A question on Gay Rights | INFJ Forum

A question on Gay Rights

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by NaeturVindur, Dec 8, 2008.

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  1. NaeturVindur

    NaeturVindur Cuddlemaster
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    This is a question I’ve been wondering over for a long time, and I’m curious what kind of answers I’ll get here:
    What are the reasons for feeling that GLBTQ people (Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transsexual, Questioning) do not deserve the same rights/privileges/respect as their heterosexual counterparts? I’ve never understood why people feel this way, beyond “because the bible tells us its wrong.” Can anyone enlighten me?

    A few notes on this thread:
    1. To those who feel that GLBTQ people DO deserve the same rights/privileges/respect, thank you for your support, but I don’t need to hear reasons for that side. I already understand that opinion because I share it. Your opinions are welcome, however, if you have had some insight into the other side.
    2. To those who feel GLBTQ people do NOT deserve the same rights/privileges/respect, as you have already seen, I disagree. However, I will try as hard as I can to respect your opinions here. Also, I am well aware of the religious arguments, so you don’t have to say them again.
     
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  2. Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    I think they deserve the same rights everyone else has; The right to take whatever you can, and keep whatever you can defend.

    What I hate is Marti Gras where there's a whole bunch over the top wankers parading around as if they deserve the right to fuck with my visual and personal space. Heterosexual and Homosexual peoples do that. Shits me off. What I also hate is being hit on after I tell them I'm not interested. There's a person who is staying at the hotel I work at, drag queen who keeps coming down to the front counter to hit on me and victor and all the other guests. It's pathetic, and extremely annoying. A Heterosexual guy cannot do that without being escorted off the property, so why should a homosexual guy be allowed to?

    That's all the problems I have, and they're all tied into invasion of my personal space.
     
  3. IndigoSensor

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    It comes down to these factors:

    - Ignorance. I.E. not willing to understand details behind what it means to be gay, on a social, and bioligical scale.
    - Fear
    - Lazyness to decide. I.E. people insantly see it as "wierd" or "strange", and thus dub it as bad, and think nothing more of it. Think of it as watching a movie preview and thinking it is bad. olny to find later that after seeing the movie, it was good.
    - Normalacy. Straights are obviously not the same as gays, and therefore are seen as not normal. and most people euqate nor normal to bad.
    - Echoing. I.E. repeating what other people say. Kind of like group think.

    Thats enough for now.
     
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  4. IndigoSensor

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    I 100% agree.
     
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  5. FC3S

    FC3S Community Member

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    Because of bloody tradition. [Edit] The concept of marriage seems to be the biggest problem. Here's an idea. Let's abolish it. We'll let everyone hook up with whoever they want, for however long they want. It'll cause problems, but the current system also has problems.

    Maybe people will see each other for what they really are.
     
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  6. meiro

    meiro Community Member

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    I thought everybody was bisexual in the beginning.It was just the matter of choice isn't it?
     
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  7. Mannit

    Mannit Community Member

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    I'm not sure if it's purely a matter of choice meiro. In my opinion, it's how you're born. I know of many people who wish that they were straight, because of the shame, guilt, and resentment they feel, as well as enduring prejudices of others.

    I agree with IndigoSensor *nods*
     
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  8. FC3S

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    It's both. A person is born towards an alignment and that alignment can be changed. My aunt was born straight, she went lesbian because of a bad marriage. Whether it changed her actual biological attraction is uncertain. My alignment is straight, I became bi out of choice. It conflicts directly with my alignment.
     
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  9. Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    I have a suspicion that women are naturally bisexual. But that could just be me wishing extra hard... heh.
     
  10. IndigoSensor

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    It is not a choice.


    Also, does it matter of it is a choice or not? NO

    Think of it this way, can you force yourself to like one person or not? nope. You can to a very very very small degree, but that is it. It would not be a full attraction. Not to mention, being gay is a more diffucalt lifestyle, what normal person would choose it willingly? Not me.

    There are physiological differences in the brains of gay men and women compared to there straight counterparts, signifying that this is largely (I personally think purely) biological.

    yup, that is ye olde wishful thinking :tongue1:
     
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  11. Satya

    Satya C'est la vie
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    I'll give you the arguments.

