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What Drives You?

Discussion in 'Psychology and MBTI' started by NeverAmI, Jan 5, 2010.

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  1. NeverAmI

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    So,

    I look into this constant guilt that I feel, this nagging that I am never good enough, that I am never adequate for others. Sometimes it drives me to constantly evolve myself, sometimes it fills me with despair. Either way, I am never content to simply "be."

    Some say this is inner torment, some say it is inner drive. It is not a passion of mine, I do not feel great pleasure in it, I feel like I must do it to overcome my flaws.

    I thought that IT was a passion, but it is simply something that came easily and I can make money doing.

    When I think about it, I really don't know if I have passions, I have desires to be close with people, but I don't know if I truly have a passion.

    It seems like my whole life is built around gaining acceptance and assisting others, and when I try to look at myself, there is nothing there. When I try to focus on doing something for myself, I either lose interest or it is a way of escaping reality.

    So I wonder:

    • What do you see in yourself?
    • What truly drives you?
    • What makes you interested to see another day?
    • How truly content are you to let injustice happen?
    • Is extreme guilt a virtue or a problem?
    • Without guilt, how do you learn from past mistakes?


    As I type out, and reflect on, the questions, I realize once again that balance is key, but I am interested to hear your responses. Please feel free to answer as many or as few questions as you like.
     
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  2. dneecey

    dneecey I am who I am.

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    This is a really good topic. I would rep you for it but I've used up my rep points for the day. Bummer.. I will be back with a more thought out response....
     
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  3. OP
    NeverAmI

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    Sometimes I wonder, or I fear, that my guilt shouldn't go away.

    I wonder if it is what separates me from others. I am not content to simply move through life. I don't want people to suffer, yes my motivations are caused from selfishness, but it is the only selfishness I have, wanting to be accepted. The truth is, even when people accept me, I don't feel accepted, it is all inner turmoil.

    Is it acceptance that really drives me in the first place?

    If I were happy with myself, what separates me from the "happy consumer" the person that is content with life and loves to go to his job, loves to spend his money, and really is OK with all the stuff happening in the world, content to sit at home and talk to their family.

    I think to myself, do I really want that? Not really, it isn't what makes me content. I think about my guilt, and it IS me!

    People tell me to be myself, I AM being myself. Being a pushover and too nice is who I am. Being that awkward, quiet person that no one has a freaking clue about is who I am. It is how life has shaped me. So do I "fix" it by going to a therapist, or do I stay true to "who I am?" Just because my interests and preferences are different from others, does that make me broken? I suppose to the objective viewer, it is no different from a serial killer in that I just have a different outlook from most people, however, I do not bring harm to others.

    Most times I am driven, sometimes I despair. I am never content without the influence of alcohol or drugs.

    I want to make connections with other people, but it always feels like there is something missing. There have been a few people that I have truly connected with, but it is like that relationship is not sustainable or it is over-idealized. This is a sign that I seek perfection in a relationship, yet another trait of Avoidant Personality Disorder.

    Sometimes I fear that removing my guilt will be like getting a lobotomy, and that I will no longer comprehend that others are in pain.
     
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    #3 NeverAmI, Jan 5, 2010
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  4. bamf

    bamf Is Watching You
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    My chauffeur
     
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  5. Crow

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    You seem to be unable to exist in the present moment,
    except when you write things like this.
    Which might be why you can write things like this.
    You describe a person who is not the person doing the writing.

    You seem self-obsessed: always judging your every thought and action.
    It can be difficult to like yourself.
    This may be because you do things you don't like.
    Stop yourself doing those things, if you find you don't like them.

    That does not mean be "nice".
    It means decide what you feel is acceptable to you and be that.

    Avatars say a lot about us.
    I often notice avatars more than the person they represent.
    What does yours say about you?
     
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  6. Atara

    Atara OneOneOne

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    First I want to say that I'm aching - seeing you hurting like that. :hug: I feel for you and I hope that somehow my words are able to convey that I care. I'm not under the illusion that what I say could change your life in any way, but maybe my sympathy helps and maybe you're able to find a grain of truth for yourself somewhere underneath my words.

