The good or the bad? The bad....man, I read one book that was so terrible that it could've been written by someone on fanfiction.net (d'oh! Slamming myself too...). But it was awful, awful fiction. Cliche ridden tripe. But that's the thing - if you get your foot in the door and find a market, and if you write FAST, you can publish anything and make a living from it. It's the folks with integrity and talent that falter.
The good or the bad? The bad....man, I read one book that was so terrible that it could've been written by someone on fanfiction.net (d'oh! Slamming myself too...). But it was awful, awful fiction. Cliche ridden tripe. But that's the thing - if you get your foot in the door and find a market, and if you write FAST, you can publish anything and make a living from it. It's the folks with integrity and talent that falter.
I agree Arby...I love to read, and sometimes just to get enough books to read I read some of this tripe...(smut) what have you...But its just to fill my time...I really read alot!
The good or the bad? The bad....man, I read one book that was so terrible that it could've been written by someone on fanfiction.net (d'oh! Slamming myself too...). But it was awful, awful fiction. Cliche ridden tripe. But that's the thing - if you get your foot in the door and find a market, and if you write FAST, you can publish anything and make a living from it. It's the folks with integrity and talent that falter.
Hah. I thought you were referring to a specific book in the discussion here. But I know what you mean. Walk into the horror/fantasy section of most book stores and randomly pick up one of those vampire novels with the woman in the tightly clad leather. Bonus points if the main character's name is Wynter de Monroe
Sometimes, though, I'll admit that the authors on fanfiction.net and fictionpress.com can surprise you.
This first part is all about Thomas' character prior to starting Chapter 7.
Thomas' situation is mind-blowing. Leprosy! I have watched some specials on it. I didn't even think it was an issue these days!
The implications are HUGE. Can you imagine? Day in and day out, not only to be reminded you are ugly, that is bad enough, but to be seen as a walking pathogen. That is enough to drive anyone to madness.
I put myself in his shoes and I have mad respect for his situation. To force yourself to continue forward with nothing to live for. Think about it, what do we currently live for? I have a hard time coming up with enough things to justify living as is, for me it is pretty much, I am here right now and I struggle, but I suppose I will continue just to see what happens. So for me, curiosity and learning are about the only things that keep me going.
Thomas was different. He had a wife, a son, and apparently he was a good writer. Now, to have that all taken from him by some tangible enemy, well that gives him something to live for. But for your life to leave on her own accord and having such an easy inference that you yourself is responsible for such an act, or just random coincidence, is staggering.
To have so much and lose it to such crazy circumstance. It is mind-blowing. Every day that Thomas comes into social contact he is reminded of his newly acquired nature. Not only that but to have SO MUCH upkeep like he does, having to constantly check himself and stay on top of his illness. I would have caved MUCH earlier. What would be the point? He built up one hell of a wall, understandably so. Who wouldn't view the world through eyes of hatred when everyone loathes and avoids you?
When no longer sees you has human, how long does it take before you start to believe it, and act upon it?
So now comes Chapter 7
The end of this chapter has me sick, repulsed, and almost unwilling to continue forward, ESPECIALLY if more of this continues. I find it very uncomfortable to be so attached to someone that performs such vile acts.
When the author described Thomas' urges to strike Lena, I could put up with that, it is understandable because he has such inner conflict. But the fucker ACTED ON IT! Then he takes it EVEN FARTHER!
So this piece of shit suddenly got some hormones returned to him and perhaps they are too strong to control?
But Lena was innocent, she helped him countless times whereas Thomas did nothing but take like a plague. Now Lena suffers this because she dared to be kind to another person.
It makes me sick.
I can't type Thomas. His situation and actions so far are WAY too contextual for a decent frame of reference.
As for whether I find him likable: no, I loathe him. I am on to read chapter 8 and see what direction this takes now. All I have to say is that the author better have something DAMN good planned for this.
This first part is all about Thomas' character prior to starting Chapter 7.
Thomas' situation is mind-blowing. Leprosy! I have watched some specials on it. I didn't even think it was an issue these days!
The implications are HUGE. Can you imagine? Day in and day out, not only to be reminded you are ugly, that is bad enough, but to be seen as a walking pathogen. That is enough to drive anyone to madness.
I put myself in his shoes and I have mad respect for his situation. To force yourself to continue forward with nothing to live for. Think about it, what do we currently live for? I have a hard time coming up with enough things to justify living as is, for me it is pretty much, I am here right now and I struggle, but I suppose I will continue just to see what happens. So for me, curiosity and learning are about the only things that keep me going.
Thomas was different. He had a wife, a son, and apparently he was a good writer. Now, to have that all taken from him by some tangible enemy, well that gives him something to live for. But for your life to leave on her own accord and having such an easy inference that you yourself is responsible for such an act, or just random coincidence, is staggering.
