What is crazy? | INFJ Forum

What is crazy?

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jimtaylor

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May 19, 2010
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According to the Merriam-Webster dictionary it is something that is full of cracks or flaws. Following this official definition would it not mean then that we are all crazy? What person is not flawed in some way, either mentally or physically? The answer would be none, so what is the point of this word if in some way we are all crazy? It is probably the same reason a lot of words exist. It has to do with our own insecurities. For some reason people feel the need too see others suffer and do worse to them to feel better about themselves. If anything is crazy, that is what is crazy. That as a species that has evolved far enough to leave our own planet, we do not have the mental powers to get over jealousy.

I actually find it rather funny and by studying this reaction you can then begin to understand why people go to war in the name of
 
I can surely sympathize with your frame of mind after having those visitors. Religion has many facets, some are as you describe, but some are the exact opposite. I suggest we encourage the good, resist the rest, and not throw all religious thought into one lump.
 
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Let me first start off by saying that we are all crazy, but we are not all insane.

in
 
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jimtaylor said:
According to the Merriam-Webster dictionary it is something that is full of cracks or flaws. Following this official definition would it not mean then that we are all crazy? What person is not flawed in some way, either mentally or physically? The answer would be none, so what is the point of this word if in some way we are all crazy? It is probably the same reason a lot of words exist. It has to do with our own insecurities. For some reason people feel the need too see others suffer and do worse to them to feel better about themselves. If anything is crazy, that is what is crazy. That as a species that has evolved far enough to leave our own planet, we do not have the mental powers to get over jealousy.

I actually find it rather funny and by studying this reaction you can then begin to understand why people go to war in the name of “god”. What a stupid reason to fight. If you are going to fight, fight over something practical like wealth, power, land, a beautiful woman. Then at least your a smart tyrant instead of stupid one. Anyways, it is the same insanity. This person does not believe in my god so I am going to kill them to make them see the light and error of their ways. Sure makes sense to me. You can believe in god and all that stuff, but the existence of religion is a travesty against anything it is supposedly trying to teach. What are some of the most extravagant, most expensive and elaborate buildings in the world created for? Religion, not god. God; if there is a god, could care less about a big building with weird rules that don’t make sense. God would more so care about how we act as human beings, not as mindless followers of cults. That is what all religion is, cults. People gathering to form a dedicated and ignorant mass of soldiers. We do not have to go to a church every Sunday, pay money to the church, drink a sip of Jesus blood “wine or water”, and sit on your knees in silence to do right by god. So instead of wasting our time following some senseless religious practice that was created by MEN; not god, how about we go out and do something to help mankind.

You might go to church on Sunday but that bum you pass everyday could actually use help. A good person would help the bum and not need church to tell him to do so. A good man would go out of their way to assist someone else and not need a church to tell them to do so. Are we really not evolved enough to think beyond that? Do you we need a religion to dictate your entire life and decide what is right and wrong for you? Can you not decide that on your own? I am not part of any religion but I am not a bad person because of it. I give money to people who I see are in need. I donate my older clothing that I can no longer fit in to homeless shelters and such. I have helped with charity’s like make a wish foundation. I have also dedicated time to retirement homes and I help people on a regular basis. I did not need religion to tell me to do this stuff. I did not need religion to tell me what is right and wrong. I do not need religion to tell me that drinking and driving are bad. I do not need religion to tell me that killing another person is wrong.

Now what religious nut jobs forget to mention or see are all the people that kill in the name of god. More people on the face of earth have died in the name of god than any other contributing factor. It is not god’s fault though, it is religions fault. The people who follow the words of man as the word of god are the people to blame. The people who in their lives have never had an independent thought and only know what their religious book says. Well guess what, that book was written by man, not by god. It is flawed; ie crazy, just like the rest of mankind. So do not tell me that I am a bad person because I do not believe in religion. Do not pass judgement on me because I do not follow a book that was written by man and is flawed. Do not pass judgement on me because I live my life to the fullest while at the same time being a good person. It is not an all or none situation. You can do right by god and mankind while not believing in religion. If you just believe in the good in humanity. If you believe that with a little hard work, we can all become better and walk towards a much brighter future. Religion is a blight upon the otherwise briliant imagination of humanity. It was not created by such figures as Jesus to be a mind control device. They wanted us to think for ourselves and for each other, to help each other. Yet all religion has done is create hate and animosity. The teachings great men lost in the blind ambition of flawed men and it has been exploited to control those who cannot think for themselves.

