Are Asperger's/ADHD/Autism Bullshit Diagnoses or Manmade Illness? | Page 3 | INFJ Forum

Are Asperger's/ADHD/Autism Bullshit Diagnoses or Manmade Illness?

Bleep bop boop! This is one of the reasons why I don't like your type due to lacking any real empathy and emotional depth towards others.

You don't feel I understand your or this thread? You think I don't have the capacity to do so?

And you prep this interaction with Bleep bop boop?
I think you have no type and might be a complete retard, got any comebacks?

Note: I rewrote your utter gibberish into poetry. Please explain what sympathy and empathy means, numb nuts!
 
You don't feel I understand your or this thread? You think I don't have the capacity to do so?

And you prep this interaction with Bleep bop boop?
I think you have no type and might be a complete retard, got any comebacks?

Note: I rewrote your utter gibberish into poetry. Please explain what sympathy and empathy means, numb nuts!

Just another shit test and I am not surprised by your responses which is very typical of your type being like blocks of wood rather than anything else. I get tired of dealing with personalities like yours as they are npc like and very copy paste with the programming being so machine like and exceedingly common. Who knows maybe one of you will cook off another reactor causing another Chernobyl or in some act create some virus that would threaten billions being worse than Ebola.
 
Just another shit test and I am not surprised by your responses which is very typical of your type being like blocks of wood rather than anything else. I get tired of dealing with personalities like yours as they are npc like and very copy paste with the programming being so machine like and exceedingly common. Who knows maybe one of you will cook off another reactor causing another Chernobyl or in some act create some virus that would threaten billions being worse than Ebola.

This is what I wrote:

I'll prove my point: "Quick glance over this thread and already annoyed as some here are clueless being typical these days especially of the older generations that are frankly toxic towards anyone who doesn't fit the societal norm let alone meet the sometimes unrealistic expectations."

Quick glance over,
this thread and already;
annoyed as some here!
clueless being, typical.
these days especially,
of the older generations.
they are frankly toxic,
towards anyone, who:
doesn't fit the societal.
let alone meet;
the sometimes unrealistic:
expectations.


You wrote this in response:

Just another shit test and I am not surprised by your responses which is very typical of your type being like blocks of wood rather than anything else. I get tired of dealing with personalities like yours as they are npc like and very copy paste with the programming being so machine like and exceedingly common. Who knows maybe one of you will cook off another reactor causing another Chernobyl or in some act create some virus that would threaten billions being worse than Ebola.

Test of what, how dumb and careless you are? What is my type, because I may wish to analyse it to the gold standard of yours.

While you plan on an intelligent answer, you are more than welcome to run of to some mass shooting. It might be the greatest and grandest thing a numb nut like you could ever wish for. The shit test comes when people decide to toss all civilised principles out the window just to let me stab you in the face over the internet. Finally after more than 20 years on the internet, I met someone who could grant me the wish of stabbing them over the internet -- thank you, I don't know what to say, it's an honour to meet you sir!

Edit: Does this happen to Narcissistic ESTP regularly on this site? Unsure about this, but honest as it involves the more extreme outlines of pay acting something they are not. So it may be ESFP in this case or something other equally extreme and passable only here under skewed SI dominance?

I don't think you are the type you think you are, and this time around your barked up the tree of an actual INTJ. Impress me with ANY kind of intuition after this.
 
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of the older generations.

Let's clue train this for you, this sentence segment was covered by me in this thread before you graced us with your reply.
Impress me after this gobbledygook of yours, show me especially; how anything you said being above what had already been said and discussed. Before you decided to drag an intellectual conversation into the ditch in the hopes of some kind of affirmation or proclamation of your own image of self worth.

Can we start here and how you rejected my attempts to help because you are better, more sympathetic and emphatic than me?

I'm pretty sure that anyone with dominant Ni can confirm you were way off target, rejected rescue and then decided to crash and burn after several warnings.
 
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I can see you stepping on the wrong toes someday that being of someone else and getting yourself banned as others have but anyway you had cast the first stone here with other users and I merely replied. By the way your ego is much more narcissistic than mine.
 
yours as they are npc like and very copy paste with the programming being so machine like and exceedingly common.

It rolls of your tongue like velvet poetry, in stark contrast to my empathy to convert absolute incoherent dribble into poetry just because I can?

