Are we "owed" a partner?
- Thread starter Nixie
- Start date
Some men sometimes aren't able to connect with women at all or form real friendships with women and some men have become corrupted by resentment being afraid or unable to cope with rejection. They typically choose at that point to move into the pickup artist type community where they have a goal and the goal is irrelevant to the woman - as in sex is the goal and the woman in this goal could be another woman or any woman. They are taught to use deception and manipulation tactics to sleep with women which is extremely psychopathic. *I'm not talking about red pill communities where the focus is on changing yourself, making yourself better, and learning how to frame the mindset into staying positive to never be shaken, but ones where they are taught to have a veneer or wear a mask of a person that they actually aren't in order to deceive. Where they are being taught how to emotionally and verbally abuse and manipulate *
From there, those men who aren't able to manipulate, abuse, and deceive women into sleeping with them or being with them move into the incel community. The level of resentment and lack of empathy and other psychopathic traits these people allow themselves to wallow in is an extremely dangerous place to be for any person or for anyone around them. I stumbled on the incel community online from a terrible youtube video. I believe from here they are capable at this point of very dangerous things like Elliot Roger who is celebrated by many incels. I have watched them with my own eyes congratulate and celebrate what Elliot Roger did.
You are never entitled or owed anyone or anything but most especially anyone. You must make yourself worthy of a partner, a thing or a better life and remove yourself from the absolute arrogance that makes you think you are entitled to anything at all or that this isn't fair. You have zero choice in that, so it is best to deal with it rather than live a miserable resentful life fighting that or trying to take what isn't yours.
These men are victims of no one and I have no problem not coddling them. Many men decide to become celibate for reasons that have little to do with dangerous levels of resentment and entitlement which is what separates a normal celibate man from an incel.
From there, those men who aren't able to manipulate, abuse, and deceive women into sleeping with them or being with them move into the incel community. The level of resentment and lack of empathy and other psychopathic traits these people allow themselves to wallow in is an extremely dangerous place to be for any person or for anyone around them. I stumbled on the incel community online from a terrible youtube video. I believe from here they are capable at this point of very dangerous things like Elliot Roger who is celebrated by many incels. I have watched them with my own eyes congratulate and celebrate what Elliot Roger did.
You are never entitled or owed anyone or anything but most especially anyone. You must make yourself worthy of a partner, a thing or a better life and remove yourself from the absolute arrogance that makes you think you are entitled to anything at all or that this isn't fair. You have zero choice in that, so it is best to deal with it rather than live a miserable resentful life fighting that or trying to take what isn't yours.
These men are victims of no one and I have no problem not coddling them. Many men decide to become celibate for reasons that have little to do with dangerous levels of resentment and entitlement which is what separates a normal celibate man from an incel.
Happy Phantom
Well-known member
That’s not very reassuring. Any volunteers?He
He's your knight who says NI
Reason With Logic Filling said
Quotes are not my thing but something about an idle mind and the devil’s playground comes to mind
More seriously, some very good points made on this thread. From the perspective of “where is this coming from”, this is a fairly random interpretation –
Gaze said
The first thought which hit me here was of a study published years ago which concluded those in the middle of a depressive episode had the most realistic assessment of what was going on in their lives while the controls (not depressed) had a view which was “unrealistically positive” such that those people expected positive outcomes out of various situations as the default outcome. This point has been brought up as the whole issue of ‘entitlement’ and whether it is egotistical or normal to have this as part of our perception…. Which would be off-topic so not going there.
But it does look like fairness is a real issue with the incel group, and as life is not inherently fair or unfair, presenting this as some absolute static quality immediately puts it in the subjective perception domain – basically they believe life is bloody unfair, all the time, for all eternity. Others have pointed out society’s tendency to pigeonhole everyone into the parameters of the general population, and this does indeed encourage the extreme beliefs even if it is not a root cause.
Souvenir said
And this is relevant too because the beliefs that life is unfair and one will always get rejected do come from the same place (and even appear similar with the ‘always’ in there) so this has been silently accepted by this group but is now being communicated through anger and rage.
The issue of entitlement fits in as well although all the examples given are relatively mild – “I should get paid X because I have the skills to do this job”, “if I am nice to people I hope they’ll be nice back” – and these are also rather positive. They encourage positive behavior or productivity and don’t really look particularly outlandish or abnormal. Contrast this with a statement like “I need this so desperately and must have it at all costs” which is extreme, negative, and sounds like it’s describing deprivation rather than entitlement. And because it’s extreme and rather static it again comes across as subjective perception rather than anything reasonable.
