Why are you nice?

[Wyote]

@Deleted member 16771 Absolutely, though I would argue that to an INTJ it is more similar than you might expect. The difference is in deriving the outspokenness.
Where INFJs will become outspoken in the case of a moral injustice that disrupts harmony, an INTJ will become outspoken with regards to disruptions in utility.
INFJs want the environment to be harmonic, INTJs want the environment to be effective.

INFJs tend to be people pleasing for the sake of harmonization, but aren't necessarily going around waiting hand and foot on people.
Sometimes, for many reasons, it's easier and/or better for a person to be servile for the sake of bringing harmony to fruition.
But if you as an individual see a better pathway, and feel enough self-efficacy to travel the path, you will absolutely take it.

 

[Zola]

Yeah, and I didn't mean to question your type, Hostarious. I was thrown off when you said you were "belligerently outspoken" without saying what it was about -- until you made it clear in your next post that you did it in defense of others. That's good. INFJs need leaders, too.

 

[Deleted member 16771]

Yeah, and I didn't mean to question your type, Hostarious. I was thrown off when you said you were "belligerently outspoken" without saying what it was about -- until you made it clear in your next post that you did it in defense of others. That's good. INFJs need leaders, too.

Oh I don't mind people offering perspectives on my type, on the contrary I would welcome different analyses, &c.

I have my own opinion, though, so I just thought I'd clarify where I was coming from with that particular phrase. You're right, it does sound a bit INTJ! But then I think it applies to people like MLK, too, &c.

 

[Wyote]

Basically @Deleted member 16771 is an INFJ with exceptionally high self-efficacy
Or he just wants us all to think he is

 

[Deleted member 16771]

Basically @Deleted member 16771 is an INFJ with exceptionally high self-efficacy
Or he just wants us all to think he is

Lolol

Oh I'm definitely a potato, definitely.

 

[Ginny]

First of all, I really enjoyed reading your discussion @Zola @Deleted member 16771 @Wyote. I'll probably still have to look up a few terms.

I'm trying not to gush, but this is perfect.

It's hardly perfect, although it may be adequate if everyone would do it - but they generally don't. Doesn't mean that we can't educate them if we do it consistently.

You can be nice and lack boundaries, but it will only get you so far, and you'll eventually be taken for disingenuous if you don't learn proper boundary-ing.

I guess I am one of those people who haven't developed proper boundaries yet. I let people get too close and let them hurt me (even though I should know better) and that isn't good - I need to work on that. It's a side-effect of learning to open up again. I think I can track the origins too. But the most important thing is that I am trying to change that, to both show weakness and keep developing boundaries.

 

[Wyote]

I guess I am one of those people who haven't developed proper boundaries yet. I let people get too close and let them hurt me (even though I should know better) and that isn't good - I need to work on that. It's a side-effect of learning to open up again. I think I can track the origins too.

that, to both show weakness and keep developing boundaries.

It is a constant effort. It's in the efforting that we offset negative/inefficient etc. shenanigans.
If you have arrived, there is always a new horizon but you may be too busy with self congratulations to notice
Which is fine, some celebration is in order for reaching whatever new heights there are on an infinitely tall mountain

the most important thing is that I am trying

 

[Ginny]

too busy with self congratulations to notice

LOL Honestly, if all my other "projects" are anything to go by, I'll probably already be moving over to the next thing that I have neglected for the while I have been doing the other (I kind of circulate all the time). Or I'll be instantly bored and looking for a new one. I might have a short moment of "yey, I made it" upon which immediately follows "and what now?"

 

[Wyote]

LOL Honestly, if all my other "projects" are anything to go by, I'll probably already be moving over to the next thing that I have neglected for the while I have been doing the other (I kind of circulate all the time). Or I'll be instantly bored and looking for a new one. I might have a short moment of "yey, I made it" upon which immediately follows "and what now?"

Ah well, neglect is a whole other topic

 

[Gaze]

Being nice is less about me than giving people a reason to not make your life more difficult. At some point you stop caring as much whether people take advantage of you because you can't always control how people view things.

Adjustment is a part of life.

You can quietly set boundaries as someone else said but there's always someone who will cross them, and you don't always have the luxury of setting them straight. Sometimes you have to navigate around the challenges.