    I just talked to a friend of mine on here about the "who am I" question.
    I see you're in pain over the fact that you think that who you are is guilty. And I bet it doesn't help you to know that in one way or another we all are. What makes you suffer is that you KNOW you're guilty. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

    I think what we're looking for is a way for you to not let this guilt rule your life. I'm sure you are a very caring and considerate man (even if you don't like that about yourself, I find it to be very admirable). So do you feel guilty because you feel like that consideration and care root in some egocentric basic need? I can tell you that everything anyone does comes from an internal, 'selfish' need. Imo altruism doesn't exist.

    Considering this aspect, I'm the same way. I am a very friendly person but I am aware of the fact that this is probably because I want to be liked back/treated nicely and because I have an inner strive for harmony. The reason I don't feel guilty because of it, is that it could not be any other way. Our self/consciousness is the fuel to our actions, our sense of self is what drives us. This applies to the pushover as much as it applies to the dare devil or anyone else. That's not necessarily good or bad, but it's - at least I think so - a basic truth you have to come to terms with.

    So maybe my ramblings didn't help you at all but if they did, or if you know the reason why they didn't, please tell me.
     
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  7. Wyst

    Wyst Are you there?

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    • What truly drives you?
      Defintitely the desire for acceptance. If I think I won't be able to get acceptance through in a certain situation, I'll avoid it. Much of this has to do with a perceived lack of acceptance when, in most cases, I've already obtained acceptance.
    • What makes you interested to see another day?
      That's a hard question. I like to see myself progress in different areas. Whether it's weightlifting, guitar, or financial goals etc., if I've got nothing to look forward to, my life seems pretty empty and pointless.
      When I do have nothing to look forward to, I find myself consumed by fantasy. So, books, movies, thinking about what could be (but probably won't come to pass) would be my vice there.
    • How truly content are you to let injustice happen?
      Injustice... I'm in an environment where I don't see a lot of injustice. If it's related to someone I know or am close to I find myself working to right the wrongs I see. Many times though, it's difficult for me to see beyond my own problems (mild though they are) to care enough for others that don't have faces and names in my world.
    • Is extreme guilt a virtue or a problem?
      It's a double-edged sword for me. It's the motivating factor that drives me to improve myself. I see things in me that need to change, especially if the flaws are keeping me from achieving me goals, and the guilt motivates me to begin the process of change in that area.
      It's a problem because when I dwell too much on my problems the guilt will grow to debilatating proportions and incapacitate me from begining the change process. That guilt sounds like, "I'm this way. I can't seem to change. I've never been able to change. I don't think I'll ever be able to change. So I won't try, because, what's the point anyway."
    • Without guilt, how do you learn from past mistakes?
      Sometimes I learn from my mistakes before I feel guilty. When I make a mistake, sometimes I'm angry about the situation and those involved. Later on, guilt will set in, but before it does, I'll usually begin taking steps not to make the same mistake again.
     
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  8. OP
    NeverAmI

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    I can, and do exist, to an extent. Yet, I question what is real and what isn't real. I feel that I am always honest except in extreme circumstance. But I wonder how much of my perception is jaded or rationalized. What is my "real" perception and what is untrue? How does my perception differ compared to others and what are the strengths and weaknesses of each?

    I am incredibly self-centered/focused. I doubt there are many times during the day that I am not analyzing and determining why I think the way I do and why others think the way they do. Perhaps this is my passion.


    I don't feel like I cannot put this face forward, but I feel like there are few that are worth showing it to, or that will actually understand the message. Many simply cannot comprehend or are not comfortable with the depth I enjoy digging into.

    Perhaps my real self is to throw fits like a little child on the floor which is completely unacceptable by most standards, even my own. Or to cry when people are rude.

    Perhaps my real self is to create chaos and to break things that are not socially acceptable, and I feel guilt because I am not living my dream and it would upset and bring shame to my family. Perhaps it is simply that I want variety and spontaneity, even if that means chaos.

    By living within my means and adhering to society's standards, perhaps I feel like I have to adhere to these, and betray my true feelings, for the sake of others.

    These are all hypothetical, FYI.