What are you talking about? Do you have a dictionary as your personal advisory and counselor concerning unfamiliar turns of phrases and expressions that play on rhyme and rhythm?
 
I can see you stepping on the wrong toes someday that being of someone else and getting yourself banned as others have but anyway you had cast the first stone here with other users and I merely replied. By the way your ego is much more narcissistic than mine.

You merely replied? And we are grateful, or so you think we should be in your own little mind?

I absolutely dominate this, and you think Ego has anything to do with it? Compared to let's say logic and the fucking meanings of the words we are using?

Edit: For those more emphatic and considerate, here are my two favourite things on the internet.
"What the fuck are we talking about?"
"On the internet, sometimes one crosses a line and decide to kill the person with the pinky finger-attempted rescue".
This is a perfectly example of both, and life is too short, it could have been made bad fast, ignored; and not even explained.

Forgetting everything, rising above it all and expressing something personal about the word, concept, situation, or personal experience for the repetition of the topic; the personal, powerful experience and expression makes this whole fucking thing a process interesting enough to invite.

So thanks, you could have been more specific earlier tho?
You may not be sharp or have that much temper, but we get there in the end.....
 
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Both
I see astrology numerology personality types mental illness classifications ect...as all the same. they are models or tools that can be used to predict and understand human behavior. Now each one has a different system within it. Like astrology is based on the study of ancient star patterns, personality typing uses cognitive functions, mental and neurobehavioral health uses a healthy unhealthy system which is why there is stigma to an kind of "mental or neurological disorder".---because they work in healthy/unhealthy: "We don't understand this behavior pattern or brain wave pattern, lets specify it, organize it and call it a disorder". All these practices can have valid uses and be studied to gain insight.
 
I think I understand what you're saying here and, yes, the majority of ADHD/asperger cases are being misdiagnosed because of societal issues.

"The hacking of the American mind" is a book you would really like. Most of the world but especially America has has become a dopamine nation, pushing addictive sugary processed food, unnecessary medications, addictive technology that keeps us distracted and sedentary, and a social media system that is allowing teens to socialize in a new way (entirely behind screens) that leads to social development problems that get diagnosed as social anxiety or autism spectrum when really that's just what happens if you grow up totally isolated socially.

I get what you're saying and I agree, though ADHD and clinical depression also real. I got diagnosed with ADHD and taking concerta and welbutrin makes me capable of living in this society. If I didn't take them I would just want to run around and explore all day and be unable to maintain a job or life. Recently I started taking vitamins as well as 5htp and let me tell you the increased levels of serotonin in my brain has made my comfortable in my own skin for the first time in my life.

You gotta understand, me having a genetic deficiency in BOTH dopamine and serotonin let me to getting on the hedonic treadmill, where I was eating sugar, using the addictive technologies. I took psychadelics and that led me to clean up my eating and exercise regularly. I had thought that after doing all of this maybe I didn't need my meds anymore that it was will circumstantial.

How wrong I was. Last July I tried to quit my meds and it all happened so gradually, at the end of the month I was feeling so shitty and I couldn't figure out why because everything was the same. Eventually realized it correlated with me going off the meds and started taking them again.

Everybody's just gotta do what works for them. I've met people who got off the meds And felt better and I think we should all periodically check to see if we could go without them but definitely if you do that it needs to be monitored by your doctor and if you find oh hey I actually function better with the meds... Go back on the meds. We are stuck in this society, our brains operate in a way better suited for caveman times, some of us have to medicate to not overreact to the stimulus of modern safe society.
 
And felt better and I think we should all periodically check to see if we could go without them but definitely if you do that it needs to be monitored by your doctor and if you find oh hey I actually function better with the meds... Go back on the meds.
This is really important advice - making sure that it’s monitored by a qualified health professional. Thanks for making that point Slant. Even the professionals can get this badly wrong and it takes the judgement of Solomon to get it right for some people. The trouble is that the same psychiatric diagnostic term can cover an illness range that’s quite mild, through to one that’s completely debilitating. To use a physical illness analogy, the range can be as extreme as running from a bit of arthritis in your leg, to missing part of your leg and needing a prosthetic. Stopping medication for some mental illnesses can be like risking a few arthritis pains for some, all the way up to taking someone’s prosthetic leg away for others so they can’t walk. The trouble is the differences in severity are not obvious with a well controlled mental illness though. A few years ago our GP decided to change my wife’s meds because she was on a cocktail of older drugs that were becoming expensive to the practice. All went well for just over 3 months then she suddenly became suicidal with psychotic anxiety and utterly debilitating somatic pain - and ended up in hospital for over 3 months. They put her back on her original meds in the end because she’s very biochemically resistant to the more modern ones and it took a year for her to recover - even now she hasn’t got back to where she was before they messed with her drugs. She hadn’t been as bad as that for over 15 years until then.

