Dating the addicted (alcohol and/or drug).

[Not2bforgot10]

[]

 

[arbygil]

I don't know if I can help you, and I know you don't want to hear it, but...unless that person is willing to change, the situation won't. It's really, really scary to be in a relationship with someone who's addicted to sex, drugs, alcohol, or what have you - because you'll always be second best to that item. It doesn't matter what you do or what you say; you're not first priority in their life.

So yes. That means, if it came down to you or the drug they'd choose the drug. Every. Single. Time.

Being in a relationship with someone who feels like that is not always a healthy place. Why? Because you'll be the one picking up the pieces when they make a mess. It can be self-destructive for both of you. The addict will think their lifestyle is ok, and unconsciously you'll confirm that for them.

I dunno...personally, I think it's a dangerous place (and pretty co-dependent) but ultimately you'll have to make that choice for yourself.

Good luck!

 

[PsilocinProject]

Tell her what the fuck is up.

You can't mess around with that. If a person is getting into substance abuse and it's having a destructive effect on their personality or life, they need to stop, sit back and realize where they're going. There's no problem(Imo) with gettin' fucked up every once in a while... But when a human being becomes dependent on it and stops paying attention to the things around them, that's where it becomes a HUGE issue. Neglect SHOULD NOT be tolerated. Use your own common sense. If they fly off the handle, fuck 'em.

You come before them. Your happiness should not be at stake due to their dependence on a substance. It'll be hard letting go of someone like that; but it would be for the better. That isn't to say to not give them a chance. Let them know that alcoholism is not a disease. The disease comes when they begin to think that they have no control over their actions.

I can't say that I've ever had any addiction aside from cigarettes... But smoking taught me that addiction blows. The dependence on a substance is an overall shitty place to be. Having time and your psyche controlled by a chemical and psychological addiction is waring, useless and, overall, destructive.

tl;dr: Give her a chance to kick the habit.
If she doesn't, boot her ass to the side. She's no good for you.

 

[Pristinegirl]

I experienced this one, with one whome I've known for a long time distantly but then dated (only a couple of times). He used to take anything and everything. At first it was cannabis which he went to rehab for. Then when he got out, cannabis combined with acid. Then he found exstacy. At the most he was on 5 pills from what he said. He went to sober up several times and stayed sober for periods but always found a path of 'I'm only going to try it again' to then abusing again.

As an NF I would like to say that i believed I could be a 'saviour', the one who got him to straighten up as he would love me and forget about the drugs xD Hence, that is not how it works, instead he proposed that I join in. Somehow it is hard to take someone like this seriously because all he was after was to have a fun buzz. In other words he couldnt enjoy event or happy moments naturally.

 

[PsilocinProject]

I experienced this one, with one whome I've known for a long time distantly but then dated (only a couple of times). He used to take anything and everything. At first it was cannabis which he went to rehab for. Then when he got out, cannabis combined with acid. Then he found exstacy. At the most he was on 5 pills from what he said. He went to sober up several times and stayed sober for periods but always found a path of 'I'm only going to try it again' to then abusing again.

As an NF I would like to say that i believed I could be a 'saviour', the one who got him to straighten up as he would love me and forget about the drugs xD Hence, that is not how it works, instead he proposed that I join in. Somehow it is hard to take someone like this seriously because all he was after was to have a fun buzz. In other words he couldnt enjoy event or happy moments naturally.

For those particular substances, it really depends on what the user is looking for.

If they use them improperly, things could end up bad... As in, psychologically bad.

I may sound like a dick when I say this: But all of those substances aren't actually that bad. Well, at least from my point of view... But I have a Neo-Shamanic belief in entheogens and empathogens. They're perfectly healthy and non-addicting. It's all based on how the person handles it psychologically.

And, honestly, if someone had to go to freakin' rehab for weed...
I'd have to say that I feel bad for that person because it's obvious how little self-control they have.

Oh yeah: My points expressed earlier still stand. Sorry for going off-topic. My apologies.

