What do you think of SJ types?
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ISTJs
Dependable. Reliable. Fiercely loyal. Social climbers. Snobs. Smart. Imaginative. Uptight. Conventional. Moral. Practical. Unromantic. Can poor cold water all over my ideas. Often come to the same conclusions like I do but go about in a completely wrong and impossible way to comprehend. Great critics. Have a sense of superiority. A bit plodding in nature. Hard liners. Softies if you find their Achilles heel. Anal retentive. Lovers of hierarchy and authoritarians. (oh I hate this!).
Plodding in nature seems to contradict imaginative but it doesn't. It's just difficult to explain how they are imaginative. It's so different from my approach.
Closest girlfriend is an istj so is my father. We get along well mostly but often we look at each other with that "Something's not quite right with you" look. Eventually, we annoy each other and have to part for awhile.
Dependable. Reliable. Fiercely loyal. Social climbers. Snobs. Smart. Imaginative. Uptight. Conventional. Moral. Practical. Unromantic. Can poor cold water all over my ideas. Often come to the same conclusions like I do but go about in a completely wrong and impossible way to comprehend. Great critics. Have a sense of superiority. A bit plodding in nature. Hard liners. Softies if you find their Achilles heel. Anal retentive. Lovers of hierarchy and authoritarians. (oh I hate this!).
Plodding in nature seems to contradict imaginative but it doesn't. It's just difficult to explain how they are imaginative. It's so different from my approach.
Closest girlfriend is an istj so is my father. We get along well mostly but often we look at each other with that "Something's not quite right with you" look. Eventually, we annoy each other and have to part for awhile.
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SJ types include ESTJ, ISTJ, ESFJ, ISFJ. All four types couldn't be any more different and I wouldn't really put them in the same basket.
ISFJs and ISTJs are similar in temperament, but not necessarily otherwise. ISFJs are much closer to INFJs; these two types are virtually the same, except INFJs tend to plan more vigorously, ignoring any sense of practicality, while ISFJs prefer to stay realistic.
ESTJs and ESFJs, again, are similar in temperament, but tend to have entirely different focus. One is led by Te and the other by Fe.
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What do I think of the types? They're cool but unfortunately heavily stereotyped as boring, unoriginal, etc. which is not true.
ISFJs and ISTJs are similar in temperament, but not necessarily otherwise. ISFJs are much closer to INFJs; these two types are virtually the same, except INFJs tend to plan more vigorously, ignoring any sense of practicality, while ISFJs prefer to stay realistic.
ESTJs and ESFJs, again, are similar in temperament, but tend to have entirely different focus. One is led by Te and the other by Fe.
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What do I think of the types? They're cool but unfortunately heavily stereotyped as boring, unoriginal, etc. which is not true.
I agree that ESXJ's and ISXJ's are very, very different and shouldn't be put in the same category. SJ's on the whole are quite misunderstood because of Si. I have been learning more about Si and they make more sense to me now- still don't agree with them 80% of the time but at least I respect them a bit more. Other then that, it's hard to generalise about 4 types altogether.
Ha, what? I'm really surprised you would say that. The difference between ISFJ's and INFJ's are that one is realistic and other "plans" more? What are you smoking?
That's a bit naive. There is a lot more to it then that. Saying "they're good for the world" is like saying the; "it's good that the sky is blue". It's neither good nor bad, it just is. If you read just a little into Jung's own work you'll discover that he talks a lot about the world as a big psyche and how wars and global shifts in economy, politics etc are akin to archetypal pulls in the individual psyche. If you look at type demographics, it's not hard to deduce that the world is highly one sided and lacks balance and individuation- pretty much the cause of why the world is so fucked up. THAT is not a good thing.
Ha, what? I'm really surprised you would say that. The difference between ISFJ's and INFJ's are that one is realistic and other "plans" more? What are you smoking?
That's a bit naive. There is a lot more to it then that. Saying "they're good for the world" is like saying the; "it's good that the sky is blue". It's neither good nor bad, it just is. If you read just a little into Jung's own work you'll discover that he talks a lot about the world as a big psyche and how wars and global shifts in economy, politics etc are akin to archetypal pulls in the individual psyche. If you look at type demographics, it's not hard to deduce that the world is highly one sided and lacks balance and individuation- pretty much the cause of why the world is so fucked up. THAT is not a good thing.