There are other folks with illnesses like bipolar or schizophrenia who are incapable of assessing their own mental state when they come off meds and could end up being sectioned if they go it alone. There’s no easy answer because I’m sure that there are folks who are misdiagnosed and are on powerful drugs they don’t need. That doesn’t mean that these severe mental illnesses don’t exist though and they respond well enough to treatment to mean that sufferers can lead a relatively normal life that would be impossible without drugs.
 
This is really important advice - making sure that it’s monitored by a qualified health professional. Thanks for making that point Slant. Even the professionals can get this badly wrong and it takes the judgement of Solomon to get it right for some people. The trouble is that the same psychiatric diagnostic term can cover an illness range that’s quite mild, through to one that’s completely debilitating. To use a physical illness analogy, the range can be as extreme as running from a bit of arthritis in your leg, to missing part of your leg and needing a prosthetic. Stopping medication for some mental illnesses can be like risking a few arthritis pains for some, all the way up to taking someone’s prosthetic leg away for others so they can’t walk. The trouble is the differences in severity are not obvious with a well controlled mental illness though. A few years ago our GP decided to change my wife’s meds because she was on a cocktail of older drugs that were becoming expensive to the practice. All went well for just over 3 months then she suddenly became suicidal with psychotic anxiety and utterly debilitating somatic pain - and ended up in hospital for over 3 months. They put her back on her original meds in the end because she’s very biochemically resistant to the more modern ones and it took a year for her to recover - even now she hasn’t got back to where she was before they messed with her drugs. She hadn’t been as bad as that for over 15 years until then.

There are other folks with illnesses like bipolar or schizophrenia who are incapable of assessing their own mental state when they come off meds and could end up being sectioned if they go it alone. There’s no easy answer because I’m sure that there are folks who are misdiagnosed and are on powerful drugs they don’t need. That doesn’t mean that these severe mental illnesses don’t exist though and they respond well enough to treatment to mean that sufferers can lead a relatively normal life that would be impossible without drugs.
Thanks for sharing this.
 
The diagnosis are real. Not every practitioner is skilled at recognizing and properly diagnosing the conditions, but they are real.

I only read first parts of this thread before posting. Didn’t see the later contentious interactions. Yuck. It’s like 2:24am, not sure I’m in the mood to go full contact with some of the pseudoscience assertions noted by few posters and then subsequent personal attacks. But, if anyone has any real questions on the subject, I am happy to oblige the explanations of what is known. But quite frankly, I am pretty uninterested in debating a collective of pop-psuedo-conspiracy-science ideals with a person who throws the “T” function at an INFJ as if that infers some superior authority in intellectual processing. Especially given that those ideals are CLEARLY subjective opinions based on pure laziness and adherence to misinformation rather than an effort to read original research and acquire true understanding. Catch me in the right mood though....I might take the bait.
 
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The diagnosis are real. Not every practitioner is skilled at recognizing and properly diagnosing the conditions, but they are real.

I only read first parts of this thread before posting. Didn’t see the later contentious interactions. Yuck. It’s like 2:24am, not sure I’m in the mood to go full contact with some of the pseudoscience assertions noted by few posters and then subsequent personal attacks. But, if anyone has any real questions on the subject, I am happy to oblige the explanations of what is known. But quite frankly, I am pretty uninterested in debating a collective of pop-psuedo-conspiracy-science ideals with a person who throws the “T” function at an INFJ as if that infers some superior authority in intellectual processing. Especially given that those ideals are CLEARLY subjective opinions based on pure laziness and adherence to misinformation rather than an effort to read original research and acquire true understanding. Catch me in the right mood though....I might take the bait.
That's a big dodge for a small question.

