Any followers of Christ as pissed off at other so called "Christians" as I am? | Page 5 | INFJ Forum

Any followers of Christ as pissed off at other so called "Christians" as I am?

@Skarekrow, please can you answer at this question, its very important in our little discussion...I think you confuse free will with the options of free will. I have to hurry, so I'll just leave you with a question:
Let's say the law forbids murder in one country. If you broke that law openly or not, you will be punished. One child molester sees this as a open violation of his own free will. He thinks that he doesn't have free will sudenly because of that law. Do you think he is right or not?
It doesn’t matter what the child molester thinks....the morality of a society is set up to be self-protecting and perpetuating.
One could argue that someone who molests children has a severe mental illness...so if God twisted his mind in such a way, then why punish him for acting on his nature? I’m of course not advocating molestation or anything of the sort.
He actually does NOT in fact have free will....he cannot molest to his perverse heart’s desire.
The question of right or wrong doesn’t play a factor....you cannot have free will with stipulations attached.
 
Those passages just make God sound wishy-washy, unable to make up his mind, easily swayed, and hot-headed.
And when are the Jews going to get all this shit He promised them? Maybe, (according to the above attributes) He saw a squirrel and got distracted.
It’s nice to know that God plays favorites with people based purely on bloodlines...
Are you tempting the Lord God?


In an OR, there are two patients dying. YOU can only try to save one of them. Tell me, which would you save?
 
Do you understand what is meant in the old texts regarding free will?
 
A crow lives peacefully at a business. If he comes where the geese and owls are nesting, he will be shot. Why? Is it his nature gets him shot, his choices, or is it in the shooter's hand? I believe the crow knows his boundaries, yet it is his nature to kill and destroy. Maybe many generations ago they decided to kill and destroy anything in their general area of nesting. Maybe they decided to chase owls and hawks. Do they have a choice?
 
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Are you tempting the Lord God?


In an OR, there are two patients dying. YOU can only try to save one of them. Tell me, which would you save?
I save the one with the best chances of surviving based on the injuries/age/co-morbidites/etc/etc...
Do you understand what is meant in the old texts regarding free will?
I am advocating that either we have an absent God - and have free will
Or
We have an interfering God - and NO free will

There are quite a few passages in the Bible that say to the latter on the subject...than man cannot take one step without the direction of God.

Statistically speaking (according to modern evangelical Christianity), there has been relatively few of the world’s population that have ever heard of the name of Jesus Christ (which name is admittedly the only name under heaven by which men "must be saved," Acts 4:12). So what happens to all of the billions upon billions upon billions of boys and girls, men and women, who have never heard the name of Jesus? Let Dr. James Kennedy (probably the greatest Christian theologian alive on earth today—sporting six doctorates) answer this question for us:
"It is the light of Christ. It is the light of grace, and it is not incumbent upon God to extend it to everyone. Let us make it very clear that it is not incumbent upon God to extend it to anyone."
"But because God extends it to some does not mean He must extend it to any other. He must be just. He doesn’t have to be gracious or merciful to any guilty sinner…."
"So the idea that God owes to anyone some offer of mercy is totally foreign from [to] the Bible."

(I can’t get this damn thing to un-indent now....lolol)

Is this the way that God would have Christians believe that He cares and provides for billions upon billions of His creatures? By burning their flesh in some terrorist torture chamber for all eternity? For absolutely no redeeming reason or purpose? Dr. Kennedy says: "Hell is fair." Now I don’t mean to be unkind to Dr. Kennedy, but such sermons as this desperately need exposing. Millions are being deceived by such unscriptural nonsense and evil.
Let’s have a little sensibility in this matter: Even if man had a free will, in what possible way would he be free to choose Christ and choose heaven, should he be one of the billions of unfortunate people who has never heard of Jesus or heaven? But we are told that he does choose hell even if he never heard of heaven or hell, and doesn’t even know that there is a choice to be made in the first place. And so, the idea of a free will would be of no value to the salvation of the majority of humanity even if they did possess such a God-defying power.

"choose v 1. To select from a number of possible alternatives" (The American Heritage College Dictionary).
[MENTION=9401]LucyJr[/MENTION]
First God tells Moses to tell Pharaoh to "to let My people go." And Pharaoh would have let the Hebrews go. Sure he would, had not God Himself intervened. Why would Pharaoh let them go? Because Pharaoh’s heart was both soft and weak. A soft and weak heart was no match for God. Pharaoh would have caved in and let His people go. But God did not want Pharaoh to let His people go. He asked Pharaoh to let His people go, but He didn’t want Pharaoh to let them go this easily.
Next God has to do something in order to prevent Pharaoh from letting His people go. God actually wants Pharaoh to go against His stated will. God’s stated will is "let My people go," but God doesn’t want Pharaoh to do God’s stated will at this time. He wants Pharaoh to resist God.
God has not changed, God still wants mankind to resist Him. But Pharaoh (just like the rest of humanity) is too weak and soft to resist God. So what does God do? Two things:

  1. "And I will harden [Heb: qashah—to make hard] Pharaoh’s heart, and multiply My signs and My wonders in the land of Egypt. But Pharaoh shall not hearken unto you, that I may lay My hand upon Egypt, and bring forth Mine armies, and My people the children of Israel, out of the land of Egypt by great judgments. And the Egyptians shallknow that I am the Lord, when I stretch forth Mine hand upon Egypt, and bring out the children of Israel from among them"
    After God hardens Pharaoh’s heart [makes it harder than it was], and Pharaoh resists God’s will and refuses to let the Hebrews go, God then puts greater and greater plagues upon Egypt until even hard-hearted Pharaoh gives in and lets the people go. But notice what God does after this.
  2. "For Pharaoh will say of the children of Israel, They are entangled in the land, the wilderness has shut them in. And I will harden [Heb: chazaq—to make strong and courageous] Pharaoh’s heart, that he shall follow after them; and I will be honoured upon Pharaoh, and upon all his host; that the Egyptians may know that I am the Lord. And they did so" (Ex. 14:3-4).
Pharaoh was naturally too soft of heart to resist letting the Hebrews go, and so God hardened his soft heart so that he would resist and would not let the people go until God first made a great display of His strength to the Egyptians. And after Pharaoh did let the people go, God wanted Pharaoh to try and follow after them and kill them. But this time we find that Pharaoh’s heart was too weak. And so again, God strengthens and gives courage to Pharaoh’s weak heart, and Pharaoh charges after Israel only to be totally defeated by God in the Red Sea.
Well, there it is. How hard is that to understand? But who will believe it? From Pharaoh’s birth until his death, God had a purpose for Pharaoh’s life, and God controlled every aspect of it. Pharaoh had not "free will" in any of these events. God changes not; He operates the same way in everyone’s life. You will either be a vessel of honor or a vessel of dishonor.