    I change my avatar often. I enjoy spontaneity and I enjoy diversity. I also enjoy expressing myself. This particular avatar has the mug that my niece gave me as a Christmas present. I was very surprised at how perfect the gift was and I really like the mug. The majority of the people on the forum know that I really enjoy strong coffee, and that face is an exaggerated reaction to my excitement for a strong cup of coffee. I do express myself around my roommate, and I am sure I am loud and obnoxious.

    I am truly an obnoxious person according to most standards and most people do not like it.

    I believe I feel guilt because I default to being a jerk, and I have been raised not to act that way. I reserve myself from hurting others
     
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    #8 NeverAmI, Jan 5, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2010
  9. bamf

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    *starts making a strong pot of fair-trade coffee to share with NAI*
     
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  10. Wyst

    Wyst Are you there?

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    You mean you're making a pot of coffee for 'yourself', right?
     
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  11. OP
    NeverAmI

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    Thank you for the hug. Right now, it is almost like I am not hurting, I am simply objective, it is almost like I see the flaw now, it is in my sights, I want to know how to get rid of it.

    I think the worst part is that I feel that I need to do something for others. I feel like I have to prove myself to everyone else, or that I owe them something.


    I almost wonder if it is the opposite, what if my parents saw I don't care, and they laden me with guilt trips to allow me to function within the confines of society. Whether this is actually true, I don't know. Yet, I do believe I was a warm and sensitive child, so that seems to debunk that myth.

    Sometimes I feel like I could be a cold person, but I find that I am never truly able to be that way. Perhaps I feel guilty that I am not that way.

    Your thoughts help me very much, I really appreciate your input.
     
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  12. OP
    NeverAmI

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    This is great to know, perhaps I can be a decent person even if a therapist can absolve my guilt.
     
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  13. Feelings

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    I see enormous power within myself. Fi drives me. I'm generally somewhat depressed and can't seem to see another perspective except that life is technically meaningless, and that any meaning has been that which has been biologically hardwired into us or otherwise arbitrarily assigned.

    You see, all this guilt, kindness, satisfaction, anything that you feel is merely a product of biological hard-wiring or what we've been conditioned to. It's like we're all stuck in the matrix.
     
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  14. Celsius100

    Celsius100 Community Member

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    • [*]What do you see in yourself?

      I suppose reading this question, what I'm interpreting from it is "What are you aiming for?" I realize that may be completely off the mark, but such is my mind to wander to it's own comfort zone, I suppose. To answer that question, what I see that I aim to uncover from within myself is my potential as a person. In development of both abilities, and personality, I can see that there is a long way to go, which has discouraged me a lot in the past, since what I visualize is still a bit beyond the reach I've developed thus far. However, despite reaching for the moon and falling into a pool below me time and again, I still want to keep reaching until I can say that I've hit that point. If I can reach that, I'll search even farther, to see just to what limits I can attempt.

      [*]What truly drives you?

      Though it may come off as a bit selfish, the desire to reach my dreams. However, I'm also set on doing so along my own path, instead of intentionally taking the same route as those before me. So finding my dreams, and in my own fashion.

      [*]What makes you interested to see another day?

      There are too many things I still want to experience! Things to learn, to feel, to see, and take in. And more importantly, I want to be able to be there for the ones I love. Especially in a time that many loved ones have been taken from my family, I don't want them to have to deal with any grief because of me.

      [*]How truly content are you to let injustice happen?

      It depends on whether it's an injustice by my own feelings on the matter, or an injustice based on a set of rules that were laid down under circumstances that I may or may not agree with. I suppose that's something that's quite self-centric in terms of thought, but it's also something that I'll stand by as an honest statement. Things like the mistreatment of others, verbally, physically, mentally... those I will do whatever I can when I see them to stand in the way of anything carrying on further. However, many laws that we're given, I feel no allegiance to in enforcing them. If it's not a situation that I can find as morally or ethically wrong, I guess I'm just a bit apathetic. It's really only what causes suffering to others that concerns me, I suppose.

      [*]Is extreme guilt a virtue or a problem?

      It depends on what effect of it comes into play. I can say that a sense of extreme guilt has in many instances caused me to help out even in instances where I'd normally be too distant or timid to normally think to do so. However, it has also held me back from a lot of things out of a level of concern for the feelings of others that doesn't actually exist. I think that it has both high and low points, so rather than call it a virtue OR a problem, I'll say that depending on the situation, it can be many things.