I just meant if you would like to elaborate why you think they are 'real' diagnoses rather than, say, 'disorders' of cultural mismatch.


P.S. Also, who are you addressing with all that 'T' stuff, exactly?
 
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That's a big dodge for a small question.

I just meant if you would like to elaborate why you think they are 'real' diagnoses rather than, say, 'disorders' of cultural mismatch.


P.S. Also, who are you addressing with all that 'T' stuff, exactly?

It’s not a small question, at all, from my perspective. It is a pretty big one, and complex. I probably shouldn’t speak up when I see something like this because I am not generally looking to construct a several hour long argument with literature references for a proper response. I’m not going to spout a bunch of unreferenced opinion on a topic like that. Better to keep mouth shut I guess- but lots of times people think they are asking a small question- they are not.


Back several posts is a pretty nasty exchange that is frustrating to me. I don’t really feel like going on about it. Just frustrated by it, felt like sticking up for that person a little bit.
 
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Better to keep mouth shut I guess- but lots of times people think they are asking a small question- they are not.
Please keep speaking out, sharing opinions of a topic is structure to the forum. Granted not all sharing is objective, however, posting questions and sharing opinions is one way people come to understand the truths of a matter. ;)

Back several posts is a pretty nasty exchange that is frustrating to me. I don’t really feel like going on about it. Just frustrated by it, felt like sticking up for that person a little bit.
We all get frustrated by the cognitive dances some threads invoke. Ideals flair, however, as long as we don't take them personal the nasties tend to disappear. ;)
 
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It’s not a small question, at all, from my perspective. It is a pretty big one, and complex. I probably shouldn’t speak up when I see something like this because I am not generally looking to construct a several hour long argument with literature references for a proper response. I’m not going to spout a bunch of unreferenced opinion on a topic like that. Better to keep mouth shut I guess- but lots of times people think they are asking a small question- they are not.


Back several posts is a pretty nasty exchange that is frustrating to me. I don’t really feel like going on about it. Just frustrated by it, felt like sticking up for that person a little bit.
I can understand that frustration, but your posting style amounts to very short arguments from authority made on the basis that you're 'tired' or you 'don't want to get into it'. What's worse is that you promise these authorities but never actually deliver, as well as pretending to a level of expertise that you haven't yet actually demonstrated.

Well, that's fair enough, but these opinions can be dismissed just as easily as they are delivered, because you're not actually saying or arguing anything. You're just making statements.

Nobody is arguing that, say, ADHD isn't a real, identifiable thing, merely that it might be improperly considered a 'disorder', just like homosexuality used to be considered a mental illness and transexuality might be someday.

What I'm asking about is if you have anything interesting to say about this - the categorical criteria we use to label something as a 'disorder' or a 'mental illness' and what the basis of that is or ought to be.

The problem is that if you did engage with this question, the 'authorities' you'd be posting would be from the fields of philosophy of psychology and philosophy of psychiatry (subfields in philosophy of science) since what we're dealing with are disciplinary and classificatory boundaries rather than strictly empirical questions. That is, you are literally unable to settle this question according to the empirical authorities that you're claiming to be conversant with.
 
I can understand that frustration, but your posting style amounts to very short arguments from authority made on the basis that you're 'tired' or you 'don't want to get into it'. What's worse is that you promise these authorities but never actually deliver, as well as pretending to a level of expertise that you haven't yet actually demonstrated.

Well, that's fair enough, but these opinions can be dismissed just as easily as they are delivered, because you're not actually saying or arguing anything. You're just making statements.

Nobody is arguing that, say, ADHD isn't a real, identifiable thing, merely that it might be improperly considered a 'disorder', just like homosexuality used to be considered a mental illness and transexuality might be someday.

What I'm asking about is if you have anything interesting to say about this - the categorical criteria we use to label something as a 'disorder' or a 'mental illness' and what the basis of that is or ought to be.

The problem is that if you did engage with this question, the 'authorities' you'd be posting would be from the fields of philosophy of psychology and philosophy of psychiatry (subfields in philosophy of science) since what we're dealing with are disciplinary and classificatory boundaries rather than strictly empirical questions. That is, you are literally unable to settle this question according to the empirical authorities that you're claiming to be conversant with.