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That's one aspect of it. Of course, the definitional difference is that one leads with Ni and the other with Si, but in practice (largely the reason why I am interested in typology at all), it is one of the major differences between the two types. Although when I say "plan", I don't mean plan in the traditional sense of the word, but a general inference towards forming an image of future occurrences based on prior experience.
What have you learned about Si that made you respect it more? I need to know because I have trouble dealing with SJ's and their Si, it just makes no sense. It completely clashes with Ni, from what I understand.
*ghost voice* If you had any Ni... *ghost voice*
Sorry, I'll leave now.
*exits thread*
SJ in general: Very 'you're with us or against us'.
Not always traditional / conservative, but very rigid in their conviction.
Loyal and proper. Probably will not stray too far in duties, but in personal life...no idea.
Often realistic, to the point of pragmatism.
Not always traditional / conservative, but very rigid in their conviction.
Loyal and proper. Probably will not stray too far in duties, but in personal life...no idea.
Often realistic, to the point of pragmatism.
Can also be said of an ESxJ type as well. My wife is one while I'm an NJ type. The two of us are cleaning the house together today and I feel like physically shoving her out of the way so I can just "get it done" already! I know it will be clean (and very well organized) by the time she gets it done but I could care less about all those fine details like alphabetizing magazines.
The main reason I don't like SJs, is they are always putting stupid kinks in my plan, or snitching to the boss, etc. etc. etc. STJs I particularly do not like, though a few of my good friends are ISTJs. I can deal with STJs, but only if they are older and more developed in their past functions, teenage years and early 20s XSTJs drive me bonkers.
SJ relative
My cousin is an ESFJ. She thought I was too dreamy-book smart but no common sense when we were growing up. SJ's are determined to accomplish their goals, loyal, observant and orderly. She and I now get along better.
Heck, I was probably the only introverted sister of my parents' 5 daughters!
My cousin is an ESFJ. She thought I was too dreamy-book smart but no common sense when we were growing up. SJ's are determined to accomplish their goals, loyal, observant and orderly. She and I now get along better.
Heck, I was probably the only introverted sister of my parents' 5 daughters!
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It does. But generally SJs are grounded and can make good friends when you think too much. There's a general tendency to be unimaginative but I think they're good friends overall. I don't like the hate others give them, which is probably because they're also an SJ or just have experience with the wrong kind. I'm unsure.
I generally like SFJs. I generally dislike STJs. That said, there are notable exceptions. A few SFJs are on my permanent shit list, and I have a few STJs I wouldn't trade for their weight in gold.
I get along well with most SFJs because we share Fe/Ti. However, the Si inability to see outside the box is often an issue until they can develop some Ne. Otherwise, they're unable to keep up with or respect my perspective, and when people get bent out of shape with me for being myself, they end up fired from my life in a hurry.
There are very few STJs I've been able to have long term relationships with, as they almost always manage to misinterpret something I say or do, then get pissy about it, and all of a sudden the tolerance between us is gone. Granted, I have had to learn that they aren't inherently ill intended stuffy self absorbed pricks... and that has helped me tolerate them. But, if an STJ has a well developed Ne and Fi, we often are able to get along very well, especially if we limit our contact to small doses.
I get along well with most SFJs because we share Fe/Ti. However, the Si inability to see outside the box is often an issue until they can develop some Ne. Otherwise, they're unable to keep up with or respect my perspective, and when people get bent out of shape with me for being myself, they end up fired from my life in a hurry.
There are very few STJs I've been able to have long term relationships with, as they almost always manage to misinterpret something I say or do, then get pissy about it, and all of a sudden the tolerance between us is gone. Granted, I have had to learn that they aren't inherently ill intended stuffy self absorbed pricks... and that has helped me tolerate them. But, if an STJ has a well developed Ne and Fi, we often are able to get along very well, especially if we limit our contact to small doses.