Do you ever notice Ti interfering with your Ni?

[VH]

I noticed today that the more my INTJ friends lean on their Fi, the less effective their Ni is. So this got me noticing that the more I use my Ti the less effective my Ni is... almost like the more I rely on how I think something works, the less I am able to just intuitively come to the answer.

The reason this is interesting is because when people go very introverted, they're relying on both of their introverted functions more than their extroverted ones. If doing so is watering down our dominant function, then it stands to reason that the ideal mental state is actually balanced between introversion and extroversion, leaning only slightly in favor of an individual's dominant function.

Thoughts?

 

[Poetic Justice]

There is no such thing as an ideal mental state. different situations call for different behaviours.

It may well be that we aren't as effective at some things when using certain functions but this, in my opinion is all the more reason to use them so they develop to the point of being useful.

You just need to know when it is appropriate to use them

 

[Adymus]

It is true that our lower two functions can truncate the production of our upper two functions, but this is not necessarily a bad thing. It is actually worse to let our two near side functions run unregulated than it is to every so often rein them in with our lower ones.

It shouldn't really be seen as "watering down" your Dominant and auxiliary, because we are actually refining what our dominant and auxiliary produces with our lower functions, which gives us an even stronger result.

I'll give you an example using my own type: I can use Ti and Ne alone to come up with theoretical models. However if I don't refine these models with Si and Fe, they will not be concrete, and they will be detached from how human beings actually work. To actually have a true understanding of something that can be related to other human beings, I would have to refine my Ti heavy model with holistic elements Fe in order to have something that people can actually relate to and apply. If Ne was never modulated by Si, all I would have is uncertain possibilities and no real answers that I could stand on.

Yes, this is in a sense slowing down my the production of my Ti-Ne, but it is a necessary sacrifice if I want to actually have a working model. Because pure Ti-Ne only fills in so much of the picture.

The same goes for Ni-Fe, it is your strongest and most reliable functions, but if they are not counter balanced in any way by Ti-Se, they will only produce unrealistic and illogical results.

This can be a bad thing however, when a person is over doing it. When they are over modulating their Top functions for unnecessary reasons and not letting them flow as freely as they should be. So the idea is to find a golden mean, knowing exactly when to let your functions flow, and when to rein them in.

(Believe it or not, I have had to tell my Ti to shut up before. When I am trying to read a person it is an almost purely holistic process, basically watching patterns occur and letting my Ne take in patterns that I can concretize and find meaning for in my Si. So every so often my Ti will perk up and try to base something on probability, "How likely is it would this person _____?", and I literally have to silence it before my mind is biased by probability.)

 

[whytiger]

I think it's called "Tertiary Temptation" but you could just call it "Analysis Paralysis". I get into this state where I'm constantly analyzing and going around in circles. I come to a conclusion, generate a new objection to it, and start over again. I think you're right. We need to rely on our auxiliary to look outside ourselves for the answer.

It's not that the dominant is less effective, it's just that it's not being used correctly. It's like a snake feeding on its tail. An INTJ, e.g., generates intuitions with her Ni that feed into her Fi creating feelings of profundity and meaning but nothing is really accomplished because it's all in her head. If, on the other hand, she takes the intuitions of Ni and forms them into something for external consumption with Te like an essay for others to read, then something is accomplished, i.e. something is produced outside of herself. (This is partly why journaling can be such an important exercise.)

In fact, this has inspired me to write something about my own self-typing because this describes what I've been going through.

 

[Gaze]

Not sure if this is correct but here goes. Not an expert on the functions (clearly), but in learning more about them, i realize that my Ti is much stronger than my Ni in many cases. Previously I assumed it was the opposite. But apparently they are interdependent. I can't function as effectively without my Ti being dominant over the Ni. And in the past, when i thought i was acting on Ni, i was actually using Ti. In other words, my Ni sucks. Ti is stronger; Ni is weaker. But i'm curious to know how both work together because i have a sneaky feeling that when i was using Ti, i thought i was using Ni, and vice versa.

 

[Ecton]

Here's my take on this one:

Intuition is what grounds you and keeps you in check with greater truths. Once Ni fails, Ti can run rampant and go off the rails-- like with John Nash in "A Beautiful Mind." The truths of Ni become 'divergent' from reality and Ti compensates by creating overly elaborate models of 'total truth.' Many academic minds have succumbed to this. I just read an article about a biologist who suffered the same problem:

http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/c...ogy-to-the-bible-from-kindness-to-madness.php

Now, must of us won't end up in that detached state of illness. But that doesn't mean we can't suffer from bouts of Ni shutting up or Ti running rampant. The two need to play nice with one another. In a healthy mind, where neither becomes intrinsically failed, bad intuition can lead to Ti running overkill to compensate (so that the person doesn't have to acknowledge the truth.) Likewise, flawed Ti can leave people aching for something that seems missing, but their Ti won't let them follow their Ni.

 

[IndigoSensor]

Yeah it can get in the way, it has for the past few months acutally. Ni is the king of assumptions, and I have been fed up with myself with not having iron-clad proof of things I think and feel. I want something solid and believable, not this esoteric idea that others won't buy into. As such this has really made me distrust my Ni with thoughts and ideas.

 

[Raccoon Love]

Yes, quite some time. I always have the need to analyze all my results and been able to explain them logically so others will understand therefore I tend to over analyze. I have noticed however that when I trust more on my Ni, my results usually come out better. It is a constant fight though between my natural knowledge and my need to have everything secured.

 

[whytiger]

In some sense, it's a form of perfectionism. What if Ni and Ti don't agree? Then perfection, the one single, shining, internally consistent answer is impossible. If we bring in the extroverted auxiliary, then we don't need perfection, we only need an answer that's good enough to take action.

I like that comparison to John Nash, Ecton. I'm often in that situation where, in order to sustain my intuitions, I have to create elaborate models to account for the all the evidence against what I believe to be true. The Forer (Barnum) effect is a good example. If we read enough about, say, typology, we can eventually find reasons to fit ourselves into almost any type.

 

[Trifoilum]

Yeah it can get in the way, it has for the past few months acutally. Ni is the king of assumptions, and I have been fed up with myself with not having iron-clad proof of things I think and feel. I want something solid and believable, not this esoteric idea that others won't buy into. As such this has really made me distrust my Ni with thoughts and ideas.

I somewhat agreed with this, even when it manifested in different way;

"I shouldn't assume!"

I think it's more of Fe acting, so..moving on...

Ti...yeah. When Ti went berserk and interfering, I became overtly critical. Too much pondering a.k.a running around in circles. With a certain degree of complaining. All of which isn't healthy.

That being said, ordinarily I let my Ti do his work. It's usually well-surmised in one simple phrase, "Wait, WHAT?"

It did well to hold and sharpen my Ni and Fe; they both are enthusiastic girls, they are. XD

 

[Flavus Aquila]

No theoretical imput, just the observation that INFJ's seem to assess (intuit) people far more accurately when they are not interracting with them. Once something becomes personal, objectivity or insight is gone.

 

[Gaze]

No theoretical imput, just the observation that INFJ's seem to assess (intuit) people far more accurately when they are not interracting with them. Once something becomes personal, objectivity or insight is gone.

True.

 

[Inquisitive]

So this got me noticing that the more I use my Ti the less effective my Ni is... almost like the more I rely on how I think something works, the less I am able to just intuitively come to the answer.

This is very true for me.