 

[Pristinegirl]

Furthermore I agree with you i love empathogens as well, well love and love haha I have only tried E and my introspective awareness is partly due to it as well as my love for psychology. However I could not handle the downside of it. It is the most amazing feeling the world yes, but it is not worth it for me because I don't intend frying my brains out. And I believe I have an addictive personality and would easily get caught in the world of the drug as one feels so loved. Also I still experience symptoms of the 'crashes' such as anxiety and worry and fear etc. So as much as I love the feeling, I decided not to.

 

[Sesquipedalian]

Tip: Don't.

 

[anica]

dating the addicted (alcohol or drugs)

I don't know if I can help you, and I know you don't want to hear it, but...unless that person is willing to change, the situation won't. It's really, really scary to be in a relationship with someone who's addicted to sex, drugs, alcohol, or what have you - because you'll always be second best to that item. It doesn't matter what you do or what you say; you're not first priority in their life.

So yes. That means, if it came down to you or the drug they'd choose the drug. Every. Single. Time.

Being in a relationship with someone who feels like that is not always a healthy place. Why? Because you'll be the one picking up the pieces when they make a mess. It can be self-destructive for both of you. The addict will think their lifestyle is ok, and unconsciously you'll confirm that for them.

I dunno...personally, I think it's a dangerous place (and pretty co-dependent) but ultimately you'll have to make that choice for yourself.

Good luck!

years ago i was in a relationship where i was the addict (alcohol) and arbygil is right: i chose the booze every. single. time. it went on for years and he cleaned up all my messes, which were legion.

when i finally sobered up through aa and the fog began to lift, i realized how destructive the relationship had become--for both of us--and i got out. the damage my addiction did was irreparable. i don't know what kind of relationship we would have had if i'd been sober when we met, or if we would've even got together without the addiction factored in. getting into a relationship while actively addicted is never a good idea, imo; same can be said about getting into a relationship with an active addict. it's one of those situations where love can't conquer all.

sorry. i know you wanted to hear something more encouraging, but having been there/done that, i just can't, in good conscience, offer what i consider to be false hope. btw, by the time i sobered up, we'd been married ten years and had two kids (neither of whom, by the grace of god have fetal alcohol syndrome), so don't think, like my poor ex-husband, that by marrying this young woman you can control the addiction and somehow fix her.

just a voice from the other side of the equation.

 

[KingOfSpades]

years ago i was in a relationship where i was the addict (alcohol) and arbygil is right: i chose the booze every. single. time. it went on for years and he cleaned up all my messes, which were legion.

when i finally sobered up through aa and the fog began to lift, i realized how destructive the relationship had become--for both of us--and i got out. the damage my addiction did was irreparable. i don't know what kind of relationship we would have had if i'd been sober when we met, or if we would've even got together without the addiction factored in. getting into a relationship while actively addicted is never a good idea, imo; same can be said about getting into a relationship with an active addict. it's one of those situations where love can't conquer all.

sorry. i know you wanted to hear something more encouraging, but having been there/done that, i just can't, in good conscience, offer what i consider to be false hope. btw, by the time i sobered up, we'd been married ten years and had two kids (neither of whom, by the grace of god have fetal alcohol syndrome), so don't think, like my poor ex-husband, that by marrying this young woman you can control the addiction and somehow fix her.

just a voice from the other side of the equation.

Wow this is very powerful. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Not2bforgot10]

So yes. That means, if it came down to you or the drug they'd choose the drug. Every. Single. Time.

Being in a relationship with someone who feels like that is not always a healthy place. Why? Because you'll be the one picking up the pieces when they make a mess. It can be self-destructive for both of you. The addict will think their lifestyle is ok, and unconsciously you'll confirm that for them.

Yeah, this is really upsetting to think about... it bothers me a lot actually. I feel, in a way, that I'm waiting for a time bomb to explode.... I'm just praying (maybe this is naive of me) that things will turn out okay and that she'll be able to live up to her word of being able to "self-moderate." I am giving her the benefit of the doubt.

I cannot stand another let down; I have been letdown too many times in the past. However, I do suppose if it does happen then I would have been partially responsible for having chosen to continue the relationship knowing that there may have been a likelihood with alcohol. But then again, I believe in equality, and I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. It's only fair. Please be brave and call me on this if you think I'm wrong. I am not flawless; I may, in fact, be overlooking something. I like to be called on stuff. Please [board,] honestly and willingly share your insights. Thank you.

