is introversion selfish? | INFJ Forum

is introversion selfish?

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by TinyBubbles, Mar 11, 2010.

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  1. TinyBubbles

    TinyBubbles anarchist

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    i think it's safe to say the majority of us here are introverts? and even extroverts have their 'introverted' moments, so i'm sure we can all in some ways relate to the feeling of wanting to be alone as opposed to wanting to be with others. now an ethical question: is introversion selfish? selfish in the sense that you're putting your needs above the needs of others, of the group, or whoever else may need or appreciate your company. introversion is withholding your presence from others, for whatever reason, and of course, that means depriving others of what you could legitimately give by being there. is this wrong? is becoming overwhelmed and needing respite from social activity a morally acceptable reason to introvert? think about the people you could be making happier by talking to them, the relationships you could be enabling others to form with you if you were merely present to them, accessible and sociable and unrestrained in your affections towards them. is it wrong to put your own needs above these other people? why or why not? a poignant example to put the idea into perspective: people say suicide is selfish, because it totally deprives ones' family and friends of ones' company. it is a total loss of their ability to enjoy your presence, insights, decisions and reactions through life. introversion, relative to extroversion, could be said to be a similar loss to society at large, in a more subtle and indirect way.
     
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  2. Puck

    Puck Perilous Pixie
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    It's a logical argument, but it presupposes that all extrovert activity is adding something to the world. It is not always so. Aren't there occassions where talking to someone will cause them pain? Aren't there times when relationships are in fact disabled by extroverted and unrestrained affections? Isn't it sometimes true that talking to someone else is putting yourself first? On such occasions, one might say that extroversion is selfish, in it's raw form, for exerting one's thoughts, will and personality on others, rather than being reserved, listening and paying attention to other people's needs.
     
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  3. enfp can be shy

    enfp can be shy people vs the bad people?
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    Let's scrap selfish. It's not clearly defined. Let's think about efficiency. There are no extreme extroverts and introverts. Full extroverts are like passive mirrors with no core. Full introverts are like passive black holes with no reflection.
    This is independent of I/E. I think it's a clash Ti-Fi. While Ti can formulate needs clearly, Fi can't, but has them too. From the Fi perspective the Ti formulation of needs seems imperfect, like they are actually trapped in those formulations. Like their complex sense of self is manufactured, crafted. From the Ti perspective the Fi needs are so vague that they seem lost, and need guidance. Potentially they can save each other, because the Fe side of Ti is able to help gently the lost Fi to find its way, and the Te side of Fi is able to construct exactly and precisely what the Ti formulates as needs.

    P.S. I think in the end introversion does more good than harm, compared to extroversion.. But it's hard to quantify this.. I've said before that I suspect society to push all people towards their introverted variants, in near future, don't know about after it..
     
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    #3 enfp can be shy, Mar 11, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2010
  4. Morgain

    Morgain defective wisdom
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    it works in both ways. I know a lot of extraverted people who CAN'T BE ALONE so therefore seek the company of other people as much as possible regardles of these people want it.
     
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  5. Jasmine85

    Jasmine85 Regular Poster

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    Your needs are as worthy as anyone elses. If you need time alone to be happy, then you're entitled to take that.


    Is it selfish of an extravert person to expect others to keep her company?
     
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  6. Siamese cat

    Siamese cat Madame Cat strikes again

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    This is what I wanted to say, and to add to it that if I wasn't granted seclusion from time to time, all worthy contributions from me to my friends and family would cease to exist because I just wouldn't have the strength to do anything worthy to begin with.

    I often see some of my extrovert acquaintances as selfish since they sometime just wouldn't stop talking, or don't bother to ask whether someone wants to participate in their activities but just drawn them without question in that vortex of activities, and I could go on and on with suck examples. My extrovert friends learned to ask (if they weren't asking before) and to acknowledge that I sometimes need my time and they are aware that all that I give in my relationships (and I tend to give a lot more than I give to myself sometimes) drains me, and that I need time to recharge.
     
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  7. NeverAmI

    NeverAmI Satisclassifaction
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    I would say it is more selfish of someone to expect you to put their needs over your own, the only exception being a dependant.

    If you consistently ignore your children because you need alone time, then that is pretty damn selfish.
     
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  8. Quinlan

    Quinlan Right the First Time!

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    Extroverts are no more deprived by people introverting than Introverts are deprived by people extroverting.
     
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  9. On my own path

    On my own path Community Member

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    No, I would not say that introversion is selfish. I order for us to properly aid others,we need to be " energised" and introversion may help us with that.A great deal of learning and the acquisition of knowledge and wisdom to help others is facilitated by introversion. Further more, in order to help others we need to understand ourselves, our weaknesses, our abilities, and how to improve our selves, et cetera; and this is helped or done by means of introspection.