Sorry about this rant. Just got lectured by three LDS members about how I am going to rot in hell for not being a part of the church. Just frustrates me that some people believe religion makes them better by any way. Normally I just ignore it and walk away but these people where awfully persistent.
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Psh. Everything aside, you're not going to rot in hell because you won't have a body. Typically, that's required for rotting. :tongue: I understand your frustration though, especially when people are persistently dogmatic. Personally I do believe many people use religion for good, even though I'm not religious myself; however, it's used as an excuse for ill far, far too often, imo.

Also, I don't normally do this but it really bugs me and boggles my mind that in this day and age people still use male terms to speak for both males and females. I just don't get it. So in response to most of the bolded parts:

1. Humankind.
2. And yes, the bible was written by men but not by man.

And 'crazy' is an interesting concept..
 
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Soulful said:
Psh. Everything aside, you're not going to rot in hell because you won't have a body. Typically, that's required for rotting. :tongue: I understand your frustration though, especially when people are persistently dogmatic. Personally I do believe many people use religion for good, even though I'm not religious myself; however, it's used as an excuse for ill far, far too often.

I don't normally do this but it really bugs me and boggles my mind that in this day and age people still use male terms to speak for both males and females. I just don't get it. So in response to most of the bolded parts:

1. Humankind.
2. And yes, the bible was written by men but not by man.

And 'crazy' is an interesting concept..
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LOL...your pragmatic approach to hell comforts me greatly [MENTION=407]Soulful[/MENTION] !!
 
Soulful said:
Hahaha. I'm glad! The same can be said for burning.
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Just don't tell me the devil can't put a pineapple up Hitlers backside like in "Little Nicky" or I will be greatly disappointed! :m097:


...sorry, back to the regularly scheduled thread now!
 
*shrugs & lol* Hitler's always an exception.



Yes, didn't mean to hijack thread. Please resume. :)
 
jimtaylor said:
If you are going to fight, fight over something practical like wealth, power, land, a beautiful woman.
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Actually, I think this IS really why most wars are fought....generally they just overlay "God" to obfiscate and/or manupulate public opinion.
 
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Saying that we are all full of cracks and flaws may be going a bit too far. Surely we are not perfect, but crazy would tend to indicate that the flaws are the dominant feature. Thanks to a class in material science the term crazy makes me think if crazing in a technical sense, which is the kind of irreversible damage suffered by plastics once their polymers begin to unravel. You know how when you tear open a candy rapper part of it is stretched and becomes a lighter color, more opaque, harder, more brittle, and cannot be put back the way it was? That is crazing. Polymeric materials tend to have a lot of flaws to begin with, but it is not crazing until the flaws align properly and make the material overly ordered.



Insane is more generally and etymologically conservatively defined simply as "unhealthy." Only in fairly recent times as its common usage been limited to those mentally rather than physical unhealthy. I doubt anyone is perfectly healthy, without even risk factors for future disease. Both our physical and mental health are relative things.


The idea of naturally immortal, immaterial, and thus insensitive souls that could not truly suffer punishment for their sins was strongly denounced by such early christian figures as Justin Martyr as being a heresy of pagan origin. The bible does not speak of disembodied souls for either the righteous or wicked. it is quite clear that there will be a bodily resurrection. (Of course, there is a long standing idea that this is "Corpus, non Caro" ("body, not flesh") and might not be of a physical nature subject to decay. Incorruptibility seems to be described as something the righteous put on after the resurrection though, not a quality of every resurrected body.)


There are 3 terms translated as hell in the New Testament: Hades, Gehenna, and Tartaroo.

Hades seems pretty clearly to correspond to the Hebrew notion of Sheol, and is best understood as the grave or the state of not being alive. Apart from the parable of Lazarus and the rich man (which is probably just symbolic and according to many experts quite possibly a later insertion), scripture points to those in Sheol as being completely unconscious. The new testament is clear though that no one stays in Hades/Sheol forever, as all will be resurrected to face judgment.

