I find it hard to date....
- Thread starter dvdt24
- Start date
- Jun 11, 2011
- 49
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- MBTI
- INFJ(KTS-II)
- Enneagram
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@dvdt24
Hello, dear soulbrother
I feel quite the same way, sometimes. I think, it depends on my mood, when I am yearning for romance.
If approx. 80% of people are "sensers", it's very difficult for us "intuitives" to find "the one".
I assume that NF-types like we are, would fit best with NT's or others NF's (=> http://keirsey.com
http://edgeoforder.org/difference.html)
http://www.pomona.edu/Magazine/pcmfl05/FSkeirsey.shtml
I guess that pick up artists often are SP's http://www.keirsey.com/4temps/artisan_overview.asp, players, artisans, opposite of NF's, but maybe we could learn sth from them, not that we become pick-up-artists, but that we understand seduction and what most women attracts to men(?)
Yes, I am an INFJ, I' mot cynical. I just think, that we should be cautious when dreaming too much about "the one and only" and trying to avoid the idealization of a girl/ woman, please get me right: I am still romantic, deep, emotional and honest, but I also try to be a little cheeky and funny when talking with women (wasn't always so), but still trying to be fair&correct (not alienating her completely ;-) - maybe have a look at these links:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=oneitis
http://www.pick-up-artist-forum.com/
First, there's the need to love yourself and because thats not possible you should try to like you as much as you can. You will appear more attractive if you feel comfortable in yourself (maybe change your looks, do some sport, work on your social skills...)
Don't give up. Don't let you down. I know it's hard and it hurts everytime. We never know whats next, sometimes, things happen that we never thought about. But try to be active (a bit), to be open and speak to women...
Then, learn to be happy as single. Don't think that you will only be happy with a partner. your partner can't make you happy, it's only you that make yourself happy.
For me, most important thing in my life was that I found a soulmate, with whom I can really connect with deeply. He is gay and he fell in love with me, which made me feel good, bc I had been very lonely in those times...
I am not gay, but I love my friend like my brother in a platonic way
So, what really matters is friendship, not romance, the ideal of love, the combination of sexual attraction and the "attraction of the souls."
Maybe we all expect to much of life. JFK said that we should ask ourselves what we can do for our country instead of asking what our country can do for us and V. Frankl adapted this to: We should ask ourselves what life expects from us instead of what we can expect from life.
If you can accept that life is not perfect, and if you compare yourself to those who have less, you suddenly become very grateful for what you have - your family, your friends and your health.
hope that was helpful for you
love&all the best
CiMoon
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I understand how I may come off as. But no, i'm not desperate. I do enjoy my time being single. But what I need you to also understand is that it's a yearning feeling for companionship. I appreciate the time you took to write everything out so, thanks.
Active and open? Yea I am... But I rarely consider the girls who i meet during this "active and open" period. I think it's probably cause of my set of values and so on. It always hurts to be let down and you're right, but I too know that we can't just give up on life just cause of a few falls and scratches.
And life isn't perfect, it's something that i've known for a long time and i've embraced in my fight to combat loneliness. There are many times that i've imagined going into mid life being single all the way. Why? Well it's been 3 years and 5 months that i've been single already. So the reality kinda sets into the soul.
Anyways all in all thanks for taking the time to write that article out, don't worry i'm not giving up yet. Just here for some emotional support i guess? =)
And yes, i can relate to the loving your friends thing, cause personally friends are very important to me too. Don't have many, very selective, but if i'm your friend then you can put your life in my hands if needed you get what i mean? Anyways cheers =)
Active and open? Yea I am... But I rarely consider the girls who i meet during this "active and open" period. I think it's probably cause of my set of values and so on. It always hurts to be let down and you're right, but I too know that we can't just give up on life just cause of a few falls and scratches.
And life isn't perfect, it's something that i've known for a long time and i've embraced in my fight to combat loneliness. There are many times that i've imagined going into mid life being single all the way. Why? Well it's been 3 years and 5 months that i've been single already. So the reality kinda sets into the soul.
Anyways all in all thanks for taking the time to write that article out, don't worry i'm not giving up yet. Just here for some emotional support i guess? =)
And yes, i can relate to the loving your friends thing, cause personally friends are very important to me too. Don't have many, very selective, but if i'm your friend then you can put your life in my hands if needed you get what i mean? Anyways cheers =)
Hello
i get what you mean. most of the people i meet,dont "get" me. its a tough life for us singles. i struggle with loneliness most of the time but simultaneously, solitude calms me. i crave for a soul-mate relationship which i find the most satisfying.
hang in there
i get what you mean. most of the people i meet,dont "get" me. its a tough life for us singles. i struggle with loneliness most of the time but simultaneously, solitude calms me. i crave for a soul-mate relationship which i find the most satisfying.
hang in there
I feel just the same way. I feel uncomfortable with getting to know somebody just with the intent to see if they're a match though I've done this a couple of times.
I'm more inclined to know a person well before perhaps taking it to the next step. The drawback with this is that you might be sorted into the friend zone...
God I feel like I belong in the 19th century...
I'm more inclined to know a person well before perhaps taking it to the next step. The drawback with this is that you might be sorted into the friend zone...
God I feel like I belong in the 19th century...
This is one of those unfortunate points where the INFJ male personality does not integrate well with female instincts. The only advice I can give here is going to seem very callous and harsh.
http://www.laddertheory.com/
While the manner of presentation is an attempt at humor from a shameless jackass, there is a lot of truth to this.
