Have you experienced the "numinous"? (without drugs)
- Thread starter Stu
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I'm not very open about discussing such things. People with strong religious beliefs often find my opinions on the matter disturbing. Others tend to think I'm trying to sell them something. So instead of stirring the pot of religious fervor I tend to let it be.
I'm not really familiar with the term or idea.
I'd like to be, though.
Why did you decide to start a thread about this?
Do you have an experience?
If you shared a bit more information, particuliarly where you are coming from on the topic I'd like to discuss it.
I have experienced fleeting moments where I feel myself and everything and everyone else intricately and intimately woven into one..and it's a very ecstatic experience (not drug induced either). Difficult to say what brings it on.
I chose three...
One of the experiences was something to do with sitting outside and meditating on the moon and the air and, every natural sensation of my surroundings. I'm going to liken it to making love, actual love to someone you are actually in love with. It wasn't a sexual experience.. but there was something to it. In my limited understanding, that's the best description I can give.
Now I'm reminded of that thread on schizosexuality by Lyra.
I'd like to be, though.
Why did you decide to start a thread about this?
Do you have an experience?
If you shared a bit more information, particuliarly where you are coming from on the topic I'd like to discuss it.
I have experienced fleeting moments where I feel myself and everything and everyone else intricately and intimately woven into one..and it's a very ecstatic experience (not drug induced either). Difficult to say what brings it on.
I chose three...
One of the experiences was something to do with sitting outside and meditating on the moon and the air and, every natural sensation of my surroundings. I'm going to liken it to making love, actual love to someone you are actually in love with. It wasn't a sexual experience.. but there was something to it. In my limited understanding, that's the best description I can give.
Now I'm reminded of that thread on schizosexuality by Lyra.
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I chose options 1, 3, and 5.
And yep, no drugs involved.
That said, the influence of set and setting cannot be denied.
All you have to do is open yourself to it - make yourself vulnerable.
Setting aside your conscious mind is helpful, however you wish to do that. It can be invited back to the table if it doesn't get unruly or concerned with ego stuff.
Not much more to say really - I consider those moments in time to be ineffable.
Namaste,
Ian
And yep, no drugs involved.
That said, the influence of set and setting cannot be denied.
All you have to do is open yourself to it - make yourself vulnerable.
Setting aside your conscious mind is helpful, however you wish to do that. It can be invited back to the table if it doesn't get unruly or concerned with ego stuff.
Not much more to say really - I consider those moments in time to be ineffable.
Namaste,
Ian
I've had two experiences like this in the form of dreams. One of them was very frightening. No drugs involved. I must add I'm skeptical of it being something more than a product of my subconsciousness.
I have never equated this with anything "religious" per say, I believe it's spiritual. Afterall, we are all spiritual beings, but unfortunately, our society here in North America doesn't really instill spiritualism, sadly comercialism; but that's another subject...
I have found that at times in my life, both with trying for it and with it hitting me spontaniousely, that I have experienced sensations of weightlessness, peace, profound knowledge, lack of emotions, electricity, and a whole ton of grace and worldly understanding and tollerance. Only when the sensation begins to disapate, I do feel a sense of sadness because I feel so "at home" somehow while I'm feeling it. Some of these times, it has been accompanied with being able to see things that others have claimed not to see while with me. I have never had these experiences with the assistance of drugs nor with a fever.
I have found that at times in my life, both with trying for it and with it hitting me spontaniousely, that I have experienced sensations of weightlessness, peace, profound knowledge, lack of emotions, electricity, and a whole ton of grace and worldly understanding and tollerance. Only when the sensation begins to disapate, I do feel a sense of sadness because I feel so "at home" somehow while I'm feeling it. Some of these times, it has been accompanied with being able to see things that others have claimed not to see while with me. I have never had these experiences with the assistance of drugs nor with a fever.
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I started this thread because this is the central issue of human life. (I think.... anyway uh yeah)
I left home at 18 and drove from NJ to the western US in an old Chevy Impala. I picked up a bumb, hobo, hitchhiking in NJ and he traveled with me to Colorado. It was a multiple day ride, in September. While in Indiana we pulled off the highway on a side road with corn growing high all around us. He pulled some ripe corn off the stalks and we ate them, it was delicious. That night as I tried to sleep in the front seat and he in the back, it occurred to me that this man could kill me in my sleep and take my car and my money and that would be the end of it. It struck me as a very real possibility. As I lay their I also realized that God would love me as I died this horrible death. I felt dizzy, my consciousness merged with my unconsciousness and both felt or knew or believed they were merging with a divine or transcendental consciousness. It was an intense love.
