low self-esteem, then it's not going to bother any dude overmuch.

I'd disagree there a little. I think gender doesn't play into it as much. Its more about the desire to improve.

I've ended things with people who complained endlessly about problems, despite when I provided them the tools to improve, they chose not to instead leaning on me to fix their lives.

I personally won't tolerate a relationship where I'm expected to do all the heavy lifting by myself including emotional. It has to be a 2 way street. But I don't mind help someone walk down it on their side if they actually want to walk it.

 

[slant]

Full disclosure, privately I'm looking at this through a lens of gender, whereby I assume that the default approach of women is one of self-preservation - that is, the instinctive approach to this is that a (male) partner should be absolutely no burden whatsoever, and as soon as they show any 'weakness' or imposition at all, then attraction plummets through the floor and it's super easy to leave and move on when that happens.

By contrast, I don't think men have to deal with such a loss of attraction when their partners are having a tricky time of things - it's a comparatively much less dangerous time for the relationship when the woman is struggling.

I'm not talking romantic

Only friendship

 

[slant]

In other words, @slant, if you're a woman looking to go into a relationship with a man, then no, don't sweat it.

It's too much burden on the female psyche to try to maintain attraction when the guy can't handle himself, and it's just not going to work for you.

On the other hand, if you're the one with low self-esteem, then it's not going to bother any dude overmuch.

Again l was using relationship to contrast how the information didn't make sense in both context; I am speaking specifically of platonic relationships

 

[Deleted member 16771]

I'm not talking romantic

Only friendship

Ohhh... then there's absolutely no reason why it can't work. The only thing you have to bear in mind is that modern buzzword: 'boundaries'. Be clear about what's too much and with what you're willing to give, and it shouldn't be a problem.

Otherwise, if you're ditching your 'friends' in their time of need, then no, you aren't a friend and the question is moot.

 

[acd]

In other words, @slant, if you're a woman looking to go into a relationship with a man, then no, don't sweat it.

It's too much burden on the female psyche to try to maintain attraction when the guy can't handle himself, and it's just not going to work for you.

On the other hand, if you're the one with low self-esteem, then it's not going to bother any dude overmuch.

It should go the same for guys, too. And I catch your dig against females stating the female psyche "can't handle" it lol.
No. It's not about handling it. It's about having healthy relationships. Relationships that are balanced. It can't just be one person getting all the benefit. That's not a partnership.

But I'm not sure if we are talking about just low self esteem (everyone goes through bouts I think) or codependency because someone has low self esteem. Because that is what leads to the real issues.

 

[Deleted member 16771]

And I catch your dig against females stating the female psyche "can't handle" it.

Not really. It was meant literally, not as a kind of subtextual insult; like, 'ooh, girls should be able to handle it but they can't'. No. I literally think that women have less tolerance for that than men, and shouldn't expect themselves to be able to tolerate it.

Anyway that's at least what I think when I'm in awful contrarian mode.

No. It's not about handling it. It's about having healthy relationships. Relationships that are balanced. It can't just be one person getting all the benefit. That's not a partnership.

Of course, but to what extent are we going to admit that a gendered dynamic is part of that 'healthy relationship'?

 

[acd]

Not really. It was meant literally, not as a kind of subtextual insult; like, 'ooh, girls should be able to handle it but they can't'. No. I literally think that women have less tolerance for that than men, and shouldn't expect themselves to be able to tolerate it.

Anyway that's at least what I think when I'm in awful contrarian mode.


Of course, but to what extent are we going to admit that a gendered dynamic is part of that 'healthy relationship'?

Why should a man have to handle it?

Please further explain your ideas on gender dynamics.

 

[Deleted member 16771]

Why should a man have to handle it?

Shoulds and oughts have no bearing on the reality of gender relations

Please further explain your ideas on gender dynamics.

