Christian nudism | INFJ Forum

Christian nudism

frozen_water

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Aug 11, 2008
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Hopefully this doesn't start a massive outcry... even though I get the feeling it might. Still, this is one of those weird ideas that's been hanging on my brain since... well, since as early as I started taking religion seriously at all. It mainly stems from the fact that I hated "dressing up" for church, because nobody could give me a good reason for it and I've always hated dressing up for things. I've since come to the conclusion that dressing up for church is an actively bad idea, simply because we only dress up, culturally, for important meetings and very formal things. At least... guys do :D. If I were meeting Obama, I'd probably dress up for it--but if I were Obama's son, I wouldn't. We dress up when the meeting is 'distant' from us, either at formal parties, or with important people we don't know very well, or things of that sort. Since church basically exists solely because Jesus died to close that distance between us and God, I find it both inconsistent with the message, and quite frankly annoying to do.

At the same time, though, I think there's a fairly convincing argument to be made for not wearing any clothes in religious settings. Out in the world, clothes make perfect sense. For one, it's illegal to be naked in public. For two, anything than hinders the message you're trying to convey to the world is best to avoid. Just like I don't think it's good to eat beef if you're in India, and like Paul said he follows Jewish Law when ministering to the Jews, you have to respect peoples' culture when you're in a foreign land. ...but at the same time, we're in a nation where we're lucky enough to have religious freedom, and church always seemed like it aimed to be a kind of "foreign embassy" for people whose home is Heaven, where they can make their own rules and don't have to worry so much about fitting in. At least... I've always thought that was the idea.

But God first gave clothes (animal skins) to Adam and Eve in Genesis, after they were ashamed as a result of their sin. The symbolism is actually kind of interesting/noteworthy as well, because an animal had to die immediately, to make things 'right' again. Now although one might say "God gave us clothes, so we should use them," I want to point out that that's not necessarily true. In the Old Testament God allowed for divorce, and when Jesus came he said "Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. [proceeds to correct their faulty understanding]". Basically, Moses' law was not God's ideal, but it did still limit the effects of divorce-sin. Now that Jesus was here, he makes the ideal known as part of his war against sin and death.

It seems a bit like clothes follow a similar pattern. The ideal in the beginning was that Adam and Eve be naked. Because of sin, clothes were given which made the effects of their sin easier to bear... but were obviously a temporary solution (that really was "the first sacrifice", if you think about it--using animal skins to cover themselves). When Jesus died and was resurrected, sin was put to death and its power was broken. Every week, people go to church to (in part) celebrate the fact that they are free from their sins--wearing the temporary, imperfect, Jesus-stand-in as they do it.

So my questions are: what ought Chrisitians wear in religious gatherings? Is "I'd be ashamed if I didn't" a (Biblically) morally-right answer? And finally, what are your actual reasons for wearing clothes to church?
 
While I am not for certain, I do believe where nice clothes has something to do with showing respect to God.


I don't dress up though.
 
In this case I think one's clothes should be a reflection of the heart. I mean, depending on how you look at it, we'd be properly attired if we were all wearing beggar's garments, because we are all in desperate need of God's healing, light and wisdom no matter who we are.

Aside from that, if dressing up was a matter of showiness or looking "proper" I'd watch out for that and be ready to dress down. Remember, the earliest accounts of Christian services advocated a certain equality among the believing community. All were to be welcome and all have equal stature. Apostolic warnings were given if things got to be otherwise. Within Christianity there is a wonderful reflex to reflect back on the sources...our roots in faith/teachings of the Apostles. So no matter what denomination one is in, I think it is pretty safe to reflect on this.

In addition, one might consider on the overall value of simplicity. This relates to many aspects of our outlook, surely not just clothes. Simplicity is a means of clearing out the clutter/distractions so that we might see with greater clarity. This attitude of the heart, once cultivated, can become a motivator as to how we address various details of our lives.

There is another principle that comes to mind...that of poverty, which is a sister to simplicity. It is often overlooked today but this was a major reflection of the early Christian communities. Paul himself, discussing the spiritual gifts concludes his observations with a wonderful phrase "...your attitude should be that of Christ". He then launches into what scholars believe to be an ancient hymn, passed down orally and finding it's way into early Christian liturgy (church services). "Christ did not count equality with God something to be grasped at, but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant..." and so on. The idea for us is to adopt this attitude in our communities...that we do not grasp at things to ourselves...in fact we empty ourselves as servants. Now this is tricky because, according to Christian mysticism, this can relate to our grasping at our personal pride, of our wanting to be highly thought of, of our quickness to judge others or be scandalized by another's faults...these are all things we can "grasp at" or hold onto as if they really belonged rightfully to us when they do not. This, of course, relates only secondarily to clothes, but this is as it should be. If our hearts are right, in imitation of Christ, then the rest will make sense of it's own accord.