To have so much and lose it to such crazy circumstance. It is mind-blowing. Every day that Thomas comes into social contact he is reminded of his newly acquired nature. Not only that but to have SO MUCH upkeep like he does, having to constantly check himself and stay on top of his illness. I would have caved MUCH earlier. What would be the point? He built up one hell of a wall, understandably so. Who wouldn't view the world through eyes of hatred when everyone loathes and avoids you?
When no longer sees you has human, how long does it take before you start to believe it, and act upon it?
So now comes Chapter 7
The end of this chapter has me sick, repulsed, and almost unwilling to continue forward, ESPECIALLY if more of this continues. I find it very uncomfortable to be so attached to someone that performs such vile acts.
When the author described Thomas' urges to strike Lena, I could put up with that, it is understandable because he has such inner conflict. But the fucker ACTED ON IT! Then he takes it EVEN FARTHER!
So this piece of shit suddenly got some hormones returned to him and perhaps they are too strong to control?
But Lena was innocent, she helped him countless times whereas Thomas did nothing but take like a plague. Now Lena suffers this because she dared to be kind to another person.
It makes me sick.
I can't type Thomas. His situation and actions so far are WAY too contextual for a decent frame of reference.
As for whether I find him likable: no, I loathe him. I am on to read chapter 8 and see what direction this takes now. All I have to say is that the author better have something DAMN good planned for this.
I cant type him either...If I had to guess ESFJ...but in his situation it is SO hard to judge...he has had to hide so much of himself because of his disease...
i agree that his anger seems misplaced, and it is hard to judge him for it...I cant say i wouldnt be angry in the same situation. I mean I cant imagine being seen as a foul disease and not as a person...
I do not like the main character...He is a coward...and a bastard...
So far the overall feeling is one of despair longing and cowardice...I want to feel bad for him but after this chapter I cant...
I dont think I could cope with losing sensation touch is such an integral part of being human...the sensory deprivation would drive me crazy...
Like NAI I am a little sickened by this chapter...I dont understand how he could do that...why he did that...What was the point? I thought he was impotent...I want to weep for Lena...
I have just found my copy and will be up to speed by Sunday (taking it with me to Indy). I have read this series four or five times so I can follow all the talk. Without spoiling anything, he does a lot with Covenant. Yes, he is a huge anti-hero. You want to feel sorry for him, but he's such a bastard. And his vile deed against Lena will have huge implications for millenia, both good and bad! I can't waits to read it again. And The bloodguard, YES!!
I'm actually a little into chapter eight, and yes, I did read the spoilers (silly me!) but reading the spoilers made chapter seven less uncomfortable...which might not be a good thing.
But I still want Lena's mum to go medieval on his ass. Or the Council of Lords. Or Trell. But now Covenant's realizing he's not as numb as he thinks he is, which is an interesting thematic twist. I wonder, though; perhaps he acted out because he thought it was still a dream and is afraid of the reality otherwise. It doesn't excuse the rape at all, but it makes you wonder. It *does* seem out of character for him, despite his rage. I could see him beating her...but rape is the ultimate violation. Still, it's not stopping me from reading. If anything else, it makes we want to find out what the repercussions will be for his act.
I'm actually a little into chapter eight, and yes, I did read the spoilers (silly me!) but reading the spoilers made chapter seven less uncomfortable...which might not be a good thing.
But I still want Lena's mum to go medieval on his ass. Or the Council of Lords. Or Trell. But now Covenant's realizing he's not as numb as he thinks he is, which is an interesting thematic twist. I wonder, though; perhaps he acted out because he thought it was still a dream and is afraid of the reality otherwise. It doesn't excuse the rape at all, but it makes you wonder. It *does* seem out of character for him, despite his rage. I could see him beating her...but rape is the ultimate violation. Still, it's not stopping me from reading. If anything else, it makes we want to find out what the repercussions will be for his act.
I finished chapter eight...*blush* But Im waiting on the rest (anxiously)
I felt the same way, I didnt understand why Atiaran didnt let him kill Thomas...I pretty much agree with what you said since I have had more time to stew over it, but I am still angry about it...I am not stopping, I do hope he gets his comeuppance...His feeling returning was interesting to me as well. I had that same thought, That doing something as vile as that would wake him up and thats why he did it...but perhaps I was trying to idealize the situation...
To me it is like Thomas can't be harmed because he is the 'prophetic one' I think that it was a culmination of his guards SURGING because someone was so kind to him. He couldn't comprehend that because it had been out of his scope for so long.
I think that combined with his feeling, his libido, and straight hormones just probably forced him into some state he couldn't control. Then again people rationalize it as saying he knew he was in a dream state. To me, I couldn't handle doing it in a dream state any more than in a real state. I guess that I don't exactly see our 'reality' as all that different from a dream. That isn't to say that I disrespect both, but rather that I have more respect for my dreams as my life, they are both subjective experiences that influence my thought.
I think Thomas was so distant from innocence that he forgot what it was.
Wow, this book is pulling on some hard emotions for me.