The reason for this is that women are biologically predisposed to attract a protector. They bleed one week out of the month. They carry children internally for close to a year, then carry them physically for a few years after that. They were constantly attracting predators, and the ones who couldn't spot a good protector and win him generally didn't live long enough to pass on this flawed trait. Therefore, modern women have a very strong instinct to be attracted to 'strength' as they percieve it. Some women see this as physical strength, others financial security, others intelligence, etc.
The most important factor for us INFJ males is setting ourselves up as a potential mate from the onset. Otherwise, we get assigned to their Communal Instinct, which is the other self preservation instinct that females have. They have an instinct for a primary protector, and for community security. Hence, the 'two ladders'.
The problem is, in order to work with female instinct, we INFJ males have to present interest from the beginning and show ourselves to be 'strong' without letting ourselves become a woman's friend until after we've initiated the relationship. And that's absolutely counter to who we are on so many levels. Worst of all, in order to find a successful relationship, we have to start relationships knowing they will likely fail and hurt the person in question.
Life's not fair, and this is one of the areas that we INFJ males are at a disadvantage.
I feel like I belong in a community of Elves or some alien race that moves through the mating process the way I do. Friends, Good Friends, Close Friends, Cuddle Buddies, and then Lovers. Unfortunately, that's not how biology works.
I find putting your efforts into not worrying over this subject is the first step. INFJ's tend to worry to the point things go wrong, this is also within relationships. Worrying only creates a problem, not avoids it. Also your 23, still really young got lots of mistakes to make, as do we all.
Funny is that you put words on my last relationship. We didn't know each other too well but I went straight against my instincts and plunged head-first into it and it worked.
This is a thing that I'm slowly trying to adapt to. Never ever become close friends if you have a deeper intention.
Seems that I'm saying what most ppl already have said in this thread but this is my piece of life experience
.This is a thing that I'm slowly trying to adapt to. Never ever become close friends if you have a deeper intention.
Seems that I'm saying what most ppl already have said in this thread but this is my piece of life experience
I keep hearing people say this type of thing, and "love will find you when you're not looking for it" etc, etc. but to be honest I don't think that's really the case, you have to actively pursue who you're interested in and you have to be looking in order to find. you likely won't just stumble into a relationship. (or you might, I'm actually conflicted on this point now :/) but I the "stop looking" type advice that people sometimes seem to give is bad advice to be honest. I wasn't looking for 4 years and it got me nothing but feelings of worthlessness. As a man you have to look and to initiate.
This is an interesting conundrum, fellas, because INFJ women can be skittish, and some of us to want to fall in love with our best friend. Maybe you feel you have enough good friendships, but to negate creating a close bond (especially to an INFJ woman) due to not wanting to be "friend zoned" seems harsh & shallow to me.
We need time to discern your intentions, and, for me personally, a desire to get in my pants is not what you wanna lead with. Dead in the water.
I would assume some of us came here only for friendship, and had no romantic intentions in mind.
This being said, I realize I have never been a male, so I can't conceive of the difficulties from your perspective, and I appreciate you sharing your struggles.
We need time to discern your intentions, and, for me personally, a desire to get in my pants is not what you wanna lead with. Dead in the water.
I would assume some of us came here only for friendship, and had no romantic intentions in mind.
This being said, I realize I have never been a male, so I can't conceive of the difficulties from your perspective, and I appreciate you sharing your struggles.
It is, and we hate it.
However, this is one of the reasons I like NF women so much. They are much more open to the friends first approach to dating. NF women are much slower to put a guy in the "Friend Zone", as being NF keeps them romantic and open to possibility until all doubt is removed.
Unfortunately, even with NF women, it's easy for a guy to put himself in the friend zone.
This isn't discussing leading with a desire to get in your pants. It's leading with a desire to "be with you". It's the intention of wanting a relationship, and moving from that perspecitve, rather than pussyfooting around the issue, testing the water, and slowly deciding if the friendship could grow into a relationship. I honestly don't think INFJ males are capable of just trying to get into someone's pants without feeling terrible about it. What's being discussed here is the difference between being assertive about the relationship from the get go vs. finding your soul mate via best friends. All of the standard dating procedures that build the relationship still apply. We're discussing the "opening", and the big mistake that can be made there.
On the forums? I can only speak for myself, but it was pretty far from my mind. The distant possibility exists, but I'm pretty sure this thread is talking about real life dating.
That said, if I were to meet someone amazing on the forums... I've had a few forum crushes. But the problem is, I'm aware of the long distance issues, and wouldn't want to hurt anyone by starting something I might not want to finish, so I probably wouldn't ever approach anyone on the forums with the intention of dating, no matter how huge my crush was.
And that's a really important point to make about INFJ males and dating. The more we like someone, the more we try to protect them. Unfortunately, this means protecting them from being hurt by our insincere intentions if it turns out we don't want them... and there in lies our self defeating cycle. I've always said, "I do amazing with women I don't want." This is because I'm less concerned with hurting their feelings if I change my mind later.
Thanks. It's really difficult being an INFJ male. We're wired rather feminine, yet have the drive to fill our masculine social roles (Fe), which brings with it a host of things we're just not (Te, Si, etc). But, at the same time, we've got a very masculine set of instincts at our core (Se). The real problem comes from the fact that being an INFJ male pretty much predisposes us to want a true love, but sets us up to have a lot of difficulty finding her.
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Happens all the time. We're Perception dominant (Ni). That makes us quite prone to following reactive whim.
To be honest, my experience has been that probably more women do want romantic relationships to grow out of friendships. But the thing is that saying "I just want to be friends" sounds nicer than saying "I just don't want you as my partner".