The example of the disciples forsaking Jesus is so important to the question of fee will that we are going to stay with it a little longer. Can we believe that Jesus could have told His disciples the following:
"And Jesus said unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night, but then again, maybe not all of you will be offended, seeing that all of you have a free will to will against My pronouncement…."
Or maybe this to Peter:
"And Jesus said unto him [Peter] Verily I say unto you, That this day, even in this night, before the cock crow twice, thou shall deny me thrice, but then again, maybe you won’t deny Me three times, seeing that you have a free will that does not need to deny Me even once. It doesn’t depend on what I say, or circumstances brought about by My Father, or what God declares, but rather on your own free will."
Sounds a little silly when we look at it logically doesn’t it? Yet this IS the contention of those who believe in "free will." Maybe Peter will, but then again maybe Peter won’t, NOT EVEN GOD KNOWS FOR SURE. Almost sounds like blasphemy, doesn’t it? It is blasphemy.
To argue that when God prophesies, states, and intends that someone do a particular thing, that the person is still at liberty because of his supposed free will, to not do what God has said, is absurdity on the highest level. Yet this IS what the theory of free will demands.
The fact that God has a foreknowledge of everything proves that free will is an impossibility, as true free will could alter the future and therefore God could not have an absolute and true knowledge of the future. It is idiocy to state that man has a free will that is not made or caused to do as it does, and yet state that God knows in advance the only possible choice that a person must make.
How can one believe that if God states that a person will make choice A, that he is nonetheless still at liberty to make choice B? Let me restate that: Can God say that you WILL make choice A, but you can make choice B?
Can God say that such and such, WILL happen but that it doesn’t need to happen? The disciples WILL forsake and deny Christ, but they have a free choice NOT to forsake and deny Him? God knows in advance that something WILL be a certain way, and yet it doesn’t have to be that way? Am I going too fast for anyone?
Not only does the theory of free will demand that man be able to think uncaused thoughts and performed uncaused tasks, but that he can in fact, do these uncaused things contrary to and in opposition to God’s preordained stated plan and purpose. He must be blind indeed, who cannot or will not see that such a haughty presumption lifts such an one’s ego to that of a veritable "god’ in his own heart and mind.


 
Repent does not mean to feel remorse, it means a change of mind. What God does is He changes His mind, especially with respect to sin. This repent-ness of God it shows very clear that His a person, it shows the personhood of God. God also change His mind when his people pray to Him.

Exodus 32:

7 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Go down, because your people, whom you brought up out of Egypt, have become corrupt.

8 They have been quick to turn away from what I commanded them and have made themselves an idol cast in the shape of a calf. They have bowed down to it and sacrificed to it and have said, ‘These are your gods, Israel, who brought you up out of Egypt.’

9 “I have seen these people,” the Lord said to Moses, “and they are a stiff-necked people.

10 Now leave me alone so that my anger may burn against them and that I may destroy them. Then I will make you into a great nation.”

11 But Moses sought the favor of the Lord his God. “Lord,” he said, “why should your anger burn against your people, whom you brought out of Egypt with great power and a mighty hand?

12 Why should the Egyptians say, ‘It was with evil intent that he brought them out, to kill them in the mountains and to wipe them off the face of the earth’? Turn from your fierce anger; relent and do not bring disaster on your people.

13 Remember your servants Abraham, Isaac and Israel, to whom you swore by your own self: ‘I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and I will give your descendants all this land I promised them, and it will be their inheritance forever.’”
14 Then the Lord repented and did not bring on his people the disaster he had threatened.

Repent DOES mean to have guilt or remorse. It can also mean to change one's mind - as a result of guilt or remorse.

That is for sure and most definitely what it means. English might not be your native language but that does not mean you get to change it around.

Edit:
Moreover the original word is nacham which means "to feel regret" and it can mean to have a change of mind. Why would God need to change?

It also said that God was pained by his creation, and it grieved him in his heart.

You can twist it however way you like but it is very clear that God had a change of ideas. He didn't say "It makes me sad that people are acting like this" It said "And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart."

Regardless of why though, that's a pretty huge thing to be changing his mind about.

I can't see a God that has to change its mind for any reason as an almighty God. It makes God seem uncommitted, haphazard, and not very powerful.
 
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[MENTION=9401]LucyJr[/MENTION] I also find it a bit bad that God would have to be talked down by Moses. Just what are we dealing with here that it takes a mortal man - no matter how awesome and righteous he was - to remind God of his own promise??
 
It doesn’t matter what the child molester thinks....the morality of a society is set up to be self-protecting and perpetuating.
One could argue that someone who molests children has a severe mental illness...so if God twisted his mind in such a way, then why punish him for acting on his nature? I’m of course not advocating molestation or anything of the sort.
He actually does NOT in fact have free will....he cannot molest to his perverse heart’s desire.
The question of right or wrong doesn’t play a factor....you cannot have free will with stipulations attached.
Ok, thanks for the answer. So you say he does not have free will. And I'll answer to that with another question. If he does not have free will, then by your answer there should be no prisons. And even if there are(because there are prisons), then these prisons should be empty. So my question is this:
How came that many prisons in the world are always full? How do people get there, because by your answers they have no free will?

Also, I have a second question. Your main argument is that people have no free will in a christian framework, and therefore God is imoral. Yet by your own answer to my question, you say that the child molester doesn't have free will. If so, then it means thr society is guilty and imoral(just like God) because it violates the free will of that poor man. So, does not the societymakrs a injustice, just like you accusr God?
 