Yeah, I spend a lot of time lecturing her (I try not to do this). I try to teach her accountability and what it is. A part of me is resentful for this, feeling as though I shouldn't have to do this, seeing as how she is 25 years old (6 months older than me), but then again, age is but a number. Nevertheless, I've made my expectations (strongly based on values) pretty clear.

 

[Not2bforgot10]

Tell her what the fuck is up.

You can't mess around with that. If a person is getting into substance abuse and it's having a destructive effect on their personality or life, they need to stop, sit back and realize where they're going. There's no problem(Imo) with gettin' fucked up every once in a while... But when a human being becomes dependent on it and stops paying attention to the things around them, that's where it becomes a HUGE issue. Neglect SHOULD NOT be tolerated. Use your own common sense. If they fly off the handle, fuck 'em.

She used to be dependent on it (cocaine); she's not anymore. She is four years sober; however, there is always that possibility again, but I cannot blame her for something that hasn't re-occurred. Right now the problem seems to be, or fear, more or less, the potential threat of alcohol. I know that she has an addictive personality, and I fear her picking up drinking again since the drugs/sex aren't readily available... she's been supposedly suppressing her impulses because of me, but that temptation itself is still there... and THAT is what bothers me.

I am scared she will relapse. Moreover, she won't admit to alcohol being a problem, when it is a clear problem in her family! ...granted, she may not be an alcoholic, but she sure as heck defends it! She told me she just doesn't like to feel "restricted' in the sense of having her options taken away and that it's when she perceives they're being taken away that she pushes and acts indulging.

You come before them. Your happiness should not be at stake due to their dependence on a substance. It'll be hard letting go of someone like that; but it would be for the better. That isn't to say to not give them a chance. Let them know that alcoholism is not a disease. The disease comes when they begin to think that they have no control over their actions.

Yeah, she technically can't make up excuses now because I have shown her that she does, in fact, have options. A lot of people make bad choices because they don't realize they had a choice at all (believe it or not; heck, that was personally the case for me-- in, of course, another respects). I hold her entirely accountable for her actions.

 

[Not2bforgot10]

I experienced this one, with one whome I've known for a long time distantly but then dated (only a couple of times). He used to take anything and everything. At first it was cannabis which he went to rehab for. Then when he got out, cannabis combined with acid. Then he found exstacy. At the most he was on 5 pills from what he said. He went to sober up several times and stayed sober for periods but always found a path of 'I'm only going to try it again' to then abusing again.

As an NF I would like to say that i believed I could be a 'saviour', the one who got him to straighten up as he would love me and forget about the drugs xD Hence, that is not how it works, instead he proposed that I join in. Somehow it is hard to take someone like this seriously because all he was after was to have a fun buzz. In other words he couldnt enjoy event or happy moments naturally.

Yeah, I know I can't be a "savior" of any sort... My heart; however, may not truly be aware of this. My heart longs for a lot, and sometimes because of this longing I don't always make the best choices in that I have a very difficult time with boundaries and cutting people off. It pains me...

 

[Not2bforgot10]

years ago i was in a relationship where i was the addict (alcohol) and arbygil is right: i chose the booze every. single. time. it went on for years and he cleaned up all my messes, which were legion.

when i finally sobered up through aa and the fog began to lift, i realized how destructive the relationship had become--for both of us--and i got out. the damage my addiction did was irreparable. i don't know what kind of relationship we would have had if i'd been sober when we met, or if we would've even got together without the addiction factored in. getting into a relationship while actively addicted is never a good idea, imo; same can be said about getting into a relationship with an active addict. it's one of those situations where love can't conquer all.

sorry. i know you wanted to hear something more encouraging, but having been there/done that, i just can't, in good conscience, offer what i consider to be false hope. btw, by the time i sobered up, we'd been married ten years and had two kids (neither of whom, by the grace of god have fetal alcohol syndrome), so don't think, like my poor ex-husband, that by marrying this young woman you can control the addiction and somehow fix her.

just a voice from the other side of the equation.

