Any followers of Christ as pissed off at other so called "Christians" as I am?

[54192&#cmy]

I don't mean to be so friggin angry, but I am seriously getting tired of other "believers" out in this world spreading so many lies and so much hatred. Okay I know that homosexuality, murder, rape, and such are sins, but they are just other sins. They are not any worse than lying, backbiting, jealousy, adultery etc. etc. God views all sin the same. It is disobediance to His commandments pure and simple. It all leads to the same thing... death! not physical of course but spiritual. Although some sin could lead to physical death just not necessarily meted out by our Father. I try really hard to let His love flow, they just make it so hard. I would rather be tortured for my faith than deal with these types of so called "Christians" who wear the title more as a social badge of sorts and possibly an ego boost. It is wrong to tell someone that they are going to hell most assuredly for such and such sins when you are sinning just as much as them by the very act of telling them so with a judgemental heart. I apologize if this comes off as judgemental towards anyone in anyway I don't mean for it to be so. I am just fed up with people not following our two most simple commandments. Love the Lord God with all your heart, mind, and strength and love your neighbor as yourself. By the way the quotation thing is not to denote that they are not true followers of Christ. Only God knows their hearts. We are not to judge others hearts. He doesn't tell us not to judge their fruit though. I personally think if another follower is bearing rotten fruit they should be made aware of it and offered prayer and help with it. Anyways am I the only one to feel this way, and also what are your thoughts if any on this matter?

First of all I would like to say is sorry. I am sorry that you have found yourself in this situation. I have been exactly where you are. In some ways I still am. I have had good friends reject me after they became Christian. I have seen and been a part of bad behavior. Takes one to know one is what I found out.

Don't focus on them focus on Him. The Him that is in you. You cannot change their actions until it is time for them to do so. This balance between good and evil was created by God. If it was not then one must assume that it was created by another. Who must be as smart as God himself. Or it is God himself. We have to know sin. Their is no way around it. To what degree depends on us our surroundings and our up bringing. Unlike the animals Humans can change our stripes. We can become something different in the world we live in. These Christians your around have the wrong intent going on. They are not on the path of self awareness. Self awareness is a step in all this. Get to know Buddha get to know meditation. Apply the methods to Christ. Catch your thoughts. Stop your own judgement and you free yourself and the rest of the world from it. We must all be very careful what we believe to be true. We must be mindful of where our thoughts are leading us. And we must be helpful to those who we do not understand. Most of the time they themselves need understanding. Grace is a gift we all can give. The Love created by grace is pure love...

 

[sprinkles]

This is so funny to me.
Firstly, you accuse God for the ilusion of free will.
Now you accuse Him of giving to many options for the ilusion of free will.

No, just that it gives you the options and then blames you for taking them.

Edit:
Or in other words by some accounts, God curses people for being what God made.

I can understand the concept of making something and give it a choice so that it accepts you of its own volition. Cursing the creation because it uses its given ability to not accept you would be your own damn fault for making it that way.

Don't want options taken, then don't give them.

 

[the]

Wouldn’t the moment God interfered with anything mankind did or asked for destroy the illusion of free will?
I believe God must be absent in order for us to truly have free will.

No, because no one has undeniable proof that God interfered. So if he did interfere, you wouldnt recognize it as such and would continue under the same illusion.

 

[LucyJr]

No, because no one has undeniable proof that God interfered. So if he did interfere, you wouldnt recognize it as such and would continue under the same illusion.

I think you're contradicting yourself. Absence of evidence is not evidence for absence.
And by your own argument, you can't recognise if He did not interfered either, because you can not recognise if He did interfered too.

 

[LucyJr]

No, just that it gives you the options and then blames you for taking them.

Edit:
Or in other words by some accounts, God curses people for being what God made.

I can understand the concept of making something and give it a choice so that it accepts you of its own volition. Cursing the creation because it uses its given ability to not accept you would be your own damn fault for making it that way.

Don't want options taken, then don't give them.

So then you recognise we have free will?

 

[sprinkles]

So then you recognise we have free will?

I recognize that this is how the story goes.

 

[the]

I think you're contradicting yourself.

Dont worry, Im not.

Absence of evidence is not evidence for absence.
And by your own argument, you can't recognise if He did not interfered either, because you can not recognise if He did interfered too.