Ok, thanks for the answer. So you say he does not have free will. And I'll answer to that with another question. If he does not have free will, then by your answer there should be no prisons. And even if there are(because there are prisons), then these prisons should be empty. So my question is this:
How came that many prisons in the world are always full? How do people get there, because by your answers they have no free will?
If we have no free will then we're obviously also compelled to send people to prison. That's a very easy question to answer...

The choice to not send people to prison for crimes because they have no free will would indicate a free will which would be a direct contradiction. The justice system is staffed by humans which must fall under the same reasoning.

Also, I have a second question. Your main argument is that people have no free will in a christian framework, and therefore God is imoral. Yet by your own answer to my question, you say that the child molester doesn't have free will. If so, then it means thr society is guilty and imoral(just like God) because it violates the free will of that poor man. So, does not the societymakrs a injustice, just like you accusr God?
Society can be unjust and terrible in many ways. That should also be quite obvious. There's no hypocrisy or contradiction there.
 
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Both patients have the same chances.
 
My vision is clouded by people that answer to the calling of "Are there any followers of Christ pissed off at other so-called Christians". It appears this thread had been hijacked and turned into an attempt to discredit the Bible and God.
[MENTION=5045]Skarekrow[/MENTION] ?
 
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What does the Hebrew tongue state in those words? "for it repenteth me that I have made them." I mean, the way it was written?

Next: And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Next: And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

If you can answer the first question, tell me how you would have felt. What would your attitude have been?

What I would have felt surely would have been imperfect and not worthy of a god, so you may as well not even try to make that comparison.

However if it were me I'd acknowledge that I brought it upon myself.

Any god that could have an attitude about it remotely comparable to what mine would be probably shouldn't be a god.
 
5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
#,r'a'B ~'d'a'h t;['r h'B;r yiK h'wh.y a.r;Y;w ? ~w{Y;h -l'K [;r q;r w{Bil t{b.v.x;m r,cey -l'k.w
6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
#,r'a'B ~'d'a'h -t,a h'f'[ -yiK h'wh.y ~,x'NiY;w ? w{Bil -l,a beC;[.tiY;w
7 And the LORD said , I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
yita'r'B -r,v]a ~'d'a'h -t,a h,x.m,a h'wh.y r,ma{Y;w ? f,m,r -d;[ h'meh.B -d;[ ~'d'aem h'm'd]a'h yen.P l;[em ? ~ityif][ yiK yiT.m;xin yiK ~Iy'm'V;h @w{[ -d;[.w
8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
h'wh.y yenye[.B !ex a'c'm ;x{n.w

Sorry, but it would not copy the Hebrew. BUT NOAH FOUND GRACE IN THE EYES OF THE LORD.
 
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Genesis 6:6 ASV American Standard Version
And it repented Jehovah that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
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Genesis 6:6 BBE Bible in Basic English
And the Lord had sorrow because he had made man on the earth, and grief was in his heart.
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Genesis 6:6 CEB Common English Bible
The LORD regretted making human beings on the earth, and he was heartbroken.
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Genesis 6:6 CJB Complete Jewish Bible
ADONAI regretted that he had made humankind on the earth; it grieved his heart.
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Genesis 6:6 RHE Douay-Rheims
It repented him that he had made man on the earth. And being touched inwardly with sorrow of heart,
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Genesis 6:6 ESV English Standard Version
And the LORD was sorry that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart.
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Genesis 6:6 GW GOD'S WORD Translation
The LORD was sorry that he had made humans on the earth, and he was heartbroken.
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Genesis 6:6 GNT Good News Translation
he was sorry that he had ever made them and put them on the earth. He was so filled with regret
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Genesis 6:6 HNV Hebrew Names Version
The LORD was sorry that he had made man on the eretz, and it grieved him in his heart.
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Genesis 6:6 CSB Holman Christian Standard
the Lord regretted that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.
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Genesis 6:6 KJV King James Version
And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Read Genesis 6 KJV | Read Genesis 6:6 KJV in parallel | Interlinear view
Genesis 6:6 LEB Lexham English Bible
And Yahweh regretted that he had made humankind on the earth, and {he was grieved in his heart}.
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Genesis 6:6 NAS New American Standard
The LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.
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Genesis 6:6 NCV New Century Version
He was sorry he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain.
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Genesis 6:6 NIRV New International Reader's Version
The LORD was very sad that he had made man on the earth. His heart was filled with pain.
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Genesis 6:6 NIV New International Version
The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain.
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Genesis 6:6 NKJV New King James Version
And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.
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Genesis 6:6 NLT New Living Translation
So the LORD was sorry he had ever made them. It broke his heart.
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Genesis 6:6 NRS New Revised Standard
And the Lord was sorry that he had made humankind on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart.
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Genesis 6:6 RSV Revised Standard Version
And the LORD was sorry that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart.
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Genesis 6:6 DBY The Darby Translation
And Jehovah repented that he had made Man on the earth, and it grieved him in his heart.
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Genesis 6:6 MSG The Message
God was sorry that he had made the human race in the first place; it broke his heart.
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Genesis 6:6 WBT The Webster Bible
And the LORD repented that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
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Genesis 6:6 TMB Third Millennium Bible
And the LORD repented that He had made man on the earth, and it grieved Him in His heart.
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Genesis 6:6 TNIV Today's New International Version
The LORD regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled.
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Genesis 6:6 TYN Tyndale
he repented that he had made man apon the erth and sorowed in his hert.
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Genesis 6:6 WEB World English Bible
Yahweh was sorry that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him in his heart.
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Genesis 6:6 WYC Wycliffe
and it repented him that he had made man in (the) earth; and God was wary before against time to coming, and was touched with sorrow of heart within; (and he repented that he had made man on the earth; and God was wary about the time to come, and was touched with sorrow of heart within;)
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Genesis 6:6 YLT Young's Literal Translation
and Jehovah repenteth that He hath made man in the earth, and He grieveth Himself -- unto His heart.
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[h=3]Genesis 6 Commentary - Matthew Henry Commentary on the Whole Bible (Concise)[/h]