No, it's okay The thing is, she's not a confirmed alcohol yet, and so she's not tech. "active." I do not know if she technically has a problem with alcohol, but I suspect it to be the case just because she defends it so much and other hunches I have. But yeah... unfortunately I can be quite stubborn-- now, to the point, where I have to SEE something to even believe it... unfortunately, by then, it might be too late for me... yet I don't have the balls to leave her. I do care for her. I just want to know it's true... yet (hypocritical) when in fact I do find out it's true, I am going to kick myself for not getting out sooner. Regardless, because of fairness and equality, I am inclined to give the benefit of the doubt and in my eyes she's proven "innocent" until proven guilty. How do you feel about looking at things this way?

 

[amethyst]

Yeah, I know I can't be a "savior" of any sort... My heart; however, may not truly be aware of this. My heart longs for a lot, and sometimes because of this longing I don't always make the best choices in that I have a very difficult time with boundaries and cutting people off. It pains me...

i know exactly how you feel, i'm always attracted to broken people and it's something that i know i really have to work on. i was in a simialr situation, i was going out with a guy who was addicted to canabis for more than 6 years. after about 3 years of which (after i stopped taking drugs myself) i realised that the realationship was wrong for me and yet i stayed in it, pretty much purely because of my compulsion to fix people. obviously i still had feelings for him but not enough to make me stay, and it slowly began to destroy me. the stress manifested physically and mentally and it took me about a year after the break up to really start getting over it. any way what i'm trying to say is that if your situation becomes as dire (hopefully not) as mine did you will have to monitor yourself closely and make a cognitive decision. it may seem unnatural but i think PsilocinProject gave you some fantastic advice. also i know that you have said that you have strong feelings for this person, but i hope by sharing my story you may look at just how strong and overpowering the helping compulsion can be. i really hope this works out for you and that you look after yourself through all of it, best of luck

 

[amethyst]

actually, can i just ask you if your partner is willing to work/already working on, or at least thinking about the reasons why she needs drugs in the first place? in my experience drug addiction and abuse are just a symptom and unless the causes are treated you're at nothing really. you don't have to answer if you don't want to by the way

 

[anica]

dating the addicted (alcohol and/or drug)

No, it's okay The thing is, she's not a confirmed alcohol yet, and so she's not tech. "active." I do not know if she technically has a problem with alcohol, but I suspect it to be the case just because she defends it so much and other hunches I have. But yeah... unfortunately I can be quite stubborn-- now, to the point, where I have to SEE something to even believe it... unfortunately, by then, it might be too late for me... yet I don't have the balls to leave her. I do care for her. I just want to know it's true... yet (hypocritical) when in fact I do find out it's true, I am going to kick myself for not getting out sooner. Regardless, because of fairness and equality, I am inclined to give the benefit of the doubt and in my eyes she's proven "innocent" until proven guilty. How do you feel about looking at things this way?

denial (rationalization) is a big component of alcoholism and is common among those who love addicts. there were a few red flags--for me--in what you've said and things you've said she said. the only cure for denial is scouring self-honesty. i think it's good you're looking for honesty instead of validation here; it's a step in the right direction.

 

[Not2bforgot10]

i know exactly how you feel, i'm always attracted to broken people and it's something that i know i really have to work on. i was in a simialr situation, i was going out with a guy who was addicted to canabis for more than 6 years. after about 3 years of which (after i stopped taking drugs myself) i realised that the realationship was wrong for me and yet i stayed in it, pretty much purely because of my compulsion to fix people. obviously i still had feelings for him but not enough to make me stay, and it slowly began to destroy me. the stress manifested physically and mentally and it took me about a year after the break up to really start getting over it. any way what i'm trying to say is that if your situation becomes as dire (hopefully not) as mine did you will have to monitor yourself closely and make a cognitive decision. it may seem unnatural but i think PsilocinProject gave you some fantastic advice. also i know that you have said that you have strong feelings for this person, but i hope by sharing my story you may look at just how strong and overpowering the helping compulsion can be. i really hope this works out for you and that you look after yourself through all of it, best of luck [SIZE=Default]actually, can i just ask you if your partner is willing to work/already working on, or at least thinking about the reasons why she needs drugs in the first place? in my experience drug addiction and abuse are just a symptom and unless the causes are treated you're at nothing really. you don't have to answer if you don't want to by the way [/SIZE]

Two things... one, I want to say that I bet it was particular hard for you, as well as I imagine other INFJ's to be in a such a situation because we naturally, as INFJ's do not handle stress well. INFJ's store stress in their bodies and they become stressed easily.