    As Never Am I also said, it is sort of selfish for a maraud people to require you- while not being your dependents- to sacrifice your well being for their own well being and happiness.

    On a more personal note: I feel as though I am a bit bothersome to most people, so I am probably doing the right thing by staying away from most
     
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    #9 On my own path, Mar 11, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2010
  10. sumone

    sumone down the rabbit hole

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    I think it's selfish if you use your introversion as an excuse to be lazy or procrastinate.
     
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  11. Puck

    Puck Perilous Pixie
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    That's true, and I have been guilty of using it as an excuse from time to time. I suppose it's all about finding a balance - a bridge between the two worlds. :)
     
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  12. SpoofyMcPoof

    SpoofyMcPoof Community Member

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    I think humans are selfish creatures and both extroversion and introversion can be selfish. I see those tendencies as a need; introverts need alone time, extroverts need socialization. If they are putting those needs above everything else, all the time, then it can be seen as selfish.

    Of course there are varying degrees. I'm a weird introvert, I hate being around groups of people, but I hate being completely alone. I would rather have quiet time in the same room as someone I know than to have quiet time with no one there.
     
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  13. Faye

    Faye ^_^
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    Everyone is selfish in their own way, and introversion is no more selfish than extroversion in my opinion. I mean, both introverts and extroverts may be attending to the needs of others or themselves by being introverted or extroverted, so to position selfishness as monolithic seems to be a mistake.
     
  14. Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    no. But some guys who might be interested in INTP girls might occasionally worry about their appearing lack of interest as maybe the guy might be an extrovert and might like to hear from an INTP that he is interested in every now and then, and having to constantly initiate conversations can be wearying. Because he would not know if she has maintained her interest, and that is important to know, especially if he is going to continue to expend emotional currency on her...
     
  15. WaeV

    WaeV Community Member

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    I'm inclined to say that introversion isn't necessarily selfish. Te is a pretty selfish function.

    The following is modified copypasta from another of my posts on this forum, but I feel that it's important to make clear that selfishness isn't necessarily bad and that selflessness isn't necessarily good (and vice versa). If you've tied too much negativity to the word "selfish" then just use "self-interest".

    T seems to be inclined towards (Rational?) Self-Interest
    F seems to be inclined towards (Emotional?) Altruism

    Neither T nor F is better than the other, so why should selfishness or selflessness be better? The best is a balance. It's impossible to be the best Altruistic person you can without being selfish, at least some of the time.
     
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  16. Flavus Aquila

    Flavus Aquila Finding My Place in the Sun
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    The arguement you use is one that extroverts often use to justify their selfish need for company and attention.

    Growing up, my entire family was introverted. We got along very kindly letting each other be.

    Selfishness is relative to the needs of another - being reserved around introverts is considerate and being exuberant around extroverts is similarly considerate.
     
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  17. VH

    VH Variable Hybrid

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    This is extreme Fe. Extreme Ne is very self actualized.

    This is extreme Fi. Extreme Ni is very aware of others.

    I think this thread is discussing more the effects of extreme Fi and Fe than actual I and E.
     
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  18. slant

    slant Sedated slanty

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    I think that introverts a lot of the time lack social skills and that it puts a risk factor on them that others do not have; others meaning extroverts. Introverts when they are depressed tend to withdraw to themselves and they can become in a selfish mode where they do not think about other people because it's so beyond them. This can happen to extroverts too but I think it's easier to spot an unhappy extrovert and to pull them out of this state, if that makes sense. Also maintaining a good attitude is important, I think generally extroverts who have a positive attitude who are more outgoing versus introverts who have a positive attitude who are reserved, it's the extroverts who make more of a social impact. The introverts will make a impact behind the scenes more. And, like a few others said, it's hard for most people to interpret introverted signals and why you don't want to talk, offer praise, etc. To a lot of people just a minute of 'whats going on with you' is a sign that you care about them and are interested.

    Introversion = Selfishness?

    No.

    Selfishness is an attitude.

    But it is a lot easier for a reserved introvert to give off the wrong signals than an outgoing extrovert.
     
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    #18 slant, Mar 17, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2010
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  19. VH

    VH Variable Hybrid

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    +1
     
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  20. Roses In The Vineyard

    Roses In The Vineyard Community Member

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    This year has really proven it to be the other way around where it is very obvious that extroverts are the selfish ones being that they require nearly constant attention like a cheap BMW meaning they are high maintenance otherwise all hell breaks lose. As for most introverts we're like house plants that only need to be watered once or twice a month as needed.
     
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