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That sounds.. incredible and amazing apostelytizer..
I have another one that may be an example of such an experience..
I wasn't in any spiritual frame of mind or anything when this happened. In fact, I was hyper concerned with being late to an obligation...
I was driving in a thunderstorm. It was pouring and dark out and I went to take a curve and my car spun out of control into on coming traffic.
It felt like the spinning and swerving happened for a long time.
Enough time for me to think: "I'm probably going to die like this," only to have the thought automatically countered with: "Impossible, for now at least."
And I just knew then that I would regain control and there would be no damage and nobody would get hurt. I was completely calm about it, I felt reassured somehow.
It felt as if someone else was in complete control. I didn't feel love or joy, I just felt calm and as if I was waiting for some mistake to be corrected and then let go on my merry way.
I'm not a religous person. The idea of fate makes me uncomfortable yet in that moment, I just knew that I wasn't in control, but someone or something else was.
Take it for what it's worth. It could have been purely a psychological means of coping with a disaster or not. I'm skeptical. I've had all sorts of what could be called spiritual experiences that I don't really believe even though they've happened to me. Lots of cognitive dissonance there.
I have another one that may be an example of such an experience..
I wasn't in any spiritual frame of mind or anything when this happened. In fact, I was hyper concerned with being late to an obligation...
I was driving in a thunderstorm. It was pouring and dark out and I went to take a curve and my car spun out of control into on coming traffic.
It felt like the spinning and swerving happened for a long time.
Enough time for me to think: "I'm probably going to die like this," only to have the thought automatically countered with: "Impossible, for now at least."
And I just knew then that I would regain control and there would be no damage and nobody would get hurt. I was completely calm about it, I felt reassured somehow.
It felt as if someone else was in complete control. I didn't feel love or joy, I just felt calm and as if I was waiting for some mistake to be corrected and then let go on my merry way.
I'm not a religous person. The idea of fate makes me uncomfortable yet in that moment, I just knew that I wasn't in control, but someone or something else was.
Take it for what it's worth. It could have been purely a psychological means of coping with a disaster or not. I'm skeptical. I've had all sorts of what could be called spiritual experiences that I don't really believe even though they've happened to me. Lots of cognitive dissonance there.
I would like to hear about the scary one. Numinous experience can be frightening and foreboding. They are not all sweetness and light.
At some points in my life, I believed I had felt the numinous presence of utter holiness and utter evil, of intense love and intense hatred. There is also that strange in-between state which is more paralyzing than utter evil. I can not describe it as anything else other than a spiritual void. In it no light exists, that place where the divine seems to withhold its presence, yet it does not allow any other spirit to enter but one's own. It is like a spiritual imprisonment, a solitary confinement, and it is the most frightening experience. Maybe it is some sort of test, or something that is forcing me to reconsider the presence of the divine in every day life. I always find myself crying out for God when I feel trapped in that spiritual state.
i think i may have experienced this the day before xmas. its an odd thing to describe but i didn't really feel scared of anything, as someone mentioned above it was more of a lack of emotion more than anything. i remember feeling like i was sinking into something deeper in myself and afterwards it felt like my self consciousness was pretty much out the window. i mean i was aware of what was happening, but not in a judging way, more like an indifferent/curious way. like i remember i would ask myself why i did certain things; like why i looked away from the lights when i turned them on or why i walked the way i do.
i remember that i became pretty interested in just about anything, and uninterested in things i would normally be interested in. like for ex i walked into the bathroom and was looking at the mirror and i noticed this black thread on my coat, and i began trying to figure out why it was there for quite awhile though i never figured it out. but thats when i noticed that when i walk in front of a mirror normally, i always look at myself. but i could've cared less about my own reflection, and more about why the mirror was there in the first place, what holds it in the frame and questions like that about what i normally wouldn't give two thoughts to.
i don't know how long it lasted, time felt like it had slowed down, maybe something like a half an hour or 45 minutes, but i know it started to happen a day or two later when i was watching a football game. i could feel myself starting to sink into myself again but i kind of choked it off and stopped it from happening. see it wasn't scary when it happened, but afterwards it was scary to me bc it felt like a different type of consciousness and i didn't want to be that way around other people. since then i haven't been able to get back there successfully. i feel like if i meditate, or self inquire then i become more aware of things, or feel like i am partially feeling what i did that night, but i haven't gotten back there to the same degree.