Two... Speaking of "stress," in the beginning of this relationship and up until about 2 months ago, I was REALLY stressed out to the point where I became ill because my partner would not let me out of her site. She refused to let me have my own needs because she, or more or less her unhealthy needy, dependent inner child, was too scared that I would leave her, and so she (in my opinion) emotionally blackmailed me to keep me from leaving. Why am I still with her? Pity? and, of course, I do care for her. But because of that "fixing" syndrome you have described above. I want to be that pillar for her. I realize that I cannot change her, but I can at least be supportive.

I just have to be very careful when it comes to all of this because I have a tendency to ignore my body and get really sick...

As far as my partner being willing to work on stuff... She is somewhat... she'll approach stuff (personal issues) every once in a while... I guess more now (since she met me-- 5 months ago) than before, but she's still very hesitant. She's a natural escapist and doesn't like dealing with emotional issues and/or anything she perceives as negative or limiting. But yes, I'd say she's willing, partially... enough to where changes could be made. She just needs to stick to it and not give up when the going gets rough, which honestly is what I'm afraid of, but she "swears" that she will not and that she'd be a "fool," or 'Coward' she puts it, to lose me.

I want her to get honest with herself and beginning looking at her life choices, etc. I want her to begin to take responsibility, and I am trying to be that example for her. I'm not doing it for her, only modeling and assisting when necessary. This might sound silly, but I am also afraid that once (if, in fact) she's "better," she will no longer have a use for me and kick me to the curb. This isn't anything personal against her, but it's just that it's happened to me so many times in my past I wouldn't be surprised if it happened again. I hope that doesn't become a self-fulfilling prophecy...

 

[Not2bforgot10]

denial (rationalization) is a big component of alcoholism and is common among those who love addicts. there were a few red flags--for me--in what you've said and things you've said she said. the only cure for denial is scouring self-honesty. i think it's good you're looking for honesty instead of validation here; it's a step in the right direction.

Oh, God, yes... she's notorious for it. I remember when I first met her, and I was repulsed by it. My first thought was "Wow, this person does NOT take responsibility for themselves!" Moreover, I thought she acted like a victim who just wanted an excuse for not having to her own life and make her own choices.

I am teaching her, by way of example, how to take responsibility. Part of me is resentful for this though because I secretly desire someone who already has their stuff together, but then again, I wouldn't be needed if she had her stuff together, and chances are we wouldn't have attracted one another into each other's life. Sadly, I need people to need me because I can't supply myself with what I need, and what I need is a mirror... to reflect back to me my worth, because my narcissistic mother never did. I do not say this as a victim by the way, who claims to have no choices; I literally have searched the well and the well has run dry.

 

[amethyst]

yeah, stress is pretty damaging alright. that's exactly why i'm urging you to really make an effort to look at the situation as objectively as possible.the fact is (and it's a cruel fact) that if you don't look after yourself no one else will. it would be lovely to believe that you could find someone who was as willing as you to put themselves aside and do all they could to help you, but the chances of that are very low i'm afraid.
the reason i asked you about your partner's willingness to look at the causes is because i also belive that you can't fix someone who does not want to be fixed. some people can be very comfortable in their own misery. also as far as i'm concerned escapism and drug use/abuse go hand in hand, whatever it is she may be running from can't be dealt with until she faces up to it. so that probably means kicking the addiction(s) and then more hurdles. just try to analyse the situation and make sure that you're not being fed just enough hope to keep you around..... as regards ignoring your body - i can totally relate to that, i had to hit rock bottom before i realised what was happening but by god was it a fantastic lesson.
but i'm not all doom and gloom, if you genuinely felt that there was going to be a chance for change then i would urge you to go for it and see it through, only you know the answer to that - just don't hide it from yourself.

 

[Not2bforgot10]

Manipulation or Honesty?

Tonight's rendezvous with my partner:

Manipulation or honesty?

Basis: I had explained the concept of psychological “triggering” to Erin a day before this incident. In case you’re not aware of what “triggering” is, it’s basically when you are experiencing a feeling from the past and/or reacting to an event that occurred in the past while feeling like you’re, in a way, re-experiencing that past event all over again; it can be very painful.

