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Discussion in 'History, Travel, and Culture' started by kfg(atj, Feb 7, 2019.
Trump is evil and I will leave it with this picture caption:
I feel like I am definitely open minded in hearing other perspectives. I completely understand what you're talking about in terms of neural pathways and how to reset them. This is something that I've researched a lot on due to my own experiences with depression and I never considered that certain drugs/organic botanicals (whatever is PC - lol) could work for some people in accomplishing that. For me personally, my anxiety was heightened and so I don't think it'd work for me, but that's wonderful if you're seeing positive results. I know the struggle with depression all too well. I think, as with most topics, it has to be considered on an individual basis. What works for one, may not work for all. In terms of religious correlation, I think my thoughts and opinions are my own to sort through and come to terms with. I don't promote my thoughts or feelings being the absolute and I hope they don't come off that way, I just say them for the sake of conversation drivers. Especially when I'm not 100% on something, throwing my thought out there can deliver information like yours that can help me mold a more concrete opinion. Thank you for engaging!
Quite appropriately to this discussion, that little baby has a mushroom hat on.
No...thank you! I find it wonderful that you have so much personal faith. They are doing trials on psilocybin right now through the FDA to make it able to be prescribed under proper supervision because it does have such drastic results for many people. But I fully respect your views and opinions and religious beliefs and am by no means trying to discredit or trample on those in any way! Yes...pot definitely causes anxiety for many people...it works on your GABA receptors though whereas psilocybin actually binds to the serotonin receptors in the brain. So they are very different in regards to how they work and effect the body. What sealed the deal for me was the lifetime of depression I experienced being under control (now for years) after a couple doses. The anxiety that was so bad I couldn’t talk on the phone to bill collectors...or I would self-induce heart palpitations just by thinking about it due to the amount of stress I was under...mornings were waking up into full blown panic attacks at 4am, with IBS to boot - were all gone or so insignificant I could easily deal. After trying countless antidepressants my whole life - something actually worked in a very significant manner, did not need to be taken every day or 3 times a day like most meds, and had no negative side-effects for me physiologically at all. It was that or shock treatment...something I was seriously considering at the time. So that is why I have such a positive view of things like entheogens (which is the proper term to use ((since you weren’t sure)) when speaking of using psychedelics for medicinal value as opposed to recreational), but like I said...I respect what you believe and I’m not trying to convince you or anyone otherwise...just throwing my personal thoughts and experience working with it as something to augment treatment for such difficult things. I kind of doubt I would still be alive today were it not for the help they gave me. Edit: Entheogen - An entheogen is a class of psychoactive substances that induce any type of spiritual experience aimed at development. The term entheogen is often chosen to contrast recreational use of the same drugs.
@selcouth ( and @Hostarius - indulge me and give me your impressions after watching one or both...does this change your perspective on entheogens - if used properly of course and for the right reasons? (((I think the guy would resonate more with an INTJ and the woman with us feelers lol))) For your humble consideration... Here are two interviews with terminal cancer patients who took part in psilocybin trials at John’s Hopkins Medical Center, for anxiety/depression resultant from terminal cancer diagnosis. (This guy is/was(?) actually a Psychologist himself) They have now done other such trials all around the world for not only death-anxiety, but generalized anxiety, traumatic, PTSD, and depressive forms, as well as drug/alcohol addiction/dependance and smoking cessation. Also trials with LSD being done in Sweden mostly with nearly similar results. MDMA is being used to treat PTSD and couples married for decades who have fallen out of love with one another with nearly 100% falling back in love or claiming to be even more in love than ever before after professional sessions and an MDMA nasal spray. You know, there really has been a systematic propaganda campaign against such substances ever since idiot Professors and other “undesirables" who should have known better, ruined the nearly 20+ years of research done previously in the 50’s and 60’s that guess what? Showed similar results and both were being utilized already in treatment settings within the US for a long time. It was the abuse by a few that pushed against those who wrote the laws that ended the ability for it to be therapeutically used. (The same thing happened to MDMA or “Ecstasy”, which was being therapeutically used in the 80’s for PTSD and anxiety, it was abused, outlawed, then demonized. Except now they are getting ready to introduce that nasal spray form available to prescribe...because it really helps people!) After which began a decades long push to reeducate the public who really didn’t know the full therapeutic effects possible, and the demonization worked very well and continues to work even now in spite of the “new” research from multiple hundreds of trials done in the past few years - before that, the FDA had a ban on it even being used to study...you could not study it, you have no access, no one would fund you anyhow. That changed several years ago and now we have a resurgence of “new” old data. As far as anxiety is concerned...since you suffer from it...I would rather a lifetime of depression than 1 year of bad anxiety. I took them because of the anxiety. The process was not always pleasant...but it sure worked! Anxiety vanished like so much smoke. But to each their own...no worries ever with me please...not trying to convince you of anything you are not comfortable with personally (or spiritually!)...I don’t do that lol...just giving you my experiences and some of what I’ve learned!!! Please take care and much love!!
