What is a Happy Marriage? | Page 3 | INFJ Forum

What is a Happy Marriage?

I'm sorry I think this is off. That is totally not true. Especially if someone has had a psychotic mother. I was with someone for 8 years and I treated her like gold, my relationship with my mother is strained, but not because I treat her like shit, but because she is crazy and losing her mind. I refuse to believe that because she is that way I am somehow now only ever going to treat a woman I love like she is crazy and avoid her and find ways to insulate her destructive forces. Some mothers are good people, but not always great mothers. And thank god Dad was there to pull us out of the projects she was living in with us addicted to drugs.

So if I get a little anxious around her and snap at her because she knows how to emotionally manipulate me in a way no one else can, that's probably to be expected, its not as simple as "watch how he treats his mother" that is so black and white.Being around my mother is like an emotional black hole she literally sucks me dry and makes me want to run screaming, i still sit there and take it though because i love her and she is my mother, but to tell women to look at how he treats his mother and use that as the decider into how he is going to be in a relationship, i'm sorry... I disagree. sorry for ruining the fun, as you were.

Nothing is black & white set in stone, but I think more often than not it is true.

Or, if his parents are still together, how his Father treats his Mother.
That was something my Wife payed attention to.
After meeting my parents who at the time had been married 56 years, she felt she could foresee how I would treat her.
She told me this a year or so after we had been married.
 
I'm 59, too. I've been married to my INFJ wife for 34 years and happily so. I agree that it is hard for people to change, but life, by its very nature, forces at least some people to change, particularly if they lead interesting lives full of healthy stress, i.e., they push their limits beyond what is comfortable and easy and try to do good work and be productive.

My wife and I are very different as you would expect of an INTP and INFJ couple. Yet, we've learned to accommodate, complement, and appreciate each other's strengths and weaknesses. What we share strongly, though, are common values, a sense of purpose, and a deep love that motivates us to care for and take care of each other. There is a strong reward in being a team and moving through life together. To us, our marriage is the ultimate comfort.

I think the most important MBTI trait that we share is intuition, on which we both score high.

Our differences provide a diversity of strengths, skills, and abilities to our marriage. Rather than being a problem, our differences solve problems.
 
Thanks to all who had such kind words for me about my post. When you get to be my age (59) you will probably be just as wise or far wiser. I am impressed with the maturity of most people on this forum. I am amazed by some of the posts I've read by 16 and 17 yr. olds who sound 30 in their maturity. Do you think this has to do with the strong N function that enables us to see through the bullcrap at a younger age?

<snip>

1. If you are female and considering marrying someone, take a close look at how he treats his mother and how he talks about her. No matter what he says or how he acts before marriage, once you are married, his imprinted programing about marriage will kick in, and you will be treated exactly like he treats his mother, which will very likely resemble the way his father treats his mother.

Now of course you should make exception if the guy's mom is an axe murderer, or some other type where he has to run the other way to save himself, but if his mom is reasonably normal, this runs true.
<snip>

2. No ladies, you CAN'T change him with your superior love. Maybe your generation has stopped this codependent nonsense, but I doubt it. Please tell me if I am wrong.....I very much want to be wrong on this one.
<snip>

If they do change for you, it will be temporary, and will wear off either when they are mad at you and want to show you who is boss, or when the being "in lust" phase wears off, whichever comes first. <snip>Cold, but true, and one more reason why our society needs to grow up about sex.

So, please don't lie to yourself and say that he'd be perfect for you if only ______ fill in the blank with the horrible, unacceptable trait. Run like hell, cause it ain't gonna change.

klutzo

Wow, I want to comment because somewhere in my heart I feel like there will be a women out there who will read what you wrote and think,"oh, that's just one woman".

I agree with the strong N comment; my BS meter is da*n near flawless and has been for a while.

1. Seriously true especially the disclaimer you put out there about a man having to run to save himself. My hubby had to do that, his mom was 'wrong' in the head for 3 years. Like you said, exceptions, exceptions.

I want to be diplomatic and say that the 'my love with fix him' idea is changing slowly. This is especially true for women my age'ish' I talk with that come from heavily 'religious' families. More progressive women don't believe it logically, but from time-to-time they will stumble in relationships because of it.

I wish every person that was even entertaining the idea of wanting a romantic relationship knew about limerence/new relationship energy/'in lust' and save themselves the heartbreak of getting with someone that is seriously inappropriate for them. So people, that are reading this an do not know about it, please learn. Learn to recognize your particular 'symptoms' and know you are not your normal sane self. I love you all and want you to be happy, but then you already knew that :)
 
Psychotic moms

Billy,
Did you notice earlier in my post where I said none of what I was about to say applied if your mom was an axe murderer or some other toxic type that any sane person would want to get away from? A psychotic mom definitely qualifies and I am sorry you had one. So, we don't really disagree at all. I agree with what you said.

klutzo
 
Hi all,
I'm an old fart compared to most of you and have been married 3 times, so I can tell you from my POV what is not important, even though I thought it was when I was your age and first got married at age 23, and what really IS important, from the POV of what has made my current 25 year long marriage so good. These are just my opinions, so you can take what you want and leave the rest. I am not a romantic. I have what shrinks call an "extreme realist personality type".

