An afternoon with the NYPD | INFJ Forum

An afternoon with the NYPD

Satya

C'est la vie
Retired Staff
May 11, 2008
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Does this seem excessive to anyone?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxjNVSCs_Lg"]YouTube - An afternoon with the NYPD[/ame]

Here is the story from the perspective of the filmer...
We were enjoying the nice spring weather from our balcony. A friend was visiting on his bike, and he rode up on the sidewalk from the street to our front door. In NYC this is illegal. You are supposed to stop in the street, get off the bike and walk it on the sidewalk. Although he was merely coming from the street up to our front door, those few second were illegal. NYPD rolls up and tickets him for this ($150 fine or appear in court!).

Meanwhile our neighbor walks by while this scene is unfolding. They exchange some banter. We all laughed. He keeps walking.

From there everything escalates... Seems completely unnecessary to me...

At the end of the day, he was charged with harassment, disorderly conduct and resisting arrest.

Welcome to an afternoon with the NYPD
 
[sarcasm]Tax dollars well-spent.[/sarcasm]

Every reaction those cops had was unreasonable. From the guy on the bike to the bystander.
 
as someone who currently lives in ny, let me take this opportunity to say...


fuck the po-lice!
 
Thats a bit of contrast to what my local police are like, i remember one time i was stationary at an intersection behind a cop car. Another lane was just taking off and a young fella situated himself so he was half hanging out the car flapping his tongue and arms about as he passed by us. The coppers were unfazed. It was one of the most ridiculous (but funny) things i've seen.
 
Excessive? You betcha', but sounds about right considering interactions I've had/witnessed.
 
damn those nypd PIGS
 
It was excessive, but the second guy was being a moron, what do you expect when you're interrupting them?

And then the histrionic bitches showing up at the end. *yawn* Typical "pig behavior" as exacerbated by a few trashy dip shits. It goes both ways.
 
yeah serve and protect all right.
 
I sympathize with the people in the video. This is how the police lied to peaceful protesters in London, reassuring them that they would not get arrested and that they should walk out via a specific exit, then got them arrested as soon as they walked out:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/mar/28/cuts-protest-uk-uncut-fortnum

It later emerged in a parliamentary hearing that they were doing this for intelligence purposes, i.e. interrogating peaceful protesters who had, in fact, not broken any laws (but who were conducting the most successful activism campaign in the UK in recent history).

Most police officers are thugs, no better than the criminals who bribe them and the state officials who order them to abuse innocents. I would rather the community policed itself than that it had the police crippling its welfare.
 
Most police officers are thugs, no better than the criminals who bribe them and the state officials who order them to abuse innocents. I would rather the community policed itself than that it had the police crippling its welfare.


***The naivety in this comment is astounding. How can you make such a broad and generalized comment? Its like saying all people of color are drug dealers and all homosexuals have HIV. If the community could or even cared to police itself, perhaps we wouldn't need police, but seriously, that will happen when pigs fly and Hell freezes over... right about the same time we have world peace. The complete lack of intelligence shown here is precisely the reason we need police. I'd rather narrow minded comments like this were never posted than have it here crippling my intelligence.***

OK, now that I have that out of my system, back to the issue.

First and foremost: From what I can see and hear with the poor audio at the beginning, why the cops ever bothered to even get out of the van stumps me. I would have ignored him completely. Maybe there is history here we don't know about? I just cannot see why they felt they needed to even interject, let alone confront the guy. It seems assinine to me.

From there, once they decide to go down this slick path I can tell you basically why they did what they did. There are a few basic rules:
1. When a cop askes you for your ID, you need to give it to him. Failure to do so, reguardless of how vaugue the reason, is a big wrong move.
2. Take it out of the folder/wallet/plastic it is in, especially when asked to by said officer. (Failure to do so makes said cop suspicious... what are you hiding.)
3. Police have the right to hold you until you can be properly identified. To avoid this see #1&2.
4. Police will arrest and detain you if they cannot ID you. It is in your best interest to show you have nothing to hide and ID yourself.
5. DO NOT come flying up on a group of officers screaming and whailing and having general hysterics. Your fool Man shoulda given his ID, and he would've walked if there was nothing to find. BIG DUH here. She is lucky SHE wasn't arrested. I was a-waitin' for someone to get tazed. Oh, yeah, and awesome idea resisting... give him an intelligence award.