The sound made him look out the curtains It came to within 50 feet of the ground Well he's never been to Spain But has seen the sun at night The size a full moon appears Increasing and decreasing intensity Sounds of heavy voltage coming and going The dog was jumping at it til it sped away Seeing the dog's reactions was ominous Hearing it's power was ominous So he said
Orange Sunshine, it was called....mixed with synthetic Psilocybin in a gelatin capsule. It was best done alone and at night, but most people did it with others. It became clear where it got its name from. I was the guinea pig, and never did it again. Guys were going to sell it at school. I asked what it was like, and they didn't know. Strongest stuff I can recall, but it was pure. Cannot truthfully say it was a hallucinogen because of the reality of it. The dog still has me to wonder.
Ok this is the cutest thing I ever seen. THE HAT. Dear lord the hat... my heart... I’m too young to have kids. I’m too young to have kids. I’m too young to have kids. I’m too young to have kids.
Another INFJ here who has no interest in drugs. It's refreshing to hear that others are of similar opinion - not interested in losing control, not needing any help getting deep and spiritual, etc. I do enjoy the blur I feel when drinking, to an extent, but I am not a heavy drinker by any means. Would you explain a bit more about the receptors you refer to and why they aren't your favorite? I live in a pot-legal state and have many friends who are totally embracing the opportunity for legal experimentation. I have no interest. I think it is because I see people get shallow when they are stoned and then not remember the conversations we've had. I want to be fully present in my interactions with people, especially when we share deep moments. But I did start using CBD about five months ago for chronic pain and it had the miraculous side effect of significantly easing my anxiety, which nothing had ever helped. So I've continued using that. And I often think, what is the line between CBD-rich cannabis and THC-rich cannabis? They are just different variations on the same thing. So does that make me a weed user? Maybe? I take a tincture that a friend makes (she has a business) with strict protocols for zero THC. But it's whole-plant tincture, so it tastes like...skunk. So I'm questioning my own biases. I don't think of this as a drug, but a supplement. But I do think of weed as a drug. Still trying to figure out my thoughts on that. And part of me thinks, well, I should try lots of things...maybe I should try pot once. But then I think, bleah, give me ONE GOOD REASON, because I'm not thinking of any.
Oh, wait! I did take a Xanax, once, by prescription, and it was terrifying. So never again on that. And a percodan after I got my wisdom teeth out, and that made me loopy and terrified also. Later in life, I took some...oxycontin or oxycodone, I forget which...after surgery, and I really did need the pain relief, and I experienced nothing good or bad except reduced pain, and no difficulty stopping. It wasn't even enough for my pain. But it did help. I take a lot of ibuprofen. Also get very blissed out on chocolate (I kid you not) but not coffee (which makes me feel jittery and awful). I have heard THC makes anxiety worse, which is why I'm sticking to CBD only. And I'm another who cannot stand the ashtray effect of being around smokers and would never try smoking for that reason.
