I agree with the 'logic' or 'flow' of Fi vs Fe that you have mentioned, but I fail to see how it invalidates what I've said. One point of contention I have is that while Fe may work that way, in and of itself, the combination of other functions does not allow it to always work that way. Also, the behaviours that you have have described I have seen more commonly in ENFPs and ExFJs than in INFPs and IxFJs.
Ultimate Difference Between INFP and INFJ
- Thread starter wonkavision
- Start date
I agree with the 'logic' or 'flow' of Fi vs Fe that you have mentioned, but I fail to see how it invalidates what I've said. One point of contention I have is that while Fe may work that way, in and of itself, the combination of other functions does not allow it to always work that way. Also, the behaviours that you have have described I have seen more commonly in ENFPs and ExFJs than in INFPs and IxFJs.
If you agree with me that Fi can assign priority of value, and Fe can't. Then how can INFJs assign value differently?
I agree that I just made a huge oversimplification with that question, but it highlights what I'm saying. If you agree with what I said, and don't see how it invalidates what you said, then we are probably arguing two entirely different things and not realizing it. In which case I apologize.
I can give a clearer example later on, but I need to go shovel some snow while there is still daylight.
I think it is time now for Wonkavision to let us know what his immediate circle thinks. After all, we don't know him from Adam. They, do. I am particularly interested to hear what his wife and immediate family members believe about him. My wife KNOWS I am a five. All my kids realize this, too. I often FEEL like a four, but only when I am alone. When I am with others I am so fivish as to be unmistakable. I think it is time for Wonkavision to allow us to take the votes of his inner circle into account.
Well, I'd like to hear some more theories about me being a Sensor first.
Also, I'd like to post a "Type Me" video first.
[MENTION=6017]wonkavision[/MENTION]
Maybe you'd benefit from looking at your early years, since adults tend to be pretty balanced and thus harder to read.
Before age 20 is generally when you're most focused on your Dominant and Auxiliary.
During your 20s is when the Inferior is unleashed, sometimes with catastrophic results. You might make a lot of unwise career and/or relationship decisions because of it. You also develop Tertiary here.
After age 30 is when you start integrating Tertiary and Inferior more holistically.
What were you like at age 10?
Yeah, I've thought about this a lot. I relate to descritions of both INFJs and INFPs as children, but maybe slightly more toward INFP.
The description of INFP children in Nurture by Nature really resonated with me. And i havent read the INFJ one yet, but I intend to.
I liked the links provided by Radiant Shadow in the first response to your query. I read through them fairly carefully. For the INFP there is a lot of work regarding Kierkegaard and others as INFP and INTP (Hegel, and others) but no philosophers listed for INFJ. Some give Kant to that category. As I teach philosophy, this was helpful to me but most don't know philosophy well enough for this to be much of a guideline. Hegel is unusual in that he provides almost no pictures, just pure ideation. Kierkegaard provides marvelous allegories quite often that reach into all kinds of corners. Kant is my favorite. He actually makes sense a lot of the time and is useful to me in terms of actual thinking in the everyday world, but he is almost impossible to read. You have to study him forever.
An INFP child can be difficult to type because although many would say Fi makes it difficult to adapt to outside requirements or expectations, a child may try to fit the personality type of the adults they are around, and may try to mold themselves to fit that type. They may not really develop a clear sense of self until they get older.
I think this thread was pretty helpful.
I'm probably INFP. It seems like Fi is my dominant function, and I really don't think I'm a "J."
I guess I can always change my mind later. For now, I'm gonna go with INFP.
Thanks for the input, you guys.
P.S. I'm still working on the "Type Me" video.
I'm probably INFP. It seems like Fi is my dominant function, and I really don't think I'm a "J."
I guess I can always change my mind later. For now, I'm gonna go with INFP.
Thanks for the input, you guys.
P.S. I'm still working on the "Type Me" video.
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You didn't say why you arrived at this type. I would like to know what details swayed you. Also, I am still hoping you will tell us what your friends and family have to say about you. What is a "Type Me" video? Are there standard things you put into one?
Well, I kind of lied about this thread being helpful. I was being charitable and trying to see the best in it.
And I don't like all the attention, especially the negative kind, so I just kind of want it to end.
The bottom line is, there's really no concensus in this thread or on any other forum, or among my family and friends. It's all over the place.
I guess looking at the functions again kind of swayed me. Cedar's post was pretty helpful in that sense.
I would love to have some objective, outside confirmation, but it looks like Im just gonna have to go with my gut on this. I'm INFP, until further notice.
A "Type Me" video is just a video people make so people can watch it and make guesses about their type. There are often forum threads devoted to this kind of thing.
It mostly invites lots of useless speculation but it has the potential to yield some helpful insights.
There's no standard way of doing it. Some people answer a questionairre and some people just improvise.