So we have two extreme subjective beliefs, both negative, both laced with a heavy dose of desperation, and both looking suspiciously like out of control defense mechanisms. And they even have a common aim – to prevent the person from ever forming the relationship they declare they want so badly. Based on the responses here (and really no surprise) I’d say they are succeeding – though at the expense of all the people involved. (Though as Souvenir points out, the slightly less extreme versions are quite dangerous as they would have just enough "up front decent behavior" to reel someone in and potentially turn her life upside down..)
Quotes are not my thing but something about an idle mind and the devil’s playground comes to mind
More seriously, some very good points made on this thread. From the perspective of “where is this coming from”, this is a fairly random interpretation –
Gaze said
The first thought which hit me here was of a study published years ago which concluded those in the middle of a depressive episode had the most realistic assessment of what was going on in their lives while the controls (not depressed) had a view which was “unrealistically positive” such that those people expected positive outcomes out of various situations as the default outcome. This point has been brought up as the whole issue of ‘entitlement’ and whether it is egotistical or normal to have this as part of our perception…. Which would be off-topic so not going there.
But it does look like fairness is a real issue with the incel group, and as life is not inherently fair or unfair, presenting this as some absolute static quality immediately puts it in the subjective perception domain – basically they believe life is bloody unfair, all the time, for all eternity. Others have pointed out society’s tendency to pigeonhole everyone into the parameters of the general population, and this does indeed encourage the extreme beliefs even if it is not a root cause.
Souvenir said
And this is relevant too because the beliefs that life is unfair and one will always get rejected do come from the same place (and even appear similar with the ‘always’ in there) so this has been silently accepted by this group but is now being communicated through anger and rage.
The issue of entitlement fits in as well although all the examples given are relatively mild – “I should get paid X because I have the skills to do this job”, “if I am nice to people I hope they’ll be nice back” – and these are also rather positive. They encourage positive behavior or productivity and don’t really look particularly outlandish or abnormal. Contrast this with a statement like “I need this so desperately and must have it at all costs” which is extreme, negative, and sounds like it’s describing deprivation rather than entitlement. And because it’s extreme and rather static it again comes across as subjective perception rather than anything reasonable.
So we have two extreme subjective beliefs, both negative, both laced with a heavy dose of desperation, and both looking suspiciously like out of control defense mechanisms. And they even have a common aim – to prevent the person from ever forming the relationship they declare they want so badly. Based on the responses here (and really no surprise) I’d say they are succeeding – though at the expense of all the people involved. (Though as Souvenir points out, the slightly less extreme versions are quite dangerous as they would have just enough "up front decent behavior" to reel someone in and potentially turn her life upside down..)
@Professor Snep,
liking the included image there. It is neither, more like my subjective interpretation of what is going on in these people's minds. For what it's worth most would probably not score high enough to be diagnosed with any disorder (officially), although the group's "mission statement" is still likely to attract followers.
liking the included image there. It is neither, more like my subjective interpretation of what is going on in these people's minds. For what it's worth most would probably not score high enough to be diagnosed with any disorder (officially), although the group's "mission statement" is still likely to attract followers.
So you're saying they're bonkers, but not in an official way? Sounds like the second option to me.
We don't come here to 'get' things. Not money, not stuff, not not partners or sex. We come here to learn of our own divinity.
We came here to GIVE. That'll throw some wrenches.
Those 'guys' have missed the point. So have a lot of women. You have to grow up into human adulthood, which is a very selfless state,
to even be ready for fulfilling relationship. Look at the the percentage of relationships that actually work, or that actually last.
I would say work with what you have. The keyword 'work'. Then you'll get everything that you deserve. You do deserve it all.
We came here to GIVE. That'll throw some wrenches.
Those 'guys' have missed the point. So have a lot of women. You have to grow up into human adulthood, which is a very selfless state,
to even be ready for fulfilling relationship. Look at the the percentage of relationships that actually work, or that actually last.
I would say work with what you have. The keyword 'work'. Then you'll get everything that you deserve. You do deserve it all.
https://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/why-women-lose-the-dating-game-20120421-1xdn0.html#ixzz2Lh3lSsbj
A lot of these incels just need to wait until their thirties as the above article shows
A lot of these incels just need to wait until their thirties as the above article shows
- Sep 28, 2008
- 41,244
- 246,706
- 4,281
- MBTI
- INFJ
- Enneagram
- 954 so/sx
Being single in your 20s is a rough thing no matter who you are. It gets better, whether you find somebody or not.
Yeah you do know yourself better and you give less of a damn what people think, which seems counter-intuitive but its good for confidence which helps a lot.
