Is it possible to have a healthy relationship with a person who has low self esteem/worth?

slant said:
"I don't like that you value my opinion so highly. Go find your own opinions."

"It irritates me that you are willing to go participate in plans you don't want to do. I don't respect people who don't have a spine."
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Too hard :tearsofjoy: Don't use active voice ('I', 'me') as that reinforces the power dynamic (in that you're forcing them to conform to you, rather than to a general standard).

Something like this:

'Listen, dude, it's not good that you were willing to go along with those plans when you didn't want to. I find that weird, it creeped me out a bit, and I think you need to work on making yourself a priority.'
 
Lady Jolanda said:
Hmm... I see what you mean, and I have definitely felt like that in the past. You say you're very self reflective so this should be an easy one to answer: do you feel attacked? Is this a psychological defense?
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I can tell you exactly what it is.

I once ended a 2 year friendship on a single question that was asked. There was more buildup than this, but it was the straw that broke the camel's back so to speak.

My ENFP friend asked me,

"Are you mad at me?"

This infuriated me. I replied calmly,

"No. Don't you think that if I was upset at you, I would communicate that?"

Clearly she didn't think so. I ended the friendship. The fact that believed I would behave that way indicated that after so long of knowing each other she didn't actually really know or trust me. When people begin to question my behavior and imply that I'm not being authentic or redirect how they would like me to behave it's insulting. It's like,

Don't you think that I would take care of myself? You don't think that I would act in the ways I want and communicate what I want to communicate? It's my job to do that, not your job to speculate on what's going on in my head.
 
Deleted member 16771 said:
No, in one case it was because he was sharing too much. He (her colleague) wanted to talk about his problems, so he brought her down and she avoided him as a consequence. The same woman's husband got into difficulties and she ended up wanting/trying to have an affair with me around the same time. By comparison I was the 'rock' in her life, running the department at work during a crisis.

Hard not to take that lesson at face value.
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Blegh. I'm sorry to both that husband and to you Hos.
 
slant said:
I can tell you exactly what it is.

I once ended a 2 year friendship on a single question that was asked. There was more buildup than this, but it was the straw that broke the camel's back so to speak.

My ENFP friend asked me,

"Are you mad at me?"

This infuriated me. I replied calmly,

"No. Don't you think that if I was upset at you, I would communicate that?"

Clearly she didn't think so. I ended the friendship. The fact that believed I would behave that way indicated that after so long of knowing each other she didn't actually really know or trust me. When people begin to question my behavior and imply that I'm not being authentic or redirect how they would like me to behave it's insulting. It's like,

Don't you think that I would take care of myself? You don't think that I would act in the ways I want and communicate what I want to communicate? It's my job to do that, not your job to speculate on what's going on in my head.
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I have Fi, too, so I understand the feeling here. What infuriates me is if people question my honesty.

However, in this case, that sounds bananas. An overreaction.

I've been in exactly the same situation, but my response was simply to reassure. The question 'are you mad at me' was like a probe; a little jab of insecurity to make sure on her part. It served to build trust and 'trust capacity' in the friendship (including that it was acceptable to 'make sure' like that); it built comfort.
 
Deleted member 16771 said:
I have Fi, too, so I understand the feeling here. What infuriates me is if people question my honesty.

However, in this case, that sounds bananas. An overreaction.

I've been in exactly the same situation, but my response was simply to reassure. The question 'are you mad at me' was like a probe; a little jab of insecurity to make sure on her part. It served to build trust and 'trust capacity' in the friendship (including that it was acceptable to 'make sure' like that); it built comfort.
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I don't find that behavior acceptable. She couldn't even give a reason why I might be mad at her. It's not my job to validate people's insecurity and it was a constant job of mine to figure out what emotions she was projecting onto me and holding be responsible for.

"How do you feel in our friendship?" Might have been a better question, but that's not what she really wanted to know. After talking to her what I found out she was really trying to ask is,

"Is there something wrong with me? Can you tell me I'm a good person and that you like me?"

No. If you don't love yourself no one will.
 
slant said:
I don't find that behavior acceptable. She couldn't even give a reason why I might be mad at her. It's not my job to validate people's insecurity and it was a constant job of mine to figure out what emotions she was projecting onto me and holding be responsible for.

"How do you feel in our friendship?" Might have been a better question, but that's not what she really wanted to know. After talking to her what I found out she was really trying to ask is,

"Is there something wrong with me? Can you tell me I'm a good person and that you like me?"

No. If you don't love yourself no one will.
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Jesus Christ, you sound like a brutal friend.
 
IDK slant, sounds to me that your needs have changed due to your growth and you might be expecting things from friends of yours that might not be the get go to do this with (intuitively you already know). If you want to experience these things (others being more proactive, challenging your opinions etc) with these friends however I don't understand why you don't talk about your wishes and stay at your side of the street and not focus much on your interpretation of their behavior beforehand or within the conversation...?
And it is also okay if you feel unease.. no need to push yourself either at the moment.

But anyhow this is just what it sounds like to me right now, doesn't mean it is true.
 
Lady Jolanda said:
Thank god that's not actually the case.
I mean, I assume you loved her (as a friend) before the friendship blew up, right?
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No.

Our relationship was based on mutual need;

I needed to feel powerful by giving her advice and encouraging her and it gave me self esteem to feel like I was "helping" her.

She needed to feel like someone else could make decisions for her because she didn't believe she was capable of it and it was a security blanket for her.

It was an extremely unhealthy friendship and I don't believe either of us ever genuinely cared for each other in it.
 
Deleted member 16771 said:
I think this thread itself is symptomatic of that cultural norm, to even ask the question if someone else's 'self-esteem' renders them incapable of a relationship. There's something very troubling about that, to me - the reduction of a person to their capacity to gratify, like a consumer product.
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yup
 
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