Gehenna is literally the valley of the sons of Hinnom, a place once used by the Israelites to sacrifice their children as burnt offerings to the Canaanite god Moloch. (God declares it would never even enter his mind to have a son burnt there.) Later this place was turned into the garbage dump of the city of Jerusalem, a great landfill where there were always incinerators running to burn the refuse into ask before burring it and letting the worms consume the last of any remains. This is the closest that the bible comes to the traditional interpretation of hell. However, in the original language it does not speak of the wicked being sent here, but the corpses of the wicked. It is a symbol of annihilation, not torment. Bodies are described as decaying and being eaten by worms. Its unquenchable flames and smoke going up forever could not literally mean the process of destruction takes forever, as the same terms were used for the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.

The last of those is in one of the most dubious epistles (2 Peter was rejected by several church fathers and today is thought to date from a hundred years after the rest of the bible), is a corruption of the Greek term Tartatus (the place where Zeus imprisoned the Titans who had fought against him), and in many translations is rendered as prison instead of hell. It is presented as a place where demons are kept in chains until the time they are to be judged. The text seems to be referring to the Nepthilim though, the idea that some angels before the Flood sinned by taking mortal wives and having innately evil and powerful giants as children. Jewish folk lore often taught that this angelic ancestry contaminating the gene pool was the actual source of sin, but nothing in the gospels supports this. Christ's response when asked which husband a seven times married woman who have in the resurrection reveals that angels do not marry and strongly implies that they are not capable of any sexual activity so the sins of those in tartatoo were impossible. It is possible that we are reading too much into this though. I suppose that technically though that the angels who sinned could just be human messengers, who were not rescued from (rather flowery described) earthy prisons when the authorities condemned them for their crimes.
 
Soulful said:
Psh. Everything aside, you're not going to rot in hell because you won't have a body. Typically, that's required for rotting. :tongue: I understand your frustration though, especially when people are persistently dogmatic. Personally I do believe many people use religion for good, even though I'm not religious myself; however, it's used as an excuse for ill far, far too often, imo.

Also, I don't normally do this but it really bugs me and boggles my mind that in this day and age people still use male terms to speak for both males and females. I just don't get it. So in response to most of the bolded parts:

1. Humankind.
2. And yes, the bible was written by men but not by man.

And 'crazy' is an interesting concept..
Click to expand...


Sorry about that. I really to try to not focus on gender in most of my posts. It's just this one was sorta in the moment and I really didn't edit it or review it before posting. My bad, I didn't mean no offense.
 
randomsomeone said:
I can surely sympathize with your frame of mind after having those visitors. Religion has many facets, some are as you describe, but some are the exact opposite. I suggest we encourage the good, resist the rest, and not throw all religious thought into one lump.
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Agreed, I do not believe Religion is inherently evil, bad, etc. It just that corrupt people tend to take advantage of those; who in their fear of the unknown of death, look to anybody for answers. If someone can without a doubt promise them an afterlife than they feel better and follow them. So it is ignorance that makes religion dangerous and it is people who do not question it. I will never fault someone who is religious and active in that religion as long as they are rational, meaning that they do not believe that their religion is somehow better than any other religion. There are plenty of people like that out there that are just content to know that they are part of religion and they believe in it and if someone who is not a part of it wants to learn about it than they are willing to share. It should not be something that is forced down someones throat. Overall I do believe that a lot of people in religion are doing it because they believe in what is being sold and are honestly good people but the select few believe it is their right to say others are bad for not following them.
 
Questingpoet said:
Wow Jim, did you read my blog today. I am talking about almost the exact same stuff! Now I see this?! Wow...

http://forums.infjs.com/showthread.php?p=376421#post376421
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Just read some of it. I agree with you on a lot of what you are saying so far from what I have read. I will probably post in there once I get done with all this homework and stuff and acctually have a minute. Might be awhile since I am the type of person who has to go back to the very begining and read everything.
 