So true, but not relevant to what I said.

 

[LucyJr]

Dont worry, Im not.



So true, but not relevant to what I said.

The way I understand what you said, you are contradicting yourself. This mean your statement can not meet its own requirments.
So yes, its not relevant to what you said because your statement says nothing in any sense, at least the way I understand it. Its like you would ask me to be relevant to irelevance. But something that is self-contradictory is relevant to nothing, not even to itself.
But maybe I didn't understood what you said, did I?

 

[LucyJr]

I recognize that this is how the story goes.

Ok, meaning that you recognise that there is nothing contradictory in a theistic framework
concerning the idea of a God and humans that have free will, like you said "this is how the story goes"?

 

[sprinkles]

Ok, meaning that you recognise that there is nothing contradictory in a theistic framework
concerning the idea of a God and humans that have free will, like you said "this is how the story goes"?

A deity creating something that it doesn't want to have is not necessarily contradictory - and please excuse me for saying this - it's just kind of stupid.

It's like if you created an intelligent beast and gave it the ability to eat you, but when it tries you yell at it and say "HOW DARE YOU! I AM YOUR MASTER!" and make it feel guilty for using the ability that you chose to give it.

 

[the]

A deity creating something that it doesn't want to have is not necessarily contradictory - and please excuse me for saying this - it's just kind of stupid.

It's like if you created an intelligent beast and gave it the ability to eat you, but when it tries you yell at it and say "HOW DARE YOU! I AM YOUR MASTER!" and make it feel guilty for using the ability that you chose to give it.

I think there is a point where god finds the limit of his powers: does me make a beast so powerful that it could eat him (which is exactly what he wants in this hypothetical scenario) or does he compromise and make something less powerful, even though the beast isnt as "tricked out" as he'd like.

 

[54192&#cmy]

?​

 

[sprinkles]

I think there is a point where god finds the limit of his powers: does me make a beast so powerful that it could eat him (which is exactly what he wants in this hypothetical scenario) or does he compromise and make something less powerful, even though the beast isnt as "tricked out" as he'd like.

Maybe, but the point isn't what God made, but the attitude after doing so.

1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, 2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. 3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. 4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

Repent means to feel regret or remorse. God clearly felt that God made a mistake. It says so right there.

 

[just me]

What does the Hebrew tongue state in those words? "for it repenteth me that I have made them." I mean, the way it was written?

Next: And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Next: And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

If you can answer the first question, tell me how you would have felt. What would your attitude have been?

 

[LucyJr]

A deity creating something that it doesn't want to have is not necessarily contradictory

But that's not what the Bible say. The Bible says that God said that all Creation was good as He made it, and that includes man. So God want to have man, but holy, with moral excelence, loving good not evil, departing from sin, liying, deceit, steal, hate, wrath, greed, sloth, pride, lust, envy, and gluttony and many other sins. That's what God wants in a man.
If is a man that doesn't want ot repent and turn from his evil ways, than yes, God doesn not and can not have this man.
There are two kinds of people: those who say "Thy will be done" unto God, and those who Go says unto them "Thy will be done".

and please excuse me for saying this - it's just kind of stupid.

In fact is the wisest and beautiful thing that God ever made. Free will has options, morality has options. "It is possible that God, even being omnipotent, could not create a world with free creatures who never choose evil. Furthermore, it is possible that God, even being omnibenevolent, would desire to create a world which contains evil if moral goodness requires free moral creatures." (Alvin Platinga) By its very nature, moral goodness require free moral choices.

 

[LucyJr]

Maybe, but the point isn't what God made, but the attitude after doing so.

1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, 2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. 3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. 4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

Repent means to feel regret or remorse. God clearly felt that God made a mistake. It says so right there.

Repent does not mean to feel remorse, it means a change of mind. What God does is He changes His mind, especially with respect to sin. This repent-ness of God it shows very clear that His a person, it shows the personhood of God. God also change His mind when his people pray to Him.

Exodus 32:

7 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Go down, because your people, whom you brought up out of Egypt, have become corrupt.

8 They have been quick to turn away from what I commanded them and have made themselves an idol cast in the shape of a calf. They have bowed down to it and sacrificed to it and have said, ‘These are your gods, Israel, who brought you up out of Egypt.’

9 “I have seen these people,” the Lord said to Moses, “and they are a stiff-necked people.