    Gays don't want "equal rights" they want "special rights". First off, they want the right to be as open and obscene in the public about their lifestyle as possible. Just look at gay pride parades. Second, they want special hate crimes rights because they want everyone to think of them as victims of circumstance, who were born the way they are rather than having chosen to be that way. Third, they want the right to marriage in order to normalize their perversion. Everyone already has the right to marry someone of the opposite sex, so that is clearly a special right. Fourth, they want access to children so they can corrupt them while they are young and produce more homosexuals. That is why they want special rights to adopt kids as a same sex couple, they want special protection so they aren't prohibited from being teachers in public schools, and they want public schools to teach that homosexuality is normal and natural. That is also why they all secretly want to lower the age of consent. It is a statistical fact that homosexuals are more likely to be child molesters. Fifth, they want to discredit the scriptures in order to quiet any moral disagreement with their actions. Sixth, they work alongside feminists and communists using propaganda and "science" in order to attack American family values in order to destroy the basic unit of the moral fabric of society, thus bringing about America's decline.
     
  12. Mannit

    Mannit Community Member

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    haha Satya, I wrote a reply in opposition to pretty much everything you wrote. I then re-read the first post...and felt pretty silly when I read the question posed :p
     
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    #12 Mannit, Dec 8, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2008
  13. Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    Those are some pretty fucking good arguments Satya.

    DOWN WITH HOMOSEXUALS!!

    And maybe then we can have a return to good old White Christian home values.
     
  14. IndigoSensor

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    The majority of these are not "special rights" as far as I am concerened.

    Being open and obscene isn't a "right" nor does it need to be. Homosexuals are going to act "Fruity McGay Gay" regardless. And who is to say straights don't already act obcene. MTV anyone?

    Of course Homosexuals want hate crime legesliation. It happens. If people start comitting crimes because people are straight (and this has not happened to my knolage), then hate crime laws would be in place for that.

    It is not a perversion... I have no idea where you got that notion. Yes, we want the right to marry, because everyone else has the abillity to. We are to cause no harm out of marrying, so no damage will be done. No more at least then heterosexual marriges cause.

    A homosexual couple will cause no more or less problems then a heterosexual couple would in an adoption. They already happen, and display no differences in problem. As far as public schools. How often does a teachers personal life get involved with there teaching? almost never. It is a trivial factor.

    Disregarding the fact that I think "scripture" is BS, there is more then one scrpiture, and not everyone follows or agrees with scripture.

    "science" when proven, is a proven fact. using feminists and comunism and labeling them as dismantaling "family values" is a baseless right end attack...
     
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  15. Quinlan

    Quinlan Right the First Time!

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    Hah me too!
     
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  16. Seeker

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    Is that your arguments, or is it what you think other people thinks about it?
     
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  17. civilianjones

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    Haha! Great idea.

    "Honey, I love you a lot... will you sign a monogamy contract that will last until our children turn 18?"
     
  18. Quinlan

    Quinlan Right the First Time!

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    I think those are the common arguments that Satya is aware of.
     
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  19. Morpheus

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    Obviously everyone deserves equal rights. The common discrimination against different sexualities has a few causes I think. Religious and traditional values are generally against everything that is precieved as different, and that plays a huge part in the equasion. However, I don't believe that tradition and social conditioning are nescessary the root of the problem (and intolerance is, indeed, a problem) rather, people just hide behind them and use them to justify their prejudices and intolerance. In western culture (which has been grealty influenced by christianity) sex and sexuality is simultaneously considered dirty and wrong, and something that is to be desired. This creates very sexually confused population, I believe. And when one is confused by something that is part of oneself, it becomes an oversensitive topic.

    In short: people are confused by their own sexuality and thus see different sexual orientations as scary and/or threatening.
     
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    #19 Morpheus, Dec 8, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2008
  20. Quinlan

    Quinlan Right the First Time!

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    Excellent point Marc, it also adds to a whole heap of unnecessary and misplaced guilt and shame.
     
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