Some of this may shock you. It would have shocked me at your age, but maybe you are all a lot more savvy than I was. Having the same political beliefs is not important. Having the same hobbies and free time activities is not important. Looks are only important in that you should not be with someone who has a physical charcteristic that really turns you off. We all end up looking like shriveled, gray old prunes in the end, so if you want it to last, don't make this such a big deal. At your age, sexual compatibility as far as sexual style and frequency is very important, but that will fade to zilch with age and hormones, and other, more mature societies understand these stages of life. Sex is the lowest form of intimacy, not the highest. It is the carrot dangled in front of you to get you to put up with someone long enough to start developing REAL intimacy. Shallow Americans don't get this and try to stay 20 forever. Viva Viagra (not).

IMO, very few people should get married before age 25. Why? The brain of a 20 year old is closer to the brain of a 5 year old than to the brain of a 25 year old! I remember being 20 and thinking I knew everything. By age 30 I realized I didn't know a damn thing. The brain stops changing significantly around age 25. You don't really know who you are before that and are busy finding out by experimenting on other people, with sometimes painful results.

What does matter. Number one is absolutely common values, with lifestyle a close second. If you love family time, it won't work to marry someone who is not close to family. A slob and a neatnik will be at each other constantly. An athiest will not be happy with a believer. An extrovert will not be happy with an introvert. People who think intuition is "woo-woo" will not be happy with an INFJ!

How you handle money is super important. A spendthrift and a tightwad should not waste their time. It will never work. Ditto for someone who wants kids and someone who doesn't. I'm amazed how many people I see not even talking about these things before getting married. Different religions can be problematic, esp. if your parents are rigid. Americans like to pretend we have no economic classes, but it's not true, and it matters, a lot. Unless you are a gold-digger, willing to sell your soul for money, and I would be surprised to find an INFJ who would do that, unless he or she is a sociopath, marrying into a very different economic class from the one you grew up in can cause major problems. Take it from one who found out the hard way. Just try splitting payment of household bills 50/50 when your idea of a needless luxury is his idea of a basic need.

Don't marry someone you can't talk to on your level. This will make you feel lonelier than being single. If you are smart, stick with smart, even if he or she can't be manipulated into doing what you want all the time because of it (grin).

If you are emotional and sensitive, don't try to make up for your vulnerable feelings in this hard, cold world by marrying the opposite type. Again, I speak from experience. You will never feel more alone than when you are crying your eyes out after a sad movie, and he says "it's only a movie for chrissakes, what is the matter with you?" It is far better to have a man who cries along with you. You will feel understood at the deepest level.

Every study ever done shows the more alike you are, the better your chances of staying married. Opposites may attract and be much more exciting when you're young and playing around, but they take way too much energy and cause way too many arguments when you are older and have work, and a house and kids to take care of.

Once you decide you are ready to play for keeps, don't waste any more time on someone, once you know for sure you would not marry that person. Cut your losses and open up that space in your life for the right type to come in. I really wish someone had told me this when I was your age.

I hope I didn't come off like too much of a lecturing parent type. It just makes me sad to see others run out of emotional resilience at a young age like I did. I probably could have summed this up in one sentence. My current marriage has worked for 25 yrs. because I married someone almost exactly like me.

klutzo


Aww klutzo, where were you when I got married?? Thank you!
 
Everything that could go wrong in a marriage has gone wrong in mine. I'm looking for the strength and trying to save up for a divorce. Thank you for all of your posts : )

P.S. My husband is an ESTJ.
 
I would say...none of them. They are all severely depressing to me and just being around married people sort of brings me down.
 
middle1,
You have my empathy. My first husband was an ESTJ. I thought marrying an opposite would help give me strength in my weak areas. That didn't work. It just made me feel far more alone than being single, since I saw my friends a lot more when single.

It took many more years to learn that if I wanted those strengths, I had to try to develop them in myself, and when that proved to be mostly impossible for me, I had to accept that I am who I am, and I have strengths in other areas. Then I had to try to rearrange my life so as to not expose my weaknesses as much, and to be able to utilize my strengths more. I guess this is called knowing yourself.

klutzo
 
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I have yet to see a truly happy marriage that was based on truth and not lies. but I remain hopeful for the future.