After I read the first few chapters, I was so scared **I'll explain below** that I went and looked it up: indeed, the United States has a National Leprosarium in Louisiana. People liver there, get married there, and are taken care of by Sisters who have the compassion to dedicate their lives to them. There are photos there of people sitting at a bar run by the colonists for their own entertainment.
I'm struck by how Thomas convinces himself that he has to 'play along with the dream' in order to not go insane. Its a direct parallel to his 'real' life, where Leprosy is something he just has to 'roll with' but never allow himself to feel.
So he treats this amazing land the same way he treats leprosy, as some curse that he just needs to "roll with" and never let touch him. Like some kind of complete emotional nerve block to match his numbness. But he is a failure, his emotions still exist, and they are pain and anger. But by making them constant, never changing, he is numb to them, too.
I have to admit that after Chapter 7,
I was very disturbed by his character. I remember thinking about how I was going to answer Enty's questions while reading the opening chapters. I decided I couldn't type Thomas or decide if I liked him because he was so wrapped in an artificial shell of misery that it made me think that we would learn who he was later as he unwound.
Obviously, raping Lena makes me hate him. I wonder if his 'story' of his wife and child are even accurate. One gets the feeling that he is not telling lies, but can I really know now?
I tried to rationalize his behavior by claiming that he thinks of her as 'not real', but what is more real than someone evoking emotions in you?
NeverAmI's points make sense to me, that somehow she was attacking his wall and was repressed in a way he couldn't control. Perhaps one could argue that he was living in the 'real world' repressed and behind a wall that he reinforced but that other people made, and that , like Never says, in a world where the other side is not maintaining there pressure against him he just explodes.
But still, I find this hard to understand, and now I don't know what to make of his character. I find myself wondering what happened to Lena, and not really caring about what happens to Thomas.
About why I was scared:
I have minor psoriasis and some mediocre nerve damage. I have experienced numbness, pain, and some of these other issues, but never complete loss of feeling except for about 4 months 5 years ago. The pressure around the numb area is something I am familiar with. its your only sensation of what might be happening within the numb region. Having had both deformed flesh and temporary nerve damage (not combined, fortunately) the thought of his illness scares me to death.
When I did lose some of my sense of touch, it was inside my body in internal regions where we don't normal think we have proprioception and touch feeling. The result was partly wonder that something was missing that until then I had never thought I had, combined with a kind of awe that there was this 'balloon of nothingness' inside my body. To be honest, I blocked out how I felt about it because it was mostly despair. I remember I learned to try to focus on my other senses. Smell became more important, as did vision. Stretching and meditation became crucial. I liked to take walks through pleasant neighborhoods. But it was not a positive experience.
I am all to familiar with the look on people's face as you confront them with deformity. Sometimes it can be embarrassing to try to pay at a cashier. I just have very little psoriasis, just one spot on my left thumb about the size of the quarter, but it is quite hideous. I have learned to habitually turn my hand over when I pay cashiers with money, so that the cashier can't see it. Otherwise, I end up feeling guilty as the look of disgust usually appears on their face. Other times I just feel really angry. I've even said "it is not contagious" but it didn't really help. Perhaps I should try "leper outcast unclean!"? Anyway, I receive just a "hint" of Thomas's pain, so I know how horrible it is. But don't misconstrue this, I'm fine and I look perfectly normal except for my one thumb. Just one little peak of insight into what he is going through. When I was 24, though, my doctors told me they did not know how far it would advance, and my grandmother is 'covered' in it, so I was (perhaps still am) very afraid.
But to see how Thomas has unwound, when presented with opportunity, with aggression and hate, rather than thankfulness, is appalling to me. Perhaps he hates what it means to be human, now.
Anyway, this book is going to take a toll on me, I can tell, but I think it is worth it.
if you don't mind (since I'm why behind) I would like to ad my toughts about the first chapters.
First of all, as far as I know, lebrosis is very easily curable these days. It doesn't even cost that much and it is not a lifelong treatment. Maybe when this book was written; 1982 (I wasn't even born then :becky there was no treatment yet?
Man it hurt so much to read the chapter about the lebrosis. How can anyone stand to live that way? Without any form of communication, nobody who touches you, who lookes at you, who wants to acknowledge your existance? Even doing an effort to get rid of you completely? And that is not all of it, like the book explains, loosing your abbilty to feel and touch is tremendous. I never concidered that touch is so important but it is true, you sometimes can't trust your eyes or ears, but you always trust your touch. Imagine living with two hands who are not even there? Touching a tree and not knowing you are touching it? Walking on foot you only know they are there because you see them, like walking on your angles...
I was completely draged into the story, the missery, feeling sorry for him, feeling his pain untill ... chapter three ... he lost me completely there. I lost all contact with Covenant, with reality. 3 pages of text with only new names of unknown persons and countries of an unknown world. It is always difficult to be trown in a fantasy roman but this one was really difficult. But starting from his encounter with the girl, I gradually came back into the story and now I'm going to find out what happens next