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Right, this was all over the place. But I find even with the professionals that the types are all over the place. I started off trying to figure out the enneagram number. I talked with various top people in the profession. I was declared an absolute and certifiable four by Clarence Thomsen, who has two books on the topic. Mary Bast thought that I was a nine. She has a book, and a big practice. Elizabeth Wagele said I was beyond doubt a five. Michael Goldberg didn't hazard a guess. He told me confidentially that he had changed his number several times over the years. At the Enneagram Monthly, the editor there told me he himself wasn't sure of his number after twenty years. And he said the truth is when you get to know people inside the business, they are all unsure of their numbers, and they are all second-guessing each others' numbers as well, thinking that even Claudio Naranjo's typings weren't clear. Judith Searle's book on Literary Enneagram is widely critiqued from the inside. Was Kafka a five or a four? Was Bob Dylan a five or a four? The numbers even inside the books are all over the place. For you, not so famous although we do have a good photograph, I have no idea how or where anybody would get a clean grasp of your character. I personally think character is something that is most clear when you are at your absolute worst. A metaphor would be that at high tide all bays look the same -- like smooth sailing. It's at low tide when the reefs are most apparent that you can see what someone really is. But then people say, no no, that just shows the direction of disintegration. Or in MBTI terms that would be the opposite when you swing to your opposite and are "in the clutch" as Naomi Quenk phrases it. The numbers, the tests, the guesswork is all rather apparent. There is no objectivity to anything as subjective as personality typing. When is a person most likely to be their type? When they are about to be shot in a mugging? When they are snuggling a loved one in bed behind a triple-locked door with Fox News playing in another room so loud you can hear Bill O'Reilly saying, "We're watching out for you." The truth is that no one really knows. Based on a phone conversation and the fact that he was mad at me (I had challenged one of his typings on a board -- one famous enneagram researcher -- David Fauvre -- said I had to be a six because I was persecuting him!).
I don't necessarily think that typing is a bad game, but it's certainly often a case of the blind leading the blind.
If a certain number helps you function better that is if you think you're an INFP and it helps you get down the road to think like that, maybe that's where we should go with it. It's not clear to me that the typology systems of our day are better than the phrenology that was the rage in Whitman's day. He had himself typed and it helped him write his poems (it gave him a sense of what he could be about). He apparently kept the type in his wallet, and used it to understand himself.
It's a very appealing thing to be able to understand character. But it's not something tangible even like a bump on the head. Anyone who thinks that their type is based on the bumps in their head probably deserves a bump on the head.
Still thank you for the honesty of your having gone through the process. Have a nice day, sir.
I don't necessarily think that typing is a bad game, but it's certainly often a case of the blind leading the blind.
If a certain number helps you function better that is if you think you're an INFP and it helps you get down the road to think like that, maybe that's where we should go with it. It's not clear to me that the typology systems of our day are better than the phrenology that was the rage in Whitman's day. He had himself typed and it helped him write his poems (it gave him a sense of what he could be about). He apparently kept the type in his wallet, and used it to understand himself.
It's a very appealing thing to be able to understand character. But it's not something tangible even like a bump on the head. Anyone who thinks that their type is based on the bumps in their head probably deserves a bump on the head.
Still thank you for the honesty of your having gone through the process. Have a nice day, sir.
Yeah. This is why I don't want to fork out 200 or 300 dollars for an official test.
I suspect that it won't be any more reliable than a self-test.
I want to know what my type is, but not enough to pay that much.
MBTI is based on one authoritative source. The myriad of other information out there is based on other people's interpretations, not the organization's. I cannot comment on Enneagrams, I know nothing about it.
I am not suggesting that you should go and see a professional. I am merely stating that there is a standard way.
I am willing to help you explore the functions. I did try, but I feel that my comments were missed or ignored.
I am not suggesting that you should go and see a professional. I am merely stating that there is a standard way.
I am willing to help you explore the functions. I did try, but I feel that my comments were missed or ignored.
Not sure if you're talking to me or someone else, but maybe I did miss your comments.
I'm gonna go back and check.
I think I was. And a little bit [MENTION=4235]problemz[/MENTION]
Here is one post though it was in part in response to other comments, but still relevant I think:
http://www.infjs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23470&page=3&p=654280&viewfull=1#post654280
In the post below it, I gave 3 examples of INFP vs INFJ. I tried to reduce them down as simply as I could. Or rather reduce down certain aspects.
Well, as I stated in the OP, I was looking for a short, pithy statement (two sentences or less) about what you think is the ULTIMATE difference between INFJs and INFPs. I've already done tons of research and speculation and analysis, and I'm caught between the two. I was looking for something to push me over to one side or the other.
I wasn't looking for walls of text and/or complex analysis or debates. That's why I ignored your posts.
I appreciate the effort, but it would have been much more helpful if you and others tried to follow the guidelines in the OP.
Wow. I'm not sure where that came from. And I thought I was being dickish earlier this morning.
Good luck in your search. I won't bother you any more.
I don't think Wonkavision came out so strongly. I really liked the intervention. I need something colorful and vivid. I haven't found it yet. But at the beginning of this thread in the second comment was a wonderful link to philosophy for INFPS and INFJS. I like philosophy a lot. I wish more personality typing was read through it.