Well, for the sake of brevity I'll keep it short:

I think the majority of straight people would like to preserve some differentiated gender roles, and in general I don't think there's anything wrong with this, except that as a result 'balancing' relationships mean weighing the difference between qualitatively different capacities and responsibilities.

 

[acd]

Shoulds and oughts have no bearing on the reality of gender relations


Well, for the sake of brevity I'll keep it short:

I think the majority of straight people would like to preserve some differentiated gender roles, and in general I don't think there's anything wrong with this, except that as a result 'balancing' relationships mean weighing the difference between qualitatively different capacities and responsibilities.

Maybe my brain is foggy today, but what does self esteem have to do with this? Do you think women naturally have lower self esteem?

 

[Deleted member 16771]

Maybe my brain is foggy today, but what does self esteem have to do with this? Do you think women naturally have lower self esteem?

My point was that, in general, women have less tolerance for lower self-esteem in their male partners than in the opposite case. That it would have a comparatively greater effect on their own sense of well-being.

In other words, that what we're talking about here is an unequal mental drain depending on the genders involved, and therefore that considering this 'gendered dynamic' is pertinent to the question's answer.

 

[slant]

But I'm not sure if we are talking about just low self esteem (everyone goes through bouts I think) or codependency because someone has low self esteem. Because that is what leads to the real issues.

Very astute there.

I think for me, maybe I'm worried all people with low self esteem will slip into this codependency thing. I've had it happen in the past and I stopped it. So I get very nervous and have a hard time understanding what is normal and what is starting to get into negative territory

 

[flower]

I hope so, because otherwise I'm doomed for being single for the rest of my life when it comes to romantic relationships, lol (joke).

Yes, it's possible. We all struggle with own issues at times and no one is perfect. Everyone has their own struggles to battle with, whatever it is.

Though, it's important to try to improve the situation and work on with those issues (like low self-esteem for example).

 

[acd]

My point was that, in general, women have less tolerance for lower self-esteem in their male partners than in the opposite case. That it would have a comparatively greater effect on their own sense of well-being.

In other words, that what we're talking about here is an unequal mental drain depending on the genders involved.

So basically women seek someone strong for support. Men are ok with providing support or putting up with issues. Because a person with low self esteem is usually vulnerable.

So it becomes like a protector sort of dynamic. Is it really an unequal drain though? It must have an impact on men.

Idk. Personally I think women can be just as strong as men and that equal partnerships are hot. One doesn't need to be more vulnerable.

 

[slant]

So basically women seek someone strong for support. Men are ok with providing support or putting up with issues. Because a person with low self esteem is usually vulnerable.

So it becomes like a protector sort of dynamic. Is it really an unequal drain though? It must have an impact on men.

Idk. Personally I think women can be just as strong as men and that equal partnerships are hot. One doesn't need to be more vulnerable.

I agree. But I think hos has some very specific to him gender roles he likes to follow. From what I can see he is very fixated on gender.

 

[David54]

Personally I think women can be just as strong as men and that equal partnerships are hot. One doesn't need to be more vulnerable.

true that. .

 

[David54]

I hope so, because otherwise I'm doomed for being single for the rest of my life when it comes to romantic relationships, lol (joke).

Yes, it's possible. We all struggle with own issues at times and no one is perfect. Everyone has their own struggles to battle with, whatever it is.

Though, it's important to try to improve the situation and work on with those issues (like low self-esteem for example).

I think it is about going into relationships, not to change someone, but rather accepting who and where they are as a person. there is no reason not to fully love a person of low self esteem. .but it is not you job or place to try to "fix" them. . if you dont love the the way they are, then you dont love them

 

[acd]

Very astute there.

I think for me, maybe I'm worried all people with low self esteem will slip into this codependency thing. I've had it happen in the past and I stopped it. So I get very nervous and have a hard time understanding what is normal and what is starting to get into negative territory

Would you be able to share examples of what you're wondering is starting to get into negative territory? Or what you think is normal about your friendships?