[h=3]Chapter 6[/h]
The wickedness of the world which provoked God's wrath. (1-7) Noah finds grace. (8-11) Noah warned of the flood, The directions respecting the ark. (12-21) Noah's faith and obedience. (22)
Verses 1-7 The most remarkable thing concerning the old world, is the destroying of it by the deluge, or flood. We are told of the abounding iniquity of that wicked world: God's just wrath, and his holy resolution to punish it. In all ages there has been a peculiar curse of God upon marriages between professors of true religion and its avowed enemies. The evil example of the ungodly party corrupts or greatly hurts the other. Family religion is put an end to, and the children are trained up according to the worldly maxims of that parent who is without the fear of God. If we profess to be the sons and daughters of the Lord Almighty, we must not marry without his consent. He will never give his blessing, if we prefer beauty, wit, wealth, or worldly honours, to faith and holiness. The Spirit of God strove with men, by sending Enoch, Noah, and perhaps others, to preach to them; by waiting to be gracious, notwithstanding their rebellions; and by exciting alarm and convictions in their consciences. But the Lord declared that his Spirit should not thus strive with men always; he would leave them to be hardened in sin, and ripened for destruction. This he determined on, because man was flesh: not only frail and feeble, but carnal and depraved; having misused the noble powers of his soul to gratify his corrupt inclinations. God sees all the wickedness that is among the children of men; it cannot be hid from him now; and if it be not repented of, it shall be made known by him shortly. The wickedness of a people is great indeed, when noted sinners are men renowned among them. Very much sin was committed in all places, by all sorts of people. Any one might see that the wickedness of man was great: but God saw that every imagination, or purpose, of the thoughts of man's heart, was only evil continually. This was the bitter root, the corrupt spring. The heart was deceitful and desperately wicked; the principles were corrupt; the habits and dispositions evil. Their designs and devices were wicked. They did evil deliberately, contriving how to do mischief. There was no good among them. God saw man's wickedness as one injured and wronged by it. He saw it as a tender father sees the folly and stubbornness of a rebellious and disobedient child, which grieves him, and makes him wish he had been childless. The words here used are remarkable; they are used after the manner of men, and do not mean that God can change, or be unhappy. Does God thus hate our sin? And shall not we be grieved to the heart for it? Oh that we may look on Him whom we have grieved, and mourn! God repented that he had made man; but we never find him repent that he redeemed man. God resolves to destroy man: the original word is very striking, 'I will wipe off man from the earth,' as dirt or filth is wiped off from a place which should be clean, and is thrown to the dunghill, the proper place for it. God speaks of man as his own creature, when he resolves upon his punishment. Those forfeit their lives who do not answer the end of their living. God speaks of resolution concerning men, after his Spirit had been long striving with them in vain. None are punished by the justice of God, but those who hate to be reformed by the grace of God.
Verses 8-11 Noah did not find favour in the eyes of men; they hated and persecuted him, because both by his life and preaching he condemned the world: but he found grace in the eyes of the Lord, and this made him more truly honourable than the men of renown. Let this be our chief desire, let us labour that we may be accepted of him. When the rest of the world was wicked, Noah kept his integrity. God's good-will towards Noah produced this good work in him. He was a just man, that is, justified before God, by faith in the promised Seed. As such he was made holy, and had right principles; and was righteous in his conversation. He was not only honest, but devout; it was his constant care to do the will of God. God looks down upon those with an eye of favour, who sincerely look up to him with an eye of faith. It is easy to be religious when religion is in fashion; but it shows strong faith and resolution, to swim against the stream, and to appear for God when no one else appears for him; Noah did so. All kinds of sin were found among men. They corrupted God's worship. Sin fills the earth with violence, and this fully justified God's resolution to destroy the world. The contagion spread. When wickedness is become general, ruin is not far off; while there is a remnant of praying people in a nation, to empty the measure as it fills, judgments may be long kept off; but when all hands are at work to pull down the fences, by sin, and none stand in the gap to make up the breach, what can be expected but a flood of wrath?
Verses 12-21 God told Noah his purpose to destroy the wicked world by water. The secret of the Lord is with them that fear him, Ps. 25:14 . It is with all believers, enabling them to understand and apply the declarations and warnings of the written word. God chose to do it by a flood of waters, which should drown the world. As he chooses the rod with which he corrects his children, so he chooses the sword with which he cuts off his enemies. God established his covenant with Noah. This is the first place in the Bible where the word 'covenant' is found; it seems to mean, 1. The covenant of providence; that the course of nature shall be continued to the end of time. 2. The covenant of grace; that God would be a God to Noah, and that out of his seed God would take to himself a people. God directed Noah to make an ark. This ark was like the hulk of a ship, fitted to float upon the waters. It was very large, half the size of St. Paul's cathedral, and would hold more than eighteen of the largest ships now used. God could have secured Noah without putting him to any care, or pains, or trouble; but employed him in making that which was to be the means to preserve him, for the trial of his faith and obedience. Both the providence of God, and the grace of God, own and crown the obedient and diligent. God gave Noah particular orders how to make the ark, which could not therefore but be well fitted for the purpose. God promised Noah that he and his family should be kept alive in the ark. What we do in obedience to God, we and our families are likely to have the benefit of. The piety of parents gets their children good in this life, and furthers them in the way to eternal life, if they improve it.
Verse 22 Noah's faith triumphed over all corrupt reasonings. To rear so large a building, such a one as he never saw, and to provide food for the living creatures, would require from him a great deal of care, and labour, and expense. His neighbours would laugh at him. But all such objections, Noah, by faith, got over; his obedience was ready and resolute. Having begun to build, he did not leave off till he had finished: so did he, and so must we do. He feared the deluge, and therefore prepared the ark. And in the warning given to Noah, there is a more solemn warning given to us, to flee from the wrath to come, which will sweep the world of unbelievers into the pit of destruction. Christ, the true Noah, which same shall comfort us, hath by his sufferings already prepared the ark, and kindly invites us by faith to enter in. While the day of his patience continues, let us hear and obey his voice. [h=3]Genesis 6 Commentary - Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible[/h] CHAPTER 6
Genesis 6:1-22 . WICKEDNESS OF THE WORLD.
2. the sons of God saw the daughters of men--By the former is meant the family of Seth, who were professedly religious; by the latter, the descendants of apostate Cain. Mixed marriages between parties of opposite principles and practice were necessarily sources of extensive corruption. The women, religious themselves, would as wives and mothers exert an influence fatal to the existence of religion in their household, and consequently the people of that later age sank to the lowest depravity.
3. flesh--utterly, hopelessly debased.
And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive--Christ, as God, had by His Spirit inspiring Enoch, Noah, and perhaps other prophets ( 1 Peter 3:20 , 2 Peter 2:5 , Jude 1:14 ), preached repentance to the antediluvians; but they were incorrigible.
yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years--It is probable that the corruption of the world, which had now reached its height, had been long and gradually increasing, and this idea receives support from the long respite granted.
4. giants--The term in Hebrew implies not so much the idea of great stature as of reckless ferocity, impious and daring characters, who spread devastation and carnage far and wide.
5, 6. God saw it . . . repented . . . grieved--God cannot change ( Malachi 3:6 , 1:17 ); but, by language suited to our nature and experience, He is described as about to alter His visible procedure towards mankind--from being merciful and long-suffering, He was about to show Himself a God of judgment; and, as that impious race had filled up the measure of their iniquities, He was about to introduce a terrible display of His justice ( Ecclesiastes 8:11 ).
8. But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord--favor. What an awful state of things when only one man or one family of piety and virtue was now existing among the professed sons of God!
9. Noah . . . just . . . and perfect--not absolutely; for since the fall of Adam no man has been free from sin except Jesus Christ. But as living by faith he was just ( Galatians 3:2 , Hebrews 11:7 ) and perfect--that is, sincere in his desire to do God's will.
11. the earth was filled with violence--In the absence of any well-regulated government it is easy to imagine what evils would arise. Men did what was right in their own eyes, and, having no fear of God, destruction and misery were in their ways.
 