Most of the time I take RSO oil, which you don’t smoke, it is the entire plant reduced to black tar goo, but it contains all the cannabinoids that have been shown to help with various conditions... I roll up a small bit in a little piece of bread or likewise. And there are differences in various types of pot...some make me anxious as all hell, while others work in the opposite way. It’s mostly been trial and error when searching for which ones work for me...and it’s very subjective in that way, just as some medications can be. As for those folk whom you describe as being your stereotypical “pothead” type person, I agree with you assessment. I view them in much the same way I view someone who has to be drunk in order to be more social or similarly when used in that manner. As far as the receptors in your brain go, CBD and THC don’t hit all the same ones or even work that similarly besides stimulating serotonin. Actually CBD and ~LSD~ bind to the same receptor...so when you hear about people micro-dosing LSD (a sub-hallucinogenic daily dose, 3 days on, 2 off) for depression, pain, anxiety...it actually works in a very similar manner releasing more serotonin and 5-HT, a precursor to serotonin and other neurochemicals....as well as ion channels that control pain perception. If you want more in-depth - https://www.projectcbd.org/science/how-cbd-works Whereas THC, primarily works on the GABA receptors (CBD does too, but as you can see, very differently) and glutamate (which works in conjunction with cortisol the “stress” hormone) and here is a very good explanation on why THC can induce and then also reduce anxiety depending on the person, type of cannabinoids in that particular strain, the person’s own neurochemistry, diet, etc. http://profofpot.com/thc-anxiety/ Also as far as THC goes, our body actually has receptors specifically for THC and various cannabinoids, which is very interesting in itself. http://headsup.scholastic.com/students/endocannabinoid There are various mixtures of both CBD/THC and either or. Also the RSO oil I take...and eating it often induces a completely different physiologic reaction than smoking it...it just depends. Some would make me anxious if I were to smoke it, but as an edible it helps me sleep when the pain is bad and nothing else is around. And as an edible, I’m not worried about it impacting my breathing like alcohol or opioids can...or harming my liver or kidneys or lungs. It is even safe to take with opioids because of that reason. How much ibuprofen do you take a day? That gets processed through your kidneys...so drink lots of fluids with it. I wouldn’t take more than 600 mg 3x a day (but this is internet medical advice keep in mind, I am not your doctor). Make sure your have no kidney issues. There are other NSAID medications that you would only need to take once a day to gain the same effect as so much ibuprofen, it may be worth your while to talk to the doctor about something needed less often. (On a side-note, if your body is physically inflamed somehow, this can cause new, or exacerbate existing anxiety...I wonder if your anxiety has more to do with your physical symptoms triggering excessive anxiety? Do you feel that the ibuprofen significantly helps or do you notice a mood change when you don’t take it?) You can also try L-theanine for your anxiety...it’s a natural amino acid found in green tea and various other plants. It’s sold just about everywhere in pill form...for anxiety the recommended daily dose is 200mg (I take this). It also works on your body’s glutamate system...glutamate again being the precursor to cortisol...and L-theanine activating your GABA receptors much like CBD and other various things do (including alcohol - though not recommended for long-term use lol). L-theanine is proven natural and safe with no side-effects I’ve ever had, I suppose for some it may make them drowsy, but it supposedly relaxes you without that effect. Link - https://www.integrativepsychiatry.n...for-what-ails-you-and-your-neurotransmitters/ Also, for pain I would check out turmeric/curcumin extracts...specifically those with black pepper extract also in them as that helps absorption into the body. This is also natural and has been proven to reduce inflammation in the body. What type of chronic pain do you have, maybe I can offer some suggestions as I primarily focus on chronic pain issues now and have even started to privately consult a couple people, which is exciting. CBD oil does not a pothead make. Neither does THC. It’s all in how it is used...what for...appropriate amounts for the condition...less is more...everything in moderation, and does it help you? Take care, hope that helps. Feel better!
Sorry, man, it looks like I missed this one. Before I watch this stuff, though, I should say that I'm against neither medicinal or recreational use of cannabis or other similar substances, I was just sharing an old gut reaction I had.
No, I understand. It was clear in what you wrote previously...just curious if it alters that old gut reaction afterward?
There were no distortions, nothing crawling around, no curtains blowing, no need to laugh, no wood paneling crawling around; I just could not walk. I could sit up, but could not make my legs work. The visit lasted about half an hour to an hour, and was gone. I do not understand your gif, but that's nothing new for me. I tried to watch as much as possible, and listen. Probably never smiled. Maybe I should keep the rest to myself.
Sounds like you had an ego dissolution and some kind of nice mystical experience that words probably don’t do justice. The gif is just a joke @just me , no deep meaning. Thanks for sharing more of your experience.