The event:

Erin had just gotten home from school. She had laid on the bed where I was sitting and we starting talking about dinner. She quickly became very short with me as the conversation progressed. The shortness itself had been ongoing for about a week, aside from last week when I was sick as a result of having gotten surgery. Erin suggested that we eat a head of lettuce. I replied back to her that I thought a head of lettuce would be too much and a “waste,” stating that it would be unnecessary and that it would be wiser for us to be more frugal and cut down on the portion size. She said “It wouldn’t be a waste if we eat it all, now would it?” I then got upset because I felt like this was a shitty attitude and an attitude of a hedonist and said, “Yes, it’s gluttonous!” We bickered for a while about it. She said lettuce only lasts a few days… I told her it lasts about a week or so (this is irrelevant; just part of the conversation).
I was really upset because of the whole gluttonous thing and because I was triggered in the sense that I already suspect there to be a problem with addiction, and I felt betrayed because she said that she was working on having things in moderation, and I felt that using the whole head of lettuce that we just bought yesterday was not consuming in moderation. Anyway, Erin snapped at me “Make my own food then!” (She’s never snapped at me in this way before).
Right before this argument, Erin had planned on going across the street to the mall to go and get my Valentine present. She had just received mine today while at school and decided it was her turn to do some shopping. Shortly after our bickering had ended, I was still upset and told her that I didn’t want her present. I stated “I don’t want a present from someone who doesn’t respect me, and so don’t go out and buy one.” I said “Why would I want a present from someone that treats me that way?” I later added “I don’t feel that you love me if you can treat me that way.” I honestly didn’t want her present at the time because I felt that I would be allowing for someone to treat me the way she did by giving them the message that it is okay for them to treat me that way so long as they “make-up” for it. I simply didn’t want to start that sort of pattern/conditioning. Many people in my life have tried this with me, where they’ll get upset with me for no apparent reason and/or hurt me and then buy me things, or do things for me, thinking that it’ll make everything all better, and actually deluding themselves into thinking it is all better (confusing reality with fantasy; addict mindset).
I then preceded to go into the kitchen to make my own dinner (proudly) and Erin tried talking to me the entire time about what had just happened and how she didn’t ‘mean’ to hurt me. I was still upset at that point and didn’t want to talk about it. Part of Erin’s explanation involved the concept I had just taught her last night. Erin said “Emily, you know how we were talking about triggering last night?” I replied “Yeah…?” She said “Well, I was triggered when you were talking about the concept of gluttony.” She went on to tell me about how when I mentioned that her behavior was “gluttonous” she took it personally to mean that she was fat.
First of all, when she said this to me, I wasn’t sure if I should believe her or not because I didn’t know if she was just saying this (that she’d been triggered) and using it as an excuse (justification) to end the conflict we had just had, or if she genuinely was triggered. Honestly, to me, it seemed very much like an excuse just to end the conflict and to get me to not be upset with her, because had she truly been triggered I don’t feel like she would have acted the way she did. I honestly don’t know though… but now the question remains, “Was she really triggered or did she just used this concept that I just taught her as an excuse to justify her behavior and ‘smooth out the wrinkles,’ or keep the conflict at a minimum?” I am unsure, but lets say it was manipulation… if it was in fact manipulation then this was a perfect example of how tricky/deceiving addicts can be. On the other hand, if she was genuine, then great; I’m glad she’s learning the concepts I’m teaching her!
Regardless, I am still upset. I am annoyed at how she’s extravagant with stuff and yet complains about all these issues; the largest being debt, which seems to be affecting every aspect of her life and everyone in it (It affects those around her because they are being put in the position to feel guilty and then responsible for her carelessness; moreover, she takes out her frustrations/anxieties on those around her). I want to see some action and responsibility on her part. I realize that she has made some progress and there is no such thing as perfection, but it’s things like this that really annoy me, and it honestly (If she was being deceptive) just goes to show how difficult it is for addicts to take full responsibility for themselves; many are not even aware of the heavily entrenched patterns of denial they’re in. I am trying to teach her something, and of course, retain my sanity at the same time.