5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
#,r'a'B ~'d'a'h t;['r h'B;r yiK h'wh.y a.r;Y;w ? ~w{Y;h -l'K [;r q;r w{Bil t{b.v.x;m r,cey -l'k.w
6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
#,r'a'B ~'d'a'h -t,a h'f'[ -yiK h'wh.y ~,x'NiY;w ? w{Bil -l,a beC;[.tiY;w
7 And the LORD said , I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
yita'r'B -r,v]a ~'d'a'h -t,a h,x.m,a h'wh.y r,ma{Y;w ? f,m,r -d;[ h'meh.B -d;[ ~'d'aem h'm'd]a'h yen.P l;[em ? ~ityif][ yiK yiT.m;xin yiK ~Iy'm'V;h @w{[ -d;[.w
8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
h'wh.y yenye[.B !ex a'c'm ;x{n.w

Sorry, but it would not copy the Hebrew. BUT NOAH FOUND GRACE IN THE EYES OF THE LORD.

Noah has nothing to do with the fact that God did something that he later felt needed to be reverted for any reason. How can God end up in such a position? He would have had to know that this was at least a possibility of happening, but it's written as if God didn't plan it out that way, no matter how you translate 'repent'.

It wasn't "this is part of my plan" but rather it was "this repenteth me". He didn't see it coming and therefore had to change his mind about it, or what?
 
Noah has nothing to do with the fact that God did something that he later felt needed to be reverted for any reason. How can God end up in such a position? He would have had to know that this was at least a possibility of happening, but it's written as if God didn't plan it out that way, no matter how you translate 'repent'.

It wasn't "this is part of my plan" but rather it was "this repenteth me". He didn't see it coming and therefore had to change his mind about it, or what?
Read the above translations. Never mind. People strain at a gnat only to swallow a camel. Strain away.
 
Read the above translations. Never mind. People strain at a gnat only to swallow a camel. Strain away.

I read it, and I don't buy the excuses. "He is described as about to alter His visible procedure towards mankind" is a fancy way of saying 'change', cleverly made to jive with Malachi 3:6 - or at least they tried to.

However this is still about God changing his mind, and doesn't explain away Exodus 32 where God even more clearly changes his mind.

7 And the LORD said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves: 8 They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. 9 And the LORD said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people: 10 Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.

11 And Moses besought the LORD his God, and said, LORD, why doth thy wrath wax hot against thy people, which thou hast brought forth out of the land of Egypt with great power, and with a mighty hand? 12 Wherefore should the Egyptians speak, and say, For mischief did he bring them out, to slay them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth? Turn from thy fierce wrath, and repent of this evil against thy people. 13 Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever. 14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

What's the excuse for this one? What different thing is being said in language we can understand where God repents this time, after saying "Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation." Is he once again "about to alter His visible procedure towards mankind?" after being questioned by Moses?

I mean just look at how Moses questions God in the first place:
And Moses besought the LORD his God, and said, LORD, why doth thy wrath wax hot against thy people, which thou hast brought forth out of the land of Egypt with great power, and with a mighty hand? Wherefore should the Egyptians speak, and say, For mischief did he bring them out, to slay them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth? Turn from thy fierce wrath, and repent of this evil against thy people.

Moses unquestionably stood up to God here and didn't get smacked down, but apparently God listened to Moses instead.
 
God cannot be found in any book, only in the One mind that is forever in God. Christ is within all of us and can be found when the ego is quietened and forgiven.

I dont want to debate about the details in the Christian Bible, because the devil is in the man made details. Although this book has been corrupted by the perception of man- ego, in it still remains the mystery and Word of God for all those who will read it with a quiet and Loving mind.

Most importantly- God has no favourites. God loves All completely and equally- unconditionally. Unconditional love can not be less or more, it is constant. God does not have favourites and special relationships. All special relationships are the tool of the ego, and are essentially unholy, as their purpose is to separate and fragment the Whole- ONE- All That IS.