Because I wake up ridiculously early I used to help my old
neighbours take care of their lawn on Friday and Saturday
mornings. They had been married for sixty years. They had
gotten married when they were sixteen. They would be out-
side weeding and spraying chemicals hitting each other with
a few sprinkles of water, really enjoying one another's company
even though it was early and hot and we were doing yardwork
they were still happy. And this was just not for show for my
benefit. Before they knew I observed them/before I started
helping them they acted like this with one another. After
having several discussions with them and coming to know them
quite well I would say that they have had a successful, happy,
honest marriage.
 
Yes, they do. Most people are not willing to put in the hard work though. Few marriages survive on love alone.

I would add honest, effective communication and tkis is what I find the most work for me/ Still, it's worth the effort.
 
Hi all,
I'm an old fart compared to most of you and have been married 3 times, so I can tell you from my POV what is not important, even though I thought it was when I was your age and first got married at age 23, and what really IS important, from the POV of what has made my current 25 year long marriage so good. These are just my opinions, so you can take what you want and leave the rest. I am not a romantic. I have what shrinks call an "extreme realist personality type".

Some of this may shock you. It would have shocked me at your age, but maybe you are all a lot more savvy than I was. Having the same political beliefs is not important. Having the same hobbies and free time activities is not important. Looks are only important in that you should not be with someone who has a physical charcteristic that really turns you off. We all end up looking like shriveled, gray old prunes in the end, so if you want it to last, don't make this such a big deal. At your age, sexual compatibility as far as sexual style and frequency is very important, but that will fade to zilch with age and hormones, and other, more mature societies understand these stages of life. Sex is the lowest form of intimacy, not the highest. It is the carrot dangled in front of you to get you to put up with someone long enough to start developing REAL intimacy. Shallow Americans don't get this and try to stay 20 forever. Viva Viagra (not).

IMO, very few people should get married before age 25. Why? The brain of a 20 year old is closer to the brain of a 5 year old than to the brain of a 25 year old! I remember being 20 and thinking I knew everything. By age 30 I realized I didn't know a damn thing. The brain stops changing significantly around age 25. You don't really know who you are before that and are busy finding out by experimenting on other people, with sometimes painful results.

What does matter. Number one is absolutely common values, with lifestyle a close second. If you love family time, it won't work to marry someone who is not close to family. A slob and a neatnik will be at each other constantly. An athiest will not be happy with a believer. An extrovert will not be happy with an introvert. People who think intuition is "woo-woo" will not be happy with an INFJ!

How you handle money is super important. A spendthrift and a tightwad should not waste their time. It will never work. Ditto for someone who wants kids and someone who doesn't. I'm amazed how many people I see not even talking about these things before getting married. Different religions can be problematic, esp. if your parents are rigid. Americans like to pretend we have no economic classes, but it's not true, and it matters, a lot. Unless you are a gold-digger, willing to sell your soul for money, and I would be surprised to find an INFJ who would do that, unless he or she is a sociopath, marrying into a very different economic class from the one you grew up in can cause major problems. Take it from one who found out the hard way. Just try splitting payment of household bills 50/50 when your idea of a needless luxury is his idea of a basic need.

Don't marry someone you can't talk to on your level. This will make you feel lonelier than being single. If you are smart, stick with smart, even if he or she can't be manipulated into doing what you want all the time because of it (grin).

If you are emotional and sensitive, don't try to make up for your vulnerable feelings in this hard, cold world by marrying the opposite type. Again, I speak from experience. You will never feel more alone than when you are crying your eyes out after a sad movie, and he says "it's only a movie for chrissakes, what is the matter with you?" It is far better to have a man who cries along with you. You will feel understood at the deepest level.

Every study ever done shows the more alike you are, the better your chances of staying married. Opposites may attract and be much more exciting when you're young and playing around, but they take way too much energy and cause way too many arguments when you are older and have work, and a house and kids to take care of.

Once you decide you are ready to play for keeps, don't waste any more time on someone, once you know for sure you would not marry that person. Cut your losses and open up that space in your life for the right type to come in. I really wish someone had told me this when I was your age.

I hope I didn't come off like too much of a lecturing parent type. It just makes me sad to see others run out of emotional resilience at a young age like I did. I probably could have summed this up in one sentence. My current marriage has worked for 25 yrs. because I married someone almost exactly like me.

klutzo

This post is a few months old but I thought I'd chime in and thank you for the words of wisdom.

I'm only 20 but I know I am not perfect by virtue of age and I recently got through a "non-long-term" relationship where I learned a lot about what you said, and I can say it feels good knowing that me starting to think twoards your mindset is the right direction to head twoards.

My ex and I had everything in common and we'd thought we'd be perfect with each other and have a lot of good fun too. This was childish of us to assume though, because in the end his character just didn't really care all that much about relationships overall. His values were really childish and he chose to think and handle life completely on a spontanous manner, free from any responsability or commitment. He never thought about himself or other people as a whole and didn't really understand how to do anything except "fun stuff" that benefitted him (which also made it hard for us to do the things we liked to do together). Anyways, I learned the hard way that even if you have every uncommon interest under the sun like I did with him, it doesn't mean that it will work. Because nothing can fix a rotten or simply incompatable character.
 