10 Now leave me alone so that my anger may burn against them and that I may destroy them. Then I will make you into a great nation.”

11 But Moses sought the favor of the Lord his God. “Lord,” he said, “why should your anger burn against your people, whom you brought out of Egypt with great power and a mighty hand?

12 Why should the Egyptians say, ‘It was with evil intent that he brought them out, to kill them in the mountains and to wipe them off the face of the earth’? Turn from your fierce anger; relent and do not bring disaster on your people.

13 Remember your servants Abraham, Isaac and Israel, to whom you swore by your own self: ‘I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and I will give your descendants all this land I promised them, and it will be their inheritance forever.’”
14 Then the Lord repented and did not bring on his people the disaster he had threatened.

 

[Skarekrow]

But that's not what the Bible say. The Bible says that God said that all Creation was good as He made it, and that includes man. So God want to have man, but holy, with moral excelence, loving good not evil, departing from sin, liying, deceit, steal, hate, wrath, greed, sloth, pride, lust, envy, and gluttony and many other sins. That's what God wants in a man.
If is a man that doesn't want ot repent and turn from his evil ways, than yes, God doesn not and can not have this man.
There are two kinds of people: those who say "Thy will be done" unto God, and those who Go says unto them "Thy will be done".



In fact is the wisest and beautiful thing that God ever made. Free will has options, morality has options. "It is possible that God, even being omnipotent, could not create a world with free creatures who never choose evil. Furthermore, it is possible that God, even being omnibenevolent, would desire to create a world which contains evil if moral goodness requires free moral creatures." (Alvin Platinga) By its very nature, moral goodness require free moral choices.

Then we do not have true free will, therefore none at all.
There is certainly supporting evidence in the Bible that we do not have any free will whatsoever.
If so...I’m tired of being an action figure.

 

[the]

Repent does not mean to feel remorse, it means a change of mind. What God does is He changes His mind, especially with respect to sin. This repent-ness of God it shows very clear that His a person, it shows the personhood of God. God also change His mind when his people pray to Him.
.

Sorry but I disagree.

God isn’t a man that he would lie,
or a human being that he would change his mind.
Has he ever spoken and not done it,
or promised and not fulfilled it? Num 23:19

 

[Skarekrow]

Repent does not mean to feel remorse, it means a change of mind. What God does is He changes His mind, especially with respect to sin. This repent-ness of God it shows very clear that His a person, it shows the personhood of God. God also change His mind when his people pray to Him.

Exodus 32:

7 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Go down, because your people, whom you brought up out of Egypt, have become corrupt.

8 They have been quick to turn away from what I commanded them and have made themselves an idol cast in the shape of a calf. They have bowed down to it and sacrificed to it and have said, ‘These are your gods, Israel, who brought you up out of Egypt.’

9 “I have seen these people,” the Lord said to Moses, “and they are a stiff-necked people.

10 Now leave me alone so that my anger may burn against them and that I may destroy them. Then I will make you into a great nation.”

11 But Moses sought the favor of the Lord his God. “Lord,” he said, “why should your anger burn against your people, whom you brought out of Egypt with great power and a mighty hand?

12 Why should the Egyptians say, ‘It was with evil intent that he brought them out, to kill them in the mountains and to wipe them off the face of the earth’? Turn from your fierce anger; relent and do not bring disaster on your people.

13 Remember your servants Abraham, Isaac and Israel, to whom you swore by your own self: ‘I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and I will give your descendants all this land I promised them, and it will be their inheritance forever.’”
14 Then the Lord repented and did not bring on his people the disaster he had threatened.

Those passages just make God sound wishy-washy, unable to make up his mind, easily swayed, and hot-headed.
And when are the Jews going to get all this shit He promised them? Maybe, (according to the above attributes) He saw a squirrel and got distracted.
It’s nice to know that God plays favorites with people based purely on bloodlines...

 

[LucyJr]

I think you confuse free will with the options of free will. I have to hurry, so I'll just leave you with a question:
Let's say the law forbids murder in one country. If you broke that law openly or not, you will be punished. One child molester sees this as a open violation of his own free will. He thinks that he doesn't have free will sudenly because of that law. Do you think he is right or not?

[MENTION=5045]Skarekrow[/MENTION], please can you answer at this question, its very important in our little discussion...