God loves all of its entirety, not parts. All sacred ways and texts, of all people living on Earth, contain Words of God. No people in this world are exempt or less likely to connect with God's Love. God has no favourites. The idea of a chosen race of people is blasphemous and the thought is not worthy of God. No text is required to connect with God. No religion. No guru or priest. Nothing of the flesh, nothing that is made by man. Certainly no word of man, as the word of man are based on separation and lies. Religion is a construction of man, and separates us from each other, from God. As is culture. Yet all these things are tools that can point to the Truth that will lead us home. The Christ is within us all, and is recognised by any that will surrender the lies of the flesh to see the Truth of the spirit.

God is not a man. God is the Creator and God makes no mistakes. All that God creates is Holy, because God is Holy- Whole One. God only has One Son, whom God loves completely and unconditionally. No part is greater or more deserving than another- All is One. God is beyond good and evil. God does not judge and is incapable of judgement, because God is incapable of imperfection. God does not deny God. God does not require worship. God knows what God is. God does not require sacrifice, God is everything, has everthing, God is ALL and God is One, God has no lack. Lack is a concept of the ego. God is always aware of you. It is only man that can be unaware of God, if man listens to the voice of the ego, rather than the Holy Spirit. It is man that requires awareness of God, and suffers when awareness eludes him because of ego. Because of perception, we do not see anything as it is, we see things only as we are. Man creates God in man's image. That is the nature of perception. Man creates many gods, and places these gods before the One True Holy God. God has created you perfect and you will always remain perfect, regardless of the lies of ego. God is perfect and will remain so, regardless of the lies of man.

Satan is the ego. The father of lies. The lusts of man, that would covet the pleasure and the things of man, earthly and temporal things. The ego is the separated perception of man, and would deny God, because the ego can only exist in separation from God.

Here is a passage from the Christian Bible in which satan tempts Jesus. Jesus is lead by the spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by satan. God is aware of everything and God makes no mistakes. Jesus is tempted by the ego so that he can choose God/Oneness/Reality over ego/duality/projection/illusion. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+4:1-11&version=NKJV

Matthew 4:1-11

Satan Tempts Jesus

4 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2 And when He had fasted forty days and forty nights, afterward He was hungry. 3 Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.”

4 But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’”[a]

5 Then the devil took Him up into the holy city, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple, 6 and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written:

‘He shall give His angels charge over you,’

and,

‘In their hands they shall bear you up,
Lest you dash your foot against a stone.’”

7 Jesus said to him, “It is written again, ‘You shall not tempt the Lord your God.’”[c]

8 Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 9 And he said to Him, “All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me.”

10 Then Jesus said to him, “Away with you,[d] Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.’”[e]

11 Then the devil left Him, and behold, angels came and ministered to Him.



And here is a passage from the Christian Bible where Abraham is communicating with 'god' http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis 15&version=CEV

Genesis 15

The Lord’s Promise to Abram

15 Later the Lord spoke to Abram in a vision, “Abram, don’t be afraid! I will protect you and reward you greatly.”

2 But Abram answered, “Lord All-Powerful, you have given me everything I could ask for, except children. And when I die, Eliezer of Damascus will get all I own.[a] 3 You have not given me any children, and this servant of mine will inherit everything.”

4 The Lord replied, “No, he won’t! You will have a son of your own, and everything you have will be his.” 5 Then the Lord took Abram outside and said, “Look at the sky and see if you can count the stars. That’s how many descendants you will have.” 6 Abram believed the Lord, and the Lord was pleased with him.
The Lord Makes Another Promise to Abram

7 The Lord said to Abram, “I brought you here from Ur in Chaldea, and I gave you this land.”

8 Abram asked, “Lord God, how can I know the land will be mine?”

9 Then the Lord told him, “Bring me a three-year-old cow, a three-year-old female goat, a three-year-old ram, a dove, and a young pigeon.”

10 Abram obeyed the Lord. Then he cut the animals in half and laid the two halves of each animal opposite each other on the ground. But he did not cut the doves and pigeons in half. 11 And when birds came down to eat the animals, Abram chased them away.

12 As the sun was setting, Abram fell into a deep sleep, and everything became dark and frightening. 13-15 Then the Lord said:

Abram, you will live to an old age and die in peace.

But I solemnly promise that your descendants will live as foreigners in a land that doesn’t belong to them. They will be forced into slavery and abused for four hundred years. But I will terribly punish the nation that enslaves them, and they will leave with many possessions.

16 Four generations later,[c] your descendants will return here and take this land, because only then will the people who live here[d] be so sinful that they deserve to be punished.

17 Sometime after sunset, when it was very dark, a smoking cooking pot[e] and a flaming fire went between the two halves of each animal. 18 At that time the Lord made an agreement with Abram and told him:

I will give your descendants the land east of the Shihor River[f] on the border of Egypt as far as the Euphrates River. 19 They will possess the land of the Kenites, the Kenizzites, the Kadmonites, 20 the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaites, 21 the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.


Favouritism, the lust for earthly things, the sacrificing of animals to perform magic in that last passage? There is a lot of unholy concepts in the Christian Bible when we see the way man has twisted the words of God into the words of man.

There are many examples of ego and egoic projection in the words percieved and written by man. There are examples of magic- the manipulation of the law of attraction to project illusion. There are examples of man worshiping gods created in man's image. There are examples of man communciating with entities from other worlds in order to control and possess earthly things. I do not want to discuss this in details, because the details of illusion and 'past' are irrelevant. It is as pointless as analysing pointless data. A complete exercise of futility into the ego and the ego's world of illusion

And it is true that man is able to communicate with God, and these words can be found in the Christian Bible. The difference is clear for anyone that is willing to see Love and Holiness is different from fear, guilt and separation.