Now, all that being said, what the hell were they bothering with this for in the first place? This is not how I would have gone about it. But I sure-as-shit would arrest you if you will not ID yourself. I wouldn't have engaged him at all in the first place. I've been sworn at, called names, flipped off, honked at.... you name it. you pretty much ignore it. I can only imagine there was some history here. I hope so.

But if you listen to some, we are all PIGS. Thieves, assholes, thugs, criminals. Low life pieces of shit on power trips. Right? RIGHT?? Excuse me for standing up for myself, my fellow cops and my profession. But if you think you are so superior and could do such a better job, if you want to lump us into one category and threaten our lives, **I'll show you personally where you can stick it.**

Granted I am in a pissy mood, but the ignorance just astounds me. WTF??? I work with good people. Sure there are a couple of turds that make me wince, but they are seriously outnumbered by the good, moral, hard-working individuals that make up our Law Enforcement. I work with fathers, mothers, spouses of pastors; widowers, veterans... all goog people who got into this profession because they wanted to help people. Because they wanted to work for the Greater Good. To be there if YOU need help. Sure, you spit on us now... but you'll call us when someone breaks into your house, beats you up, mugs your mother or rapes your sister. You'll expect us to do our job all while you are sticking the knife in our backs.

You know what? I suddenly realize my rant will not make one iota of difference. Why am I bothering? Your mind will not change. I am going to go back to doing my job, the best I can, even while you call me names and threaten my life and lifes of my family. I'll help you when you need it, protect you, take a bullet to save you if necessary, as you bad mouth me with your last breath. That's fine, because I know I have done my best, have done my job. I am a good person. I am proud of my badge, my job, and my lifestyle. I live for my job. My family is proud, and my kids want to be LEO's when they grow up. Can you say the same?:m032::m032::m032::m032:
 
1. When a cop askes you for your ID, you need to give it to him. Failure to do so, reguardless of how vaugue the reason, is a big wrong move.
2. Take it out of the folder/wallet/plastic it is in, especially when asked to by said officer. (Failure to do so makes said cop suspicious... what are you hiding.)
3. Police have the right to hold you until you can be properly identified. To avoid this see #1&2.
4. Police will arrest and detain you if they cannot ID you. It is in your best interest to show you have nothing to hide and ID yourself.
Doesn't this depend on state/local law? I'm pretty sure depending on where you live you do not have to produce ID unless you are being detained.
 
Doesn't this depend on state/local law? I'm pretty sure depending on where you live you do not have to produce ID unless you are being detained.


Very Good point. Here, where I work, it is unlawful to disobey a direct, lawful order from an LEO. We can (and will) detain you for the purposes of proper identification. This is called a Rule 3 exception among other things.

He was also guilty, at least under our laws, of Disorderly Conduct. And, I suspect, you have to push us much further to get to that point than you do in NY.
 
Hi, Enigma. You mentioned that you would "show me where to stick it" in the above post, and stated that not obeying police officers is a "big wrong move". There was also the implication that police officers have a right to detain people who have not broken any laws. That's the kind of attitude I'm talking about, the attitude of a thug - a person who desires to dominate people and is willing to inflict abuse to support that desire.

The problem of police abuse is acknowledged as being widespread. To begin with, there is the "blue code of silence", a principle whereby police brutality and (to a lesser extent) police corruption should be covered up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Code_of_Silence

Indeed, when people complain against it, the police cover it up. Only 19 of 10,000 complaints against the police resulted in meaningful consequences for the perpetrators.
http://news.medill.northwestern.edu/chicago/news.aspx?id=6125

It could be argued that the police do not act according to the law, but merely under the color of law.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_of_law

This is what I refer to when talking about the community policing itself:
http://libcom.org/library/popular-justice-community-policing-guerrero-mexico-26032009
It works better than a regular police force as it is less prone to corruption; the community has more of an interest in supporting itself than the police has to support it. The most effective thing about it is that police positions are assigned via elections and are rotated every few years, so that police officers who harm the community cannot easily rely on the ties they built with other police officers to escape justice. Moreover, a community police force encourages cooperation among people, unlike a standard police force that encourages dependency on external institutions.