Let me first start off by saying that we are all crazy, but we are not all insane.

in
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jimtaylor said:
These are honestly the people who scare me. They are so convinced that the world after this is perfect so they have no care for humanity. The insanity of this is that these people are created within themselves. The interpret the books and teachings in a way wrongly and then become so zealous about it that no amount of logic can convince them otherwise. They are a creation of the corrupt aspects of religion.
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This is why I gave up religion. The books that religions are based off of are so open to interpretation and contradictory that it just made it impossible for me to believe anymore. I'm not saying that everybody should or anything, but misinterpretation is exactly where the danger lies. There is no Biblical support for a physical hell, and the Biblical support for a physical heaven is still being debated.

Pope John Paul II said that heaven is not a place, rather a state of existence:
"Heaven as the fullness of communion with God was the theme of the Holy Father's catechesis at the General Audience of 21 July 1999. Heaven "is neither an abstraction nor a physical place in the clouds, but a living, personal relationship with the Holy Trinity. It is our meeting with the Father which takes place in the risen Christ through the communion of the Holy Spirit"
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Luke 17:20, "The Kingdom of God does not come in such a way as to be seen. No one will say, 'Look, here it is!' or, 'There it is!'; Because the Kingdom of God is WITHIN YOU."

That being said, doing anything for the purpose of "going" to heaven is ridiculous and unsupported.

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However, the Qu'ran does describe a physical heaven with many different levels, the top level being the place where the martyrs go. So, making yourself a martyr for Islam really does become appealing. However, just what exactly makes a martyr in Islam is both very complicated and easily misunderstood (and when it is misunderstood, it can obviously become very dangerous).

Wrap your head around this:
The concept of martyrdom (shahada) in Islam can only be understood in the light of the Islamic concept of Holy Struggle (jihad) and the concept of jihad may only be appreciated if the concept of the doctrine of enjoining right and discovering wrong (al-amr bi'l-maruf) is properly appreciated, and good and bad, right and wrong, can only be understood if the independent divine source of righteousness, truth, and goodness (tawhid), and how the Message of the divine source of righteousness and truth has been honestly and properly conveyed to humanity through prophethood, are understood. Finally the divine message may not be fully appreciated unless the embodiment of this divine message, or the Model of Guidance, and the Supreme Paradigm (imama or uswa) is properly recognized.
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Some of the most aware, generous, and grounded (sane) people I have ever known were religious, and a good many were religious leaders. Their take on the whole thing was very solid. It makes me wonder if many people just want to follow, to be (religiously) entertained, or to be told what to do so they don't have to think too much. People like this (I have met all these types) are easily misled and manipulated.

Living in illusion is what is crazy.
 
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RedOrange823 said:
This is why I gave up religion. The books that religions are based off of are so open to interpretation and contradictory that it just made it impossible for me to believe anymore. I'm not saying that everybody should or anything, but misinterpretation is exactly where the danger lies. There is no Biblical support for a physical hell, and the Biblical support for a physical heaven is still being debated.

Pope John Paul II said that heaven is not a place, rather a state of existence:


Luke 17:20, "The Kingdom of God does not come in such a way as to be seen. No one will say, 'Look, here it is!' or, 'There it is!'; Because the Kingdom of God is WITHIN YOU."

That being said, doing anything for the purpose of "going" to heaven is ridiculous and unsupported.

-----------------------------------

However, the Qu'ran does describe a physical heaven with many different levels, the top level being the place where the martyrs go. So, making yourself a martyr for Islam really does become appealing. However, just what exactly makes a martyr in Islam is both very complicated and easily misunderstood (and when it is misunderstood, it can obviously become very dangerous).

Wrap your head around this:
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Agreed, that is why my entire family gave up on religion and got excommunicated from the church. Honestly it was the best and worst day of my family
 
randomsomeone said:
Some of the most aware, generous, and grounded (sane) people I have ever known were religious, and a good many were religious leaders. Their take on the whole thing was very solid. It makes me wonder if many people just want to follow, to be (religiously) entertained, or to be told what to do so they don't have to think too much. People like this (I have met all these types) are easily misled and manipulated.

Living in illusion is what is crazy.
Click to expand...


I agree. There are many sane, rational, religious people out there but it seems with every one of those, there is one that is equally irrational. Then you have the middle ground of people who follow the religion but don't question it. They might not do anything crazy like be a suicide bomber but they also don't question their religion.
 
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