How do you envision God? | Page 3 | INFJ Forum

How do you envision God?

I don't believe in any God. If there was one, we wouldn't be able to understand it because if we did then we would already know. So what's the point to trying to think about something you'll never know?

The 'Universe' is random. Chaos exists. Peace exists. It's not balanced either. Everything is totally random and there's nothing you or I can do it about other than continue living our daily lives. If time travel existed, everything that exists has already happened so you couldn't go back and change things or prevent things from happening. Does everything happen for a reason? That's personal perception. I personally think that all tragic events we personally benefit from by either floating or sinking. Some people waste their lives. Some people don't. How do you define wasting a life? That's for you to decide.

There is no right and wrong. Only what you've been told. Right and Wrong comes from Society. If you lived in a desolate forrest and had no contact with humans at all, you wouldn't know it was wrong to steal or lie or cheat.

It's a difficult topic I think because if we didn't have these mechanisms for controlling the human populations' beliefs, we'd have to figure out something else to control them with. The media, I guess.
 
slant said:
I don't believe in any God. If there was one, we wouldn't be able to understand it because if we did then we would already know. So what's the point to trying to think about something you'll never know?

The 'Universe' is random. Chaos exists. Peace exists. It's not balanced either. Everything is totally random and there's nothing you or I can do it about other than continue living our daily lives. If time travel existed, everything that exists has already happened so you couldn't go back and change things or prevent things from happening. Does everything happen for a reason? That's personal perception. I personally think that all tragic events we personally benefit from by either floating or sinking. Some people waste their lives. Some people don't. How do you define wasting a life? That's for you to decide.

There is no right and wrong. Only what you've been told. Right and Wrong comes from Society. If you lived in a desolate forrest and had no contact with humans at all, you wouldn't know it was wrong to steal or lie or cheat.

It's a difficult topic I think because if we didn't have these mechanisms for controlling the human populations' beliefs, we'd have to figure out something else to control them with. The media, I guess.
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While I do not wish to question your view of things, I do question whether we as humans would know right from wrong.
 
I try not to envision Him. I think that whatever I try to imagine will just get in the way of what He is really like.

I think that whereas we are completely complicated, He is completely simple.
 
Reply to Slant:

chaos cannot be prevalent and is extremely rare. If chaos were prevalent, it would be impossible to even hope that your pushing a key on your keyboard would have any connection to what appears on the screen.

The fact that we can understand the universe (and predict what will happen according to cause and effect) is because it is ordered.
 
God is a fractal. Infinity created by a finite equation.

[YOUTUBE]G_GBwuYuOOs[/YOUTUBE]
 
Flavus Aquila said:
I try not to envision Him. I think that whatever I try to imagine will just get in the way of what He is really like.

I think that whereas we are completely complicated, He is completely simple.
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I missed your coming here and wish to welcome you. Your eagle says a lot in so little words.
 
just me said:
Finding oneself at the crossroads mentioned, there becomes a third choice in the path we must choose rather than just two. As long as there are just right and wrong we feel secure.
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Could you explain a little further what you mean by this? I'm intrigued, but am unsure I understand. Thanks.
 
dylan said:
But as far as what God "is," separate from a visual representation, I kind of think of the word "God" as a verb. "God" is becoming. Everything is constantly becoming itself, and that ever-creative force is God.
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I like what you say here very much.
 
Flavus Aquila said:
Reply to Slant:

chaos cannot be prevalent and is extremely rare. If chaos were prevalent, it would be impossible to even hope that your pushing a key on your keyboard would have any connection to what appears on the screen.

The fact that we can understand the universe (and predict what will happen according to cause and effect) is because it is ordered.
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I know I am replying on behalf Slant and I want to stress that what I write doesn't nescessarily represent her opinion, only mine. However, I do agree with her so your criticism is aimed towards my world view aswell.

What I believe: Chaos is the underlying nature of existence. Our universe is but a bubble of order, of cosmological constants that govern the laws of nature as we know them and are responsible for pretty much everything, formed within the chaos, a lot like the bubbles of air in boiling water.

just me said:
While I do not wish to question your view of things, I do question whether we as humans would know right from wrong.
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Right, wrong, good and evil are subjective values. They are programmed to us by evolution and by our cultiral frameworks. They are not absolute, and without humans making the judgements, they don't exist.
 
I feel that in a way we are all little gods here. We can create and destroy. I do believe in God and when I feel his presence when I pray I get the sense that he is all around me and that he is everything I see and hear. It would be hard for me to put it into words. I get a very warm and secure feeling when I pray its a very deep emotion...
 
tovlo said:
Could you explain a little further what you mean by this? I'm intrigued, but am unsure I understand. Thanks.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrDxe9gK8Gk&eurl=&feature=player_embedded


The road to denying oneself
Is not a road to self denial
But a path we must choose
To understand survival

It becomes the giving of oneself as a vessel. There were words spoken on this earth that many people could not handle. "To deny oneself and follow Me" was a group of words that had many turn away. To me, truth was offering itself but there first had to be an emptying before the filling. Most then looked at earthly things, as do many now. Indeed, one must be willing to give up earthly things if asked to, but that really was not the message I feel. Other words were spoken that turned even more away; though they,
too, had spiritual meanings moreso than earthly meanings concerning things. When the bread of life and the blood was spoken of, many turned away.
I feel the need to listen, though to hear is simple. I speak of spiritual things also, not worldly things. To hear one must listen, which designates a need for self denial. It takes time to listen, and few there be willing to give of their time to see if there is something to hear.
 
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Marc - I see your point about chaos. But the smallest amount of order changes all chaos (as much a little chaos disrupts perfect order). But I feel that order is stronger than chaos, because if you have even one firm thing in an entirely chaotic, random universe, that entire universe can be compared and measured against that single point of order.
(like in your example - if you have an infinite ocean of water, with a single little bubble in it, not matter where in the ocean you are, you are no longer lost, but at a perceivable distance from that single lone bubble).


PS - just me - that video you posted is the most moving thing I have ever seen on youtube.
 
just me said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrDxe9gK8Gk&eurl=&feature=player_embedded


The road to denying oneself
Is not a road to self denial
But a path we must choose
To understand survival

I am but rambling. I will indulge myself with your question in a bit. It becomes the giving of oneself as a vessel.
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Maybe I'm beginning to understand.

It feels so simple and so contradictorily complex. That video left me sobbing, jm. Somewhere in the eye of the camera of that video is me. I'm afraid to be me. I spoke of refusing to surrender to my church, but the bigger thing is that without my church I don't have the courage to surrender to humanity. I don't have the courage to stand out on the street and just love. I build barricades around myself to protect my sense of self. I isolate myself and begin to hate those who would disrupt that security. I lose the point. I believe that. I truly believe that. I've lost the point. It just takes so much energy to keep standing myself. I idealize the other and think if I just love it will be OK, but I've grown cynical and afraid. It's so hard to love and stay strong yourself. I don't know. That video had a profound electric shock effect, wakening a sleeping sense of self and idealism I sedated years and years ago in favor of the day-to-day the practicalities of life, but I don't know what to do with it. I feel too weak to do anything with it by myself.

I'm not sure what you meant to communicate, but you communicated something very powerful to me, jm.
 
Go back and listen again now that the words are there to follow up, I beg of you.
 
I don't define God, it defines me(us).
 
lol, thanks.
 
Words mean so many different things to so many different people.
We are a people. I think there is an inherent connection between us all.
I feel understanding must come from many different directions, as we are shown each of us many different things.
 
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