Here are some examples of police misconduct caught on camera; numerous others are available on youtube.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mvIWFXbHNo"]YouTube - Police Brutality: Cop Kills Dog, Tries To Buy Owner's Silence![/ame]
(the department lies to and attempts to bribe a woman after a police officer shot her dog)

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFUpa0OwlyU&playnext=1&list=PL033D9401E9127CC4"]YouTube - police brutality - go skateboarding day: cop vs skaters[/ame]
(police officers attack a person without cause, as well as those who peacefully intervene in an attempt to rescue him; note the comments from one of them: "keep your hands on your back or I'll spray you"; "when you resist, that's what happens". Only a thug would act that way.)

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgfuBgWVsV8&playnext=1&list=PL8EB371D5D1485FF8[/ame]
(police officers beat someone up and charge him with assault)

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HECMVdl-9SQ&NR=1"]YouTube - Video of police assault on Ian Tomlinson, who died at the London G20 protest[/ame]
(police officers beat up a bystander at the London protests as he is walking home; he later dies of the injury, but none of the officers are imprisoned or sacked)

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZW0gGKKYMg"]YouTube - Bad Cop caught on tape![/ame]
(police officer verbally abuses and threatens children)

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZDrZDEqeKk[/ame]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodney_King
(police beat up Rodney King, sparking the 1992 LA riots)

Also, examples of police behaving abusively against protesters:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gs-BlQRT634&playnext=1&list=PL033D9401E9127CC4"]YouTube - To Protect & Serve: UC Santa Cruz Police Brutality[/ame]
(riot police attack a camp of protesters, torture most people and even sexually abuse one of the protesters by rubbing their penis against his mouth. I have absolutely no idea how anyone could tolerate, let alone defend such people. I certainly hope the protesters made efforts to bring them to justice, though I could not find information on actions.)

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t244-zEENSs"]YouTube - Riot police attack peaceful protesters at G20 Climate Camp[/ame]
(police at the G20 protests attack innocents)

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G63FEamhpA0&feature=related"]YouTube - Miami Police Shot Protester, then laugh about it.[/ame]
(police shoot a woman with rubber bullets, then laugh about it afterwards while talking to each other in a large group; no person without a thuggish mindset would do this)

Indeed, it is very common for the police to exhibit brutality at large protests.
Based on such videos, it is easy to liken police forces to occupying armies - not a part of the community they exist in, but a separate entity that attempts to dominate that community.

Police corruption, and retaliation against genuinely good police whistleblowers:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3dGWoScAnw"]YouTube - City Room: Watching 'Serpico' With Serpico[/ame]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Serpico
(Colleagues allowed Frank Serpico to be shot during a drug bust and did not assist him afterwards)

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pJtK2N2peI&feature=fvst"]YouTube - Outrage over SA police corruption[/ame]
(South African Police - an academic suggests 10% of the police force may be committing crimes)

Finally, some popular press and wikipedia articles:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/mar/17/smiley-culture-stabbed-heart-postmortem
(the police stab an innocent man to death while visiting his house for questioning)

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article7083596.ece
(police kill innocents, their department helps cover it up until a federal enquiry reveals their evil actions)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rampart_scandal
(the CRASH rampart scandal, showing that the entire CRASH department of LAPD colluded with the Bloods, an LA gang)

The stories I keep reading suggest that the departments themselves support these thugs, as opposed to exposing them. Note how it is typical for the police to go to great lengths to cover up their colleagues' wrongdoing, and how few of the perpetrators are brought to justice. Furthermore, it's not just these stories. I have seen homeless people and minorities being harrassed by police officers, simply because these officers can get away with it.
 
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[mods]:mod: (sorry, I had to add that) Argument and disagreement is fine, but let's keep the personal jabs out of it.[/mods]
 
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I, too, could post a bunch of skewed videos about the amazing job law enforcement does. The sacrifices, the lives saved or bettered...

But its meaningless.

What has meaning is the job i do everyday, the people I help, and every breath I take that proves you wrong.
 
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Since I'm naturally inclined to be a bit anti authoritarian, I got curious and snooped around Google on this ID issue. It seems that whether or not you have to produce ID varies by state! In some states it's not unlawful to refuse to produce ID, even if you are under arrest. In some states you only have to produce ID if the police officer has a legit reason to ask you for it. The tricky part is that the police officer does not have to tell you the reason, and I guess usually they would have a reason that they feel is legit.
 
Wait. Is ID compulsory in the states?

And they say the UK is run by Big Brother...
 
I don't think so. I think you'd have to give your name in lieu of ID. Maybe address and date of birth too. And by legit reason I meant reasonable suspicion, or over the course of investigation into a crime or complaint.