- Sep 28, 2008
- 41,244
- 246,706
- 4,281
- MBTI
- INFJ
- Enneagram
- 954 so/sx
I should probably point out that being with somebody in your 20s tends to be more shitty as well lolol
I was listening to Last Podcast on the Left yesterday. In thier latest episode they were discussing incels with the director of the Shy Boys documentary. Apparently they were shocked by thier behavior in the doc and changed accordingly.
I missed this post when it first popped up, but all of this, right here. I couldn't have articulated it even remotely as well.
To the OP:
This issue is far deeper than we may think. If the man in question is "angry" at women we need to identify the true root.
and that root is simply this. When a woman or more than one women rejects a man they are basically doing a few things.
first and foremost they are telling that man they he is unworthy of genetic reproduction. His inferior genes are not worthy to produce a child to grant continued life for his genetic material and his family linage. This is basically mother nature her self condemning his genetics and family history to death.
Now I think any human would be a little upset that basically there family tree is about to be cut down and that it will end with them.
Perhaps you think think this sounds a bit extreme? its not. we are talking about a biological rejection on a pure primal level.
Biology doesn't care what your big brain logic is thinking.
this doesnt mean he is owed something but it is the truth of the situation.
Now this is an issue that women in general terms cannot relate too. Women in general will have 1 child or more. women have control about not IF they will have a child but how many they will have and with whom. This is not their issue.... if they want a child they will have it.(with a few exceptions) NOW getting the correct partner or rather the one with the highest quality of genetic material .....now thats a different topic. The other issue they have is securing not sex, or children; the primary issue women have is securing the mate who has proper resources. This is why women who have aged past 35 get very upset when they cannot secure said resources. the closest thing women can relate to the man above is when they have waited too long to have that 1 child and now are in the higher 30s and are concerned that it may never occur. this is difficult for them to deal with because they are now in the position that men are always living in.
"will i have a child"
in either case we are dealing with people who have this question and are NOT in control of the outcome. That lack of control is what causes RAGE.
now to entitlement.
No one is owed anything, ever. in the case the men who angry its because they are learning about the biological nature of the female mating strategy which is very harsh, and 100% designed to eliminate male genetics so that only the most high quality men (ie. tall fast strong smart talented etc.) father children. This is NOT fair and not ideal. Its a fixed game, but it is the game that has created all of us.
A man can Love a women.....or He can understand them. He cannot do both.
This issue is far deeper than we may think. If the man in question is "angry" at women we need to identify the true root.
and that root is simply this. When a woman or more than one women rejects a man they are basically doing a few things.
first and foremost they are telling that man they he is unworthy of genetic reproduction. His inferior genes are not worthy to produce a child to grant continued life for his genetic material and his family linage. This is basically mother nature her self condemning his genetics and family history to death.
Now I think any human would be a little upset that basically there family tree is about to be cut down and that it will end with them.
Perhaps you think think this sounds a bit extreme? its not. we are talking about a biological rejection on a pure primal level.
Biology doesn't care what your big brain logic is thinking.
this doesnt mean he is owed something but it is the truth of the situation.
Now this is an issue that women in general terms cannot relate too. Women in general will have 1 child or more. women have control about not IF they will have a child but how many they will have and with whom. This is not their issue.... if they want a child they will have it.(with a few exceptions) NOW getting the correct partner or rather the one with the highest quality of genetic material .....now thats a different topic. The other issue they have is securing not sex, or children; the primary issue women have is securing the mate who has proper resources. This is why women who have aged past 35 get very upset when they cannot secure said resources. the closest thing women can relate to the man above is when they have waited too long to have that 1 child and now are in the higher 30s and are concerned that it may never occur. this is difficult for them to deal with because they are now in the position that men are always living in.
"will i have a child"
in either case we are dealing with people who have this question and are NOT in control of the outcome. That lack of control is what causes RAGE.
now to entitlement.
No one is owed anything, ever. in the case the men who angry its because they are learning about the biological nature of the female mating strategy which is very harsh, and 100% designed to eliminate male genetics so that only the most high quality men (ie. tall fast strong smart talented etc.) father children. This is NOT fair and not ideal. Its a fixed game, but it is the game that has created all of us.
A man can Love a women.....or He can understand them. He cannot do both.
Your "animal" explanation of not being able to "reproduce means the end of their family tree" has one big flaw. If you want to go with the "animal" argument then it should not matter if "incels" get overlooked because nature is working like it is supposed to then. Only the genetically superior and desirable males get the females in nature.