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We're just crazy about each other and have been for 35 years. Can't explain it, it just is. Maybe it's just a matter of luck. We've gone through hard, stressful times, but our love has endured and we've been very fortunate. A happy couple grows together, reinforces each other, and supports and strengthens each other. As a couple, we are more than twice ourselves.

Where your focus is...there will your heart be also. There is no such thing as a perfect marriage partner, and I believe it would be very nice knowing my mate is looking at the best in me making it possible for us to make it through the stressful times/hard times so we could endure. It is extremely important to remember why we fell in love in the first place....and reminiscing every time we spend alone time together. If you were patient in the beginning
 
Hi all,
I'm an old fart compared to most of you and have been married 3 times, so I can tell you from my POV what is not important, even though I thought it was when I was your age and first got married at age 23, and what really IS important, from the POV of what has made my current 25 year long marriage so good. These are just my opinions, so you can take what you want and leave the rest. I am not a romantic. I have what shrinks call an "extreme realist personality type".

Some of this may shock you. It would have shocked me at your age, but maybe you are all a lot more savvy than I was. Having the same political beliefs is not important. Having the same hobbies and free time activities is not important. Looks are only important in that you should not be with someone who has a physical charcteristic that really turns you off. We all end up looking like shriveled, gray old prunes in the end, so if you want it to last, don't make this such a big deal. At your age, sexual compatibility as far as sexual style and frequency is very important, but that will fade to zilch with age and hormones, and other, more mature societies understand these stages of life. Sex is the lowest form of intimacy, not the highest. It is the carrot dangled in front of you to get you to put up with someone long enough to start developing REAL intimacy. Shallow Americans don't get this and try to stay 20 forever. Viva Viagra (not).

IMO, very few people should get married before age 25. Why? The brain of a 20 year old is closer to the brain of a 5 year old than to the brain of a 25 year old! I remember being 20 and thinking I knew everything. By age 30 I realized I didn't know a damn thing. The brain stops changing significantly around age 25. You don't really know who you are before that and are busy finding out by experimenting on other people, with sometimes painful results.

What does matter. Number one is absolutely common values, with lifestyle a close second. If you love family time, it won't work to marry someone who is not close to family. A slob and a neatnik will be at each other constantly. An athiest will not be happy with a believer. An extrovert will not be happy with an introvert. People who think intuition is "woo-woo" will not be happy with an INFJ!

How you handle money is super important. A spendthrift and a tightwad should not waste their time. It will never work. Ditto for someone who wants kids and someone who doesn't. I'm amazed how many people I see not even talking about these things before getting married. Different religions can be problematic, esp. if your parents are rigid. Americans like to pretend we have no economic classes, but it's not true, and it matters, a lot. Unless you are a gold-digger, willing to sell your soul for money, and I would be surprised to find an INFJ who would do that, unless he or she is a sociopath, marrying into a very different economic class from the one you grew up in can cause major problems. Take it from one who found out the hard way. Just try splitting payment of household bills 50/50 when your idea of a needless luxury is his idea of a basic need.

Don't marry someone you can't talk to on your level. This will make you feel lonelier than being single. If you are smart, stick with smart, even if he or she can't be manipulated into doing what you want all the time because of it (grin).

If you are emotional and sensitive, don't try to make up for your vulnerable feelings in this hard, cold world by marrying the opposite type. Again, I speak from experience. You will never feel more alone than when you are crying your eyes out after a sad movie, and he says "it's only a movie for chrissakes, what is the matter with you?" It is far better to have a man who cries along with you. You will feel understood at the deepest level.

Every study ever done shows the more alike you are, the better your chances of staying married. Opposites may attract and be much more exciting when you're young and playing around, but they take way too much energy and cause way too many arguments when you are older and have work, and a house and kids to take care of.

Once you decide you are ready to play for keeps, don't waste any more time on someone, once you know for sure you would not marry that person. Cut your losses and open up that space in your life for the right type to come in. I really wish someone had told me this when I was your age.

I hope I didn't come off like too much of a lecturing parent type. It just makes me sad to see others run out of emotional resilience at a young age like I did. I probably could have summed this up in one sentence. My current marriage has worked for 25 yrs. because I married someone almost exactly like me.

klutzo

And THIS ^^ for sure before you get started....it will make it much easier in the end. Even if you pick an opposite in the beginning(speaking of personality type)....thats not COMPLETELY opposite you can still find the good points in them.
The only smart thing my mother told me was..."The thing you love about the person the most in the beginning will be what drives you crazy later" Dad-very strong ESTJ mom-very strong ISTP That was a slight toward I/E