I've worked very hard to become a more personable and pleasant personality (despite my your demeanor online ) and easy going person for everyone's sake. When I was reserved and not very expressive, people thought I was not very nice, unhappy, upset, or mean (which was sometimes true but not always).

Sometimes I'm was just inside my head. I had guys telling me I should smile more. The constant attention paid to my face was overwhelming so I just gave in to make life easier for myself and everyone happier. Fewer issues and complaints.

No one really cares how you really feel anyway, if it's not positive, so to make them
feel happier with you, you show a happy face. And a happy face is associated with being nice.

Being nice is also associated with being stupid or clueless, especially if you're not always tough or accommodating. But hey, you can't please everyone.

 

[Zola]

Being nice is less about me than giving people a reason to not make your life more difficult.

Sign me up for this philosophy. I just thought today, "Stop making trouble for yourself." Even for a good reason, you can fall into a trap when you make a mountain out of a molehill. It's like calling out a malevolent spirit by name at a seance.

You can quietly set boundaries as someone else said but there's always someone who will cross them, and you don't always have the luxury of setting them straight. Sometimes you have to navigate around the challenges.

Ginny: This. You can put up fences, but some animals will jump them or break them down. Then the challenge is to pick your way through the mess without getting cut.

Case in point: I took a couple out to dinner, and the man came, spoiling for a fight. After he created a scene in public, I should have picked up the check and left. It was like one of those "Me Too" moments where the victim is too shocked to yell or run.

I've worked very hard to become a more personable and pleasant personality... I had guys telling me I should smile more.

Haha. I've heard that one before, too. I have developed the most beautiful expression that doubles for a grin or a squint, depending on what I need. It's wonderful. I could teach you...

 

[Gaze]

Haha. I've heard that one before, too. I have developed the most beautiful expression that doubles for a grin or a squint, depending on what I need. It's wonderful. I could teach you...

Thanks. Yeah, I kinda have one down too. The only thing is people think you're either the weirdest or most naive person they've ever met for seeming so nice or being expressive with a smile, even if it's fake. Fact is, just like that server who has to be the nicest and most awesome server in the world even if they don't like you or you're the most difficult customer they've ever had, most of us are nice because it's a survival strategy. When you're genuinely nice, people just treat you like you're innocent and clueless, so instead, niceness becomes less something you do for real and more a way to avoid negative views of you as too reserved, anti-social, depressed, etc. especially when you're interacting with the public everyday. It kinda stops being a choice, because if you don't seem nice, there are social and other consequences. So, It's pretty much living life on the surface to play at being nice (which I don't think is good or healthy in the long run) but what else can you do? I would love to genuinely be able to be genuinely nice without feeling ridiculous rather than give forced positive expressions, but this is the world we live in. I think you do have to monitor how nice you are to people, especially when they don't deserve it. So, yeah, I think it's still possible to draw the line at being nice to people who're just using you and don't return the favor. I have a tough time being firm sometimes, and that's mostly because I don't want to have to make the effort to make someone realize they're being a douche. So, I usually just let it go. They probably think they've won, but the fight's not worth it.

 

[Ginny]

Ginny: This. You can put up fences, but some animals will jump them or break them down. Then the challenge is to pick your way through the mess without getting cut.

Got cut, still healing. It was clumsy to apply non-expectation to all walks of life, as well as to compensate with over-expectation whenever the shadow comes over me. My interpretation (a new project) stresses that I have been doing the right thing, but I should be more nuanced in which way I apply it and when I should do the opposite.

 

[Icedream]

Unkindness is pointless and unproductive.

 

[Pin]

I think I'm actually pretty agreeable because I don't have time for petty squabbles.

I only get pissy when people threaten my plans.

 

[Zoned Out Again]

we do it because it feels right...

Yeah. I won't feel normal if I can't be nice.

but I always fall into these patterns of helping others and then end up worse than I started. I start to think that this world was made for assholes.

Sometimes it feels like everyone around me seem to have the asshole gene deeply embedded in their DNA. Even when they know it doesnt yield anything positive in the long run, they can't live life without being assholes. It's strange really.

why are you nice?

Because I would love to be treated that way. It balances everything.

It's like Sam cooke said:

"Don't know much about history
Don't know much biology
Don't know much about a science book,
Don't know much about the french I took
But I do know that I love you,
And I know that if you love me, too,
What a wonderful world this would be."