Trying to ignore your hostile approach here- as you are maybe having a bad day-or maybe it’s your posting style to antagonize a person into interacting in the way that you have deemed you somehow deserve. I don’t know you and I certainly couldn’t guess how you are thinking in this moment as much as you have no idea anything about why I might be reluctant or actually incapable of explaining complex neurological aspects of particular entity du jour on a online forum full of people I don’t fucking know. I don’t know your education levels- I have no idea where to begin here. You aren’t a bunch of grad students. Maybe, just maybe- I don’t come to an online forum trying to learn about a particular personality type to then be thrust back into my job as scientist and professor. Have you considered that that is a hell of a lot to ask or expect of anyone? What is your job? Do you want to come service me on demand? Why do you believe you are entitled to a neuroscience lecture because a neuroscientist gave her opinions on a topic? Why do you believe that I work for you? Or should? Or that I don’t have every fucking right to be exhausted and stressed out to a breaking point enough to ask an online forum full of supposed empaths for some grace and patience without one of you coming at me with sadly veiled implications that I may not be exactly who I say I am. Maybe you are the one with an issue here, as I posted a very simple statement and you wanted more than I felt I wanted or had to give in that moment. Also- I never deliver? Hmmm. I’ve been here a week. I’ve responded that way twice. I didn’t know that signing up for this forum meant I was responsible for adherence to your demands. Hyperbole and judgement much? Jesus.
Also, there is more within this thread than the discussion you have boiled it down to- you do not have ownership of my interpretation.

Having said the above- by your interpretation of all of what has been posted - you are misusing the clinical word “disorder” in your thinking. When clinicians use the word disorder it means there are patterns of behavioral or psychological symptoms that impact multiple areas of life. Period. It is not a judgement on the worthiness of an individual nor is it a representation of all that may or may not be beneficial if society was structured differently. In this society, with these social, economic, Relationships, familial, and just getting the fuck along standards- these behavior and symptom patterns cause significant issues. For instance, Post Traumatic Stress “Disorder” is pretty goddamned adaptive if there is ongoing threats around every corner- not so much if the behaviors are happening at a restaurant or on a date, or at work in an office where threats are only perceived. The debate about it being a “disorder” or not Is taking the clinical word we use as a baseline definition used for diagnostic purposes- out of context.

ADHD is often misdiagnosed. I had multiple patients who came to me with the diagnosis and on further examination actually clearly had PTSD from childhood traumas. The clinical presentation, to an untrained eye- look similar. The treatment for the two are radically different. With ADHD there is a disregulation of the dopaminergic signaling the prefrontal cortex that is aided by using a medication that upregulates dopamine. For PTSD you have a disregulation of the hippocampus and prefrontal cortex through strengthening the synaptic power of the amygdala to depress the activity of both of them. There is a problem in the bidirectional signaling between the three structures that is disregulted through excitatory glutamatergic, depression In GABA, and endocannabinoid retrograde signaling. There is a serious cortisol depression in PTSD patients that is generally an effect of a burned out HPA axis and it’s negative feedback loop due to long term allostatic load. Any blip in cortisol causes a hyperactive sympathetic net system response and the last thing you want to do is give them adderall- a central nervous system stimulant. Our clinical evaluation and adherence to set guidelines for diagnosis is really important so, back to my original point- yeah- the disorders are real. You may not like the word disorder- but that’s the word in clinical parlance- it is not a moral or character judgement as used in your question. My point is that there IS a change in the brain operating system between neuro typical and those that carry these diagnosis. It’s not bullshit or man made. They are real and cause people significant functional problems as per the requirements to carry the diagnosis, if diagnosed properly. Is it morally fine that people struggle within the constraints of our society? I don’t have an answer for you- but the brain is structured differently In both ADHD and Autism, and that’s a fact.

Sounds like you are offended by a word clinicians use as a tool to communicate a set of criteria a patient does or does not have.

I am sorry for being salty but your approach was offensive and I don’t appreciate it. I don’t owe you anything, if you have a specific question- I’ll try to answer that but I am not obligated to construct a layperson clinical lecture on broad swaths of extremely complex neuroscience on a forum where I came to try and gain some knowledge and maybe some empathy here and there, hoping to offer that in return.
 
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