Mysticism aside, I like to be comfortable in church so that I am better disposed to listen, to reflect, to engage. I like to dress down and attend services where this is most accepted and common. I want to give ample time and space to this community time as this is part of my journey into God, a journey that includes this moment, but also all the others in my life, too. Our attentiveness, openness, and engagement should follow us (at least in some measure) into each day.

So, in a nutshell, it is always good that one's approach to such matters/questions be rooted in some solid reflections on/in Christian tradition/scripture. It is also important to triangulate off of a collection of these related reflections so that a balanced approach can be discerned. Third, the attitude of the heart must be the primary focus...a right way will come out of there. Forth: explore....there is generallly no one definitive right answer. Try different things and see what is the best fit for you. I do suggest wearing clothes though....God can see your heart and that is really where our truest openness, trust and abandonment should reside.
 
I usually dress casual. I am sure if I didn't it would attract some people, and offend the sensibilities of others. Plus... I'm up in the frigid north of Michigan... its cold here.
 
I believe in dressing your nicest for every occasion. Going to a church service I always have in my mind that I am going specifically for worship of god so why would I dress less for the creator of the universe than I would for a human king or president? At the same time I try to fit in with my surroundings so its a balancing act for me. Also nicer clothes tend to be more modest clothes.
 
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I attended a Catholic mass with my mom a few years ago. The priest gave this big homily on how you should dress for mass as if you were going out for dinner at a fancy restaurant.
lulz.
 
I attended a Catholic mass with my mom a few years ago. The priest gave this big homily on how you should dress for mass as if you were going out for dinner at a fancy restaurant.
lulz.

Why is that lulz?
 
I thought it was lulz.
Probably because it's utterly absurd.
 
I still go to church with my family, even though I don't consider myself christian anymore.

And I always wear a t-shirt and jeans. That is what I wear everywhere else. It doesn't matter to me. Clothing means nothing. ad infinitum
 
Why is it absurd?

Really?
Because attending services, I always assumed, was to be a transcendent and spiritual experience...and I thought it was strange that a priest would take time to scold his parishners for not dressing fancy enough. Who cares? Why does that even matter?
He should have been glad anyone was there at all, sweat pants or not.
 
Why does that even matter?
I'm not sure. You hang around churches a lot and eventually you see one of everything I think. I always recommend that people plug into a variety of resources rather than rely solely on what happens in church services. It makes better sense in a larger, broader context.
 
A large church local here has quite a few services starting Saturday and ending with the old-fashioned 11 to 12 Sunday meeting. Most people know casual is always accepted, but more tend to dress up better for that old-fashioned Sunday 11 service.

There are always those asked to "serve" during the services. They are looked at as representatives of the church. Many years ago you weren't asked to serve without a coat on. They sometimes had a coat for those that didn't. I think that was respect rather than rules or regulations. I understood it. I have learned not to expect everyone to understand everything the same way.

Splitting hairs can lead to all kinds of things. Nudity at church sounds rediculously absurd.
 
Some pagan groups have naked meetings (look up 'skyclad') because everyone is equal before the goddess, or something like that.

It is not a new idea; it is an old one. I thought the whole point was that people have sin, esp. lust, hence the need for clothes. The ideal might be no clothes, but on a practical level that'd be a bad idea, and who says we want the ideal anyway?
 
Really?
Because attending services, I always assumed, was to be a transcendent and spiritual experience...and I thought it was strange that a priest would take time to scold his parishners for not dressing fancy enough. Who cares? Why does that even matter?
He should have been glad anyone was there at all, sweat pants or not.

That makes sense. My church just wants you to wear your best "regular" clothes. Which basically means wash them - or not. I mean some of the monks are not allowed to bathe at certain times so I imagine that some of the churches are pretty smelly, but I havent been to those personally. Yay incense.
 
I tend to dress a tad bit more modestly than I normally would, and about 2 notches nicer than I do for school, which is still pretty casual, but if I'm up to it, I might wear a nice dress, especially if I am singing that day.
 
If anything a T-shirt and jeans, but why should it matter? Is the clothes you wear really what pleases God? I believe God sees the inside of you as a person. Same with temples. Some religions tend to build lavish temples but Jesus taught the word anywhere. I believe using that money to aid others in need is much more useful. We always tend to have this perfectionist streak when it comes to God, to the point where we forget the central message.
 
quote "We always tend to have this perfectionist streak when it comes to God, to the point where we forget the central message." unquote

Speak for yourself. That is not meant in a rude way; just want to keep the records straight. There are those that do not forget why they are there; many people.

"Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and the Spirit of God dwells within you?" spoken to certain people possibly
"If anyone destroy the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are."

It is possible we stand before God naked in a sense, though fully clothed.
 
It is possible we stand before God naked in a sense, though fully clothed.
Quite true.

Despite how people dress up on Sunday, or whatever preachers may say to make a point, I suspect if you were press any of them on the subject, our outward appearance makes little real difference in the gand scheme of things. The heart is what matters.