I really, at this time, do not relate to ego dissolution. Studying the drug, they mention spiritual more than mystical. It was dispensed by folk called themselves The Brotherhood of Love. The amount of orange in the mixture worried me for others. Told them about it at school the next day, thinking they would lower the dose. A guy in my next class bought one, dumped it out in a book, and snorted it with a straw. I had to carry him out of school and babysit him. He smiled a lot. Can you help me to understand ego dissolution related to psychedelics? Window Pane, Purple Haze, and the likes. As I said, the Orange Sunshine was much different.
The terminology for “ego dissolution” range from the very simple feelings of oneness or connection with all, a connection to nature or people/things, feeling more than just oneself, feeling like you are able to view your “self” from another perspective...all the way to very deep mystical or spiritual experiences (usually dependent, though not always, on someone’s beliefs and/or religious beliefs), feelings of being one with the universe, feelings of connections to or oneness with god, out of body experiences, where there is no discernible self per say directing the show. Not that the self isn’t there also...it just isn’t in charge like it was that’s all. Ego dissolution only references to the period of time where the ego is tamped down by the substance...or it can be reached through meditation also. Studies with fMRI machines on this very issue show how hyperconnected the brain becomes while under the influence...they have shown correlations between this hyper connectivity and ego dissolution and have concluded that it is this interconnectivity running along brain pathways that it normally does not that bring new thoughts, ways of thinking, new perspectives, a loss or partial loss of the (egoic)-“self" etc. Basically people feel more connected to everything else, because their brain IS more connected within itself, and the ego-self is not the one in charge...it’s like an orchestra with a conductor vs a jazz ensemble just free-form playing and jamming. It is also the loss of the “self” or partial loss that causes people to become anxious or have a “bad trip”. Mainly though it is the feelings of being connected somehow to all that it refers to. Your friend sounds like he was a bit of a handful, lol. Snorting it? Yikes! As far as the differences go....you had (and still do) a lot of underground chemists who would tweak this or that in the LSD to get this or that effect. Mostly though, they were just the names the guys who made the stuff gave them. Purple Haze is named for Owsley Stanley who mass produced LSD in 1960’s the music scene. Windowpane refers to LSD that is crystalline in nature. Orange Sunshine was created by Nicholas Sand and is LSD with a twist - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALD-52 Take care, hope that clarifies a few things for you.
Thank you for the link and your explanation. It helps to explain the lack of everything LSD by itself caused as opposed to the Orange Sunshine. "One account found that there was less visual distortion than with LSD and it seemed to produce less anxiety and tenseness and that it was somewhat less potent." from your link I would agree with everything except the less potent part, but do not know the dosage or how the Psilocybin may or may not have altered it. My reason for saying that is simple: it must have been potent for the dog to be barking and jumping at the pulsating orange globe that came from the sky, lowered to about 20 to 30' from the ground, glowed bright when the noise was intense, then lightly when the noise lowered. That happened about every five seconds. It was like it was looking for me and knew my whereabouts, lowered itself closer when I opened the curtain like making eye contact or some sort of connection with me, stayed a little while, then wizzed away at a steep angle into the skies to disappear. My central nervous system must have been affected, governing by the loss of walking or could not stand. We are supposed to be Protectors, are we not? All in all, I'm glad I had that experience and remember it like it was yesterday......now that the risk of danger or disaster is long gone. Would not try it again, though. There is no purpose. I cannot say it was or was not with God. I was connected to something, though. It was almost like seeing eye to eye with a wild animal and blinking at each other. Maybe God was protecting me? Who knows? Glad I was alone. I have never done heroin or fentanyl. "Fentanyl is a synthetic opioid that is 80-100 times stronger than morphine." copied That sounds like what Osama Bin Laden was trying to make before we went to Afghanistan. Maybe it was. He wanted to turn it into a liquid form, douse clothes with it, smuggle it in the clothing, get the liquid out of the clothing, and sell it to us. Cannot remember where I heard or read that. That sounds like playing with death to me. Please don't do this, anyone, or stop while you can. Get help if you need it. Change friends if you must. It is a bad ride to destruction. I do not condone drugs, but must acknowledge some drugs we need. We get them to get better, not worse. To deal with life's pains if we must. I have no problem with pot or hashish, but can't buy a gun legally if you do it recreationally unless you lie about it. Can't get pain meds if you do it, because they test your blood. I like hunting and shooting. If it were ALL legal with pot, might smoke it on occasion. Wish it was legal.