There are only 2 'laws' in the Word of God . From http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+22:37-40

These are:
Matthew 22:37-40

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”


The Law is Love, because Love is the law of Creation. God/we can only create through extension of Love. Love is our true nature, Source, the nature of God. God is One and God is Holy. One cannot love God and not love his neighbour. The neighbour is God. You cannot love your neighbour or God, unless you love yourself. God only has One Son. Love is not exclusive- it is inclusive of ALL. Love does not separate and does not discriminate. Love sees only what IS. Loves sees through all egoic projection of illusion because Love is Truth. Love does not see that past. Love does not judge. There is no fear in Love, no guilt, no withholding of any kind. Love is pure faithfulness, pure trust, total freedom. Love is Joy, Bliss, Grace, and Peace. Love is Oneness, Home, Source. Love is the complete, absolute, and infinte Power of Source. There is no 'specialness' and favouritism in Love. Love is Holy.

In this world, we can choose to create reality or to project illusion. Creation comes from God and is the extension of Love. Creation is inclusive, real, and Holy.
Projection is of man, ego. This is the projection of illusion from the egoic mind. It is exclusive to the individual ego, and it is separate. No one will ever know another ego's perception. Perception is incredibly lonely, because it is unholy.

We can love God or we can worship ego. We can create god in man's image and live in the ego's projection. Or we can look within, past the thoughts of ego, separation and perecption, and we will recognise that we have never been separated from God. God is One, ALL THAT IS.
 