      [*]Without guilt, how do you learn from past mistakes?

    To be fair... I learn from my mistakes almost exclusively from the guilt I pile onto myself. That said, I'm so used to that, that I suppose I haven't put much thought into how else I would. I guess I could say though that constructive criticism has also helped out a lot, it simply is overshadowed by exactly how much I guilt myself.
     
  15. OP
    NeverAmI

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    It makes sense in a way, but consciousness and self-awareness is still confusing to me.


    Celcius100, that was very insightful, I appreciate you sharing very much. I agree very much with your interpretation of inner guilt.
     
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    #15 NeverAmI, Jan 5, 2010
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  16. Atara

    Atara OneOneOne

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    Uhoh, seems like I was pretty off there. *hangs head in shame"

    Thanks for explaining that to me, I think I understand what you're saying a little better now. But I need to ponder on it...
     
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  17. OP
    NeverAmI

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    No, no. Please do not feel bad, it is through your questions and interpretations that I find answers. I appreciate it very much! It is a perspective of myself that is different from what I view, and just because they are different does not mean mine is right.

    I simply presented my perspective.

    I think you may be right, in that I want to do unto others as I would like done unto me. When someone asks me to do something or for help, I am short sighted, and I only see that I would like them to provide the same help for me if I asked, so I do it.

    However, I was unable to see that some people wish to manipulate me or to take advantage. This all boils back to the solution of social anxiety/avoidant personality, which is recognizing that not all people are trustworthy.

    I avoid people perhaps because I cannot tell who is trustworthy and who is not. Perhaps if I can learn to distinguish the two, then I can be less afraid.

    If you saw me in my work environment, you wouldn't have guessed I would type something like this. If you saw me when I am by myself and alone, you may just see it.

    Assertiveness is key. It is already something I have been working on. I just have to get better at it. I will definitely make mistakes while I try to find boundaries and I find out the right and wrong circumstances.
     
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  18. Crow

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    I can be incredibly naieve.
    But it is not really naievety.
    More a bulletproof optimism that is prone to distort what is,
    and turn it into merely the way I choose to see it.

    I know people are not trustworthy.
    Still I trust people.
     
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  19. Atara

    Atara OneOneOne

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    You're right, different perspectives can be helpful.

    Sometimes that's a good thing. It's all a matter of balancing it out, I guess.

    It would probably help, yes.

    My take on it is that the question to 'who you really are' might not make sense since I believe that a personality is under constant change due to external and internal forces. However, if you do not feel comfortable with the person you are in certain situations, e.g. at work or where ever, your problem still applies. Shoot.

    Well, I can only encourage you to stay on track and wish you luck.

    And an extra big hug just because:
    :hug:
     
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  20. Agnus

    Agnus Community Member

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    Guilt can not separate you from others, it makes you even more attached to people, because guilt is somekind of hurted feeling which is not moving and even transformates to that feeling " guilt" which makes you even more attached to your past, and when past is hurted, you are making future beliefs, which can be various: full of fear, full of dellusions, not real expectations.
    Your motivation isn't selfishness, because if you want acceptance, that means you want to give yourself to someone.
    The thing which separates you from "happy consumer" is YOU. you are unique, you have your past, your presence (but you can not see it clearly yet), your own reasons, you are human full of hurted feelings, that means, there was time when the most sensitive feelings were open, someone scared you because of stupidity of them.
    You are not your guilt, you are a person who holds the guilt into himself.
    Yes! that is right, some people with their stupidity can make us angry, they don't see how beautiful you can be with your own qualities. And that is not your fault. it is them, who doesn't see.
    Not life is shaping you, you are your life.
    You don't need to fix anything in you, you need to understand from where comes your calmness and accept it.
    Your differences doesn't make you broken, it makes you unique. Just the most open part of yours is hurted. And you afraid to see it.
    Seeking of perfection in relations isn't disease. The thing which should be healed is your love. you have it somewhere deep deep in you, but it hurts too much that you could find it.
    Guilt doesn't make you alive, guilt is that what makes you afraid, and fear is coming from doubt. guilt doesn't let you to see other people pain. You feel that because you want to find similarities with someone, that you could share yourself.
     
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