after reading the description of numinous im not sure if this is the same thing or not, but it did to me feel like a spiritual presence or a deeper level of conscious, i mean i don't know one way or the other. but i wrote about it in better detail in my journal so i could remember more specifically what happened.
i remember that i became pretty interested in just about anything, and uninterested in things i would normally be interested in. like for ex i walked into the bathroom and was looking at the mirror and i noticed this black thread on my coat, and i began trying to figure out why it was there for quite awhile though i never figured it out. but thats when i noticed that when i walk in front of a mirror normally, i always look at myself. but i could've cared less about my own reflection, and more about why the mirror was there in the first place, what holds it in the frame and questions like that about what i normally wouldn't give two thoughts to.
i don't know how long it lasted, time felt like it had slowed down, maybe something like a half an hour or 45 minutes, but i know it started to happen a day or two later when i was watching a football game. i could feel myself starting to sink into myself again but i kind of choked it off and stopped it from happening. see it wasn't scary when it happened, but afterwards it was scary to me bc it felt like a different type of consciousness and i didn't want to be that way around other people. since then i haven't been able to get back there successfully. i feel like if i meditate, or self inquire then i become more aware of things, or feel like i am partially feeling what i did that night, but i haven't gotten back there to the same degree.
after reading the description of numinous im not sure if this is the same thing or not, but it did to me feel like a spiritual presence or a deeper level of conscious, i mean i don't know one way or the other. but i wrote about it in better detail in my journal so i could remember more specifically what happened.
I would have to say the only time I've really felt this was under the influence of drugs. However, I do not believe it makes it an any less meaningful experience, the chemicals just made it accessible in a different way.
I didn't know there was a term for this. I've always called this feeling "God".
It's a blissful, ecstatic feeling that erupts and manifests in me in such a way that I can only cry in silent awe. Suddenly everything converges and everything makes sense. I feel even though God has been watching me all my life, I can suddenly begin to feel His presence and it's the warmest, coziest feeling I could ever describe. To be a part of something that's greater than one's being.
I've had these several times during the last few years... once while listening to a song, though usually while praying. I believe these might be transcendental.
It's a blissful, ecstatic feeling that erupts and manifests in me in such a way that I can only cry in silent awe. Suddenly everything converges and everything makes sense. I feel even though God has been watching me all my life, I can suddenly begin to feel His presence and it's the warmest, coziest feeling I could ever describe. To be a part of something that's greater than one's being.
I've had these several times during the last few years... once while listening to a song, though usually while praying. I believe these might be transcendental.
People who have previously come into contact with channeling, meditation, etc. are more likely to experience supernatural phenomena.
Opening the channel of yourself to the external spiritual world is similar to opening your house for anyone to come in...including the unwanted visitors. Once they are let in, it is more difficult to kick them out afterwards.
Some interesting read:
Escape from a New Age Cult
Deliverance from New Age Spirit Channeling
MARCIA'S STORY: A STRANGE BUT TRUE SPIRITUAL JOURNEY
:ranger:
Opening the channel of yourself to the external spiritual world is similar to opening your house for anyone to come in...including the unwanted visitors. Once they are let in, it is more difficult to kick them out afterwards.
Some interesting read:
Escape from a New Age Cult
Deliverance from New Age Spirit Channeling
MARCIA'S STORY: A STRANGE BUT TRUE SPIRITUAL JOURNEY
:ranger:
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I called it an epiphany though. It was such an empowering moment. As if the whole world was in my palm... I could do anything, everything was possible; I could see it, feel it.
Okay, looking back... I think this experience was slightly different from what you guys experienced, but perhaps, we're just seeing it differently. I mean, I did feel ecstatic, as if I was more, a lot more~~It was transcendental.
To me it wasn't religious at all.... On the contrary, I felt My presence more than anything else's, I felt like my own God. (O.k. Maybe that was a bit blasphemous to say xD)
Okay, looking back... I think this experience was slightly different from what you guys experienced, but perhaps, we're just seeing it differently. I mean, I did feel ecstatic, as if I was more, a lot more~~It was transcendental.
To me it wasn't religious at all.... On the contrary, I felt My presence more than anything else's, I felt like my own God. (O.k. Maybe that was a bit blasphemous to say xD)