[h=1]Does God Repent? An Examination of Exodus 32:14 and Genesis 6:6[/h] by Matthew Halsted
[h=3]Introduction[/h]Christianity’s most important doctrine is, of course, the doctrine of God. Who God is, what He has done, and what He will do in the future is the foundation for all of Christian hope. Therefore, for one to diminish the nature and character of God is to diminish all of Christian hope. To be sure, God is our hope.
In today’s theologically diversified climate, to lay a truth claim upon a particular doctrine (especially the “doctrine of God”) is tantamount to being “intolerant” toward other theistic positions. It carries within it the idea of exclusivism, where no other views are allowed to be considered. Despite these charges, it is the responsibility of the evangelical Christian to be committed to the teaching of Holy Scripture concerning the nature and character of God. As is obvious, to compromise on this issue would be to weaken our Christian hope and faith. Therefore, the stakes are high.
The main thesis of this article is to examine, as well as refute, the charge from many non-traditional theists that God, indeed, changes His mind (i.e., “repents”). Using such passages as Exodus 32:14 and Genesis 6:6 to defend their beliefs, many have fallen into error concerning the nature of God and His ways of working throughout redemptive history.
We will maintain that God does not change His mind, nor is there ever a reason for God to “repent” (which, at its core, is a theological position that assumes God somehow “messed up” along the way). Moreover, we will also maintain that the traditional view of God, being defended here (i.e., that God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent), actually increases and grounds our Christian hope. Though neither time nor space will allow us to examine all of the relevant biblical passages, we will focus on Exodus 32:14, as well as Genesis 6:6, and will, as a result, develop a concrete way of seeing these passages in the correct light, which will help the student of the Scripture to accurately interpret other known “problem” passages. Furthermore, we will examine the philosophical and logical implications of what one would have to believe, in all consistency, if the belief that God changes His mind is embraced.
[h=3]Examining the Biblical Evidence[/h]The place to begin any investigation as to what the nature and character of God are like would be, of course, the Bible—God’s revelation of Himself. Those on both sides of the debate would appeal to the Bible for their position’s grounding and basis, so it does indeed make sense to first and foremost heed the Word of God on this issue. We will begin looking at two passages that seem to contradict this article’s thesis.
[h=3]Exodus 32:14 and Genesis 6:6[/h]These are, by far, two of the most interesting passages that have to do with the subject of God changing His mind. In Exodus 32:14, for example, we find that “Israel has been impatient in waiting for Moses to return from the mountain. At Aaron’s direction, they gather their gold jewelry, craft a molten calf, and proclaim this to be their god. God (the true God) is deeply angered and tells Moses he plans to destroy the people. Beginning at 32:11, Moses entreats the Lord with the result that ‘the LORD changed His mind about the harm which He said He would do to His people’ (32:14).”[SUP]1[/SUP] In fact, the King James Version actually renders Exodus 32:14 in the following way: “And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.”[SUP]2[/SUP]
There are numerous ways in which one could make sense of this passage. First, one could say that God had set His mind on doing something, namely, bring judgment upon Israel, and yet, Moses persuaded God to do otherwise. John Sanders, an advocate of Open Theism, says this concerning Exodus 32:14:
Apparently, Moses has a relationship with God such that God values what Moses desires. If Moses interprets God’s intentions in an unfavorable way and God values his relationship with Moses, then God must either persuade Moses or concede his request. It is unlikely that Moses presents God with new information. The real basis for the change in God’s decision comes from a forceful presentation by one who is in a special relationship with God. With Moses’ prayer, the decision-making situation is now altered for God. Being in relationship with Moses, God is willing to allow him to influence the path he will take. God permits human input into the divine future. One of the most remarkable features in the Old Testament is that people can argue with God and win.[SUP]3[/SUP]
The main argument from Sanders, then, is that God can be persuaded to change His mind. We can assume that, for Sanders, it is not the case that God wasn’t fully convinced initially, but that He was totally and completely convinced that His decision to judge the Israelites was both right and good. However, Moses, through prayer and petition, literally “changed” the mind of God, so that God would, in turn, “repent” of His carrying out judgment. Since the word “repent” is such a loaded word, carrying with it major theological implications, especially when used in the context of “God repenting,” how can we rightly understand this concept in light of the fact that repentance means “in the theological and ethical sense a fundamental and thorough change in the hearts of men from sin and toward God”?[SUP]4[/SUP] How tenable of a position is the one that Sanders promotes? And does his belief hold any weight, theologically speaking? Furthermore, how does one reconcile Exodus 32:14 with another verse like, say, Numbers 23:19, where it says, “God is not a man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind” (Numbers 23:19, ESV)?
[h=3]Toward a Biblical Solution[/h]Concerning Exodus 32:14, Thomas Whitelaw claims that a hermeneutical principle of anthropomorphism is needed here. Says Whitelaw,
Changes of purpose are, of course, attributed to God by an “economy,” or accommodation of the truth to human modes of speech and conception. “God is not a man that he should repent.” He “knows the end from the beginning.” When he threatened to destroy Israel, he knew that he would spare; but, as he communicated to Moses, first his anger, and then, at a later period, his intention to spare, he is said to have “repented.” The expression is an anthropomorphic one, like so many others…[SUP]5[/SUP]
In essence, what Whitelaw is saying here is that, when it comes to “changes of purpose” in God’s dealings with man, a certain “accommodation” is made so as to help “fit” this so-called “change” into a way so that man can grasp it. This “accommodation” is obviously for man’s sake, not God’s. It is, as it were, anthropomorphism. God is communicating to His creatures—who are obviously not on the same intellectual scale as Himself—in such a way so that they might better understand.
John Calvin, a gifted expositor, also saw anthropomorphism in the Bible.[SUP]6[/SUP] In commentating on Genesis 6:6[SUP]7[/SUP], another reference to God repenting, Calvin states the following:
The repentance which is here ascribed to God does not properly belong to him, but has reference to our understanding of him. For since we cannot comprehend him as he is, it is necessary that, for our sake, he should, in a certain sense, transform himself. That repentance cannot take place in God, easily appears from this single consideration, that nothing happens which is by him unexpected or unforeseen. The same reasoning, and remark, applies to what follows, that God was affected with grief. Certainly God is not sorrowful or sad; but remains forever like himself in his celestial and happy repose: yet, because it could not otherwise be known how great is God’s hatred and detestation of sin, therefore the Spirit accommodates himself to our capacity.[SUP]8[/SUP]
To argue further for the fact that God is being anthropomorphic, C.F. Keil and F. Delitzsch offer this commentary on Genesis 6:6:
The force of… “it repented the Lord,” may be gathered from… “it grieved Him at His heart.” This shows that the repentance of God does not presuppose any variableness in His nature or His purposes. In this sense God never repents of anything….The repentance of God is an anthropomorphic expression for the pain and of the divine love at the sin of man, and signifies that “God is hurt no less by the atrocious sins of men than if they pierced His heart with mortal anguish (Calvin).”[SUP]9[/SUP]
But is this anthropomorphic principle, as espoused by many scholars, itself sufficient? That is to say, are there any problems with it? For example, as in the case of Exodus 32:14, if God, as Thomas Whitelaw seems to say, “knew that he would spare”[SUP]10[/SUP] Israel—even though he “threatened” to destroy them—then why the threat to begin with? God, it seems, gave the appearance as though he would carry out His threat, all the while knowing He wouldn’t. This should, at first sight, seem problematic to the Christian, for we know that God is never deceptive (Numbers 23:19). But yet, according to John Sanders, another potential problem emerges for the traditional theist: What gives traditional theists right reason to be so “arbitrary” in picking where the line is drawn as to what counts as anthropomorphism and what doesn’t? Sanders asks, “On what basis do these thinkers claim that these biblical texts do not portray God as he truly is but only God as he appears to us? How do they confidently select one biblical text as an ‘exact’ description of God and consign others to the dustbin of anthropomorphism?”[SUP]11[/SUP]
The previous questions are legitimate, and they need to be answered in a satisfactory way. Of course, God is not deceptive, and no, traditional theists are not being “arbitrary,” as Sanders thinks.
The answers, no doubt, reside within the definition of anthropomorphism itself. Bruce Ware says anthropomorphism is “a given ascription to God [that] may rightly be understood as anthropomorphic when Scripture clearly presents God as transcending the very human or finite features it elsewhere attributes to him.”[SUP]12[/SUP] We know that God does not lie, nor does He repent (Numbers 23:19). The plain reading of the text shows this much to be evident. The problem, if we are honest, is not with Numbers 23:19, but with the passages that seem to contradict it—namely, Exodus 32:14 and Genesis 6:6. It, no doubt, makes greater hermeneutical sense to see anthropomorphism in the “repenting” passages, so that we may accept all of Scripture. There are no other alternatives. That is to say, if we do not see anthropomorphism in the “repenting passages,” then we are left with the necessary obligation to deny Numbers 23:19 outright. But if we do see anthropomorphism in the “repenting passages,” then we can affirm Numbers 23:19 and other passages like it. Therefore, the line is not arbitrary; it is necessary. But still, Open Theists can still use the charge that God is being deceptive—that is, He is appearing to be something that He is not. How might one answer this?
It should be noted that at the heart of anthropomorphism is metaphor. Metaphor, analogy, and similes are never intended to be taken to the extreme. For example, in the Bible we see that the Father “makes his sun rise on the just and on the unjust” (Matthew 5:45 ESV). Does the sun really rise in the sky? Any fifth grader will answer with a definitive “No.” The sun neither “rises” nor “falls;” rather, it is the Earth that rotates on its axis, which causes the perception of a rising and falling sun. But the point is clear here. The Bible is not being “deceptive” for using such language. It should not be taken to the extreme, but, rather, at what it was intended to convey. So it is with anthropomorphism. God is not being deceptive, nor does He appear to be deceptive, when we remember the proper, and sometimes unfortunate, restraints of language. The Bible does not communicate God as being “deceptive” in the Exodus and Genesis accounts anymore than it does by saying the sun “rises.”
[h=3]A Final Appeal to Christian Hope[/h]Does God change His mind? Hopefully we have successfully answered that in the negative. If God truly can “change His mind” and if He does make cosmic “mistakes” that are either based upon misinformation or previously unknown facts, then our everlasting and blessed hope as Christians stands on shaky ground. If there is no divine plan, no grand telos, and if there is no planned and sure victory for the saints of God, then our hope in an everlasting, delightful eternity should, in all consistency, be forfeited. For our hope in Christ is grounded upon no other than the idea that Christ carries out His Father’s plan to the very end, as well as the fact that this plan is unalterable. To be sure, the historic Christian faith has always been based upon this assurance, not risk (Hebrews 11:1). And at the end of the day, may this not be said of evangelicals: That we thought too little of God.
 
[MENTION=680]just me[/MENTION]

That was an interesting counter until the very last paragraph where it sums things up with basically "We make sense of it because we have to since the faith would be destroyed otherwise."

You'll just have to excuse me for not being able to buy that. This is all I have left to say on the matter.