[ENTJ] The Perfect Man

[grt$5vb]

HAHAHAHA....No.

However, an individual does not define their gender. You know this. There are good men here. The men in this thread are good men. Are there predators here? Yes. Should women be more discerning about where and why they are picking up men? Definitely. Bars and clubs? No thank you.

 

[noisebloom]

Are there predators here? Yes.

 

[ZcM4xzkjgzCjytBc]

Well, men.

Do you have a lot of positive experiences with men that inform the picture you have?

Are women telling you men suck? Why are they doing that? How many women aren't telling you men suck? Why are you carrying this weird belief?

 

[Pin]

Are women telling you men suck?

Yes.

Why are they doing that?

I think it's a mix of bad experiences and where our culture is at now. More and more people are just vocal about men's failures.

How many women aren't telling you men suck?

More than 4, I don't have a precise number but it's a normal sentiment from what I understand.

Why are you carrying this weird belief?

Well, I don't believe that men suck. I believe that most men are pretty decent actually. It's just our system and culture that reinforces certain behaviors.

 

[noisebloom]

i miss voice chatting with @Pin

 

[Misty]

I need 1,000 yrs of therapy and then I'll be able to respond in here. Sorry we'll all be bones by then, but at least know that I really wanted to.

 

[noisebloom]

if you think men are bad you're buying into the mainstream media's hoaxes

 

[Misty]

if you think men are bad you're buying into the mainstream media's hoaxes

 

[ZcM4xzkjgzCjytBc]

if you think men are bad you're buying into the mainstream media's hoaxes

 

[Misty]

Exactly

 

[Rift Zone]

The poll has one spin.

Then it gets into some deep human condition stuff.

Then this:

This question is largely oriented to anyone who cares about men or is romantically interested in men.

I'm so confused.

I feel like this is the kind of thread where I said too much in the OP. I talked about dead guys, my past dates, and I told the audience to go away in the first paragraph...

Heavy stuff.

So not helping.


The value of a person is not determined by the gifts they’ve been given, it’s what they do with their gifts that counts. It’s what you leave in your wake. If where you’ve been has been graced by your presence because you’ve left nothing but beauty, wisdom, joy, intrigue, and empowerment behind you then you have a beautiful soul (loosely defined by this paragraph) and your value as a person is uncontested. Leaving misery, fear, pain, destruction, subjugation or any manner of diminished behind is ridiculous, reprehensible, and a betrayal of what you are and have been given. Our value is determined by how we treat everything around us: humanity, other creatures, the ecosystems that sustain us.

 

[Ginny]

A lot of women are subjected to harassment and objectified. In the US it might even be more overtly palpable than in other countried where there are laws against that kind of thing. And this is just talking about the workplace. The work of women is made harder just for the need of proving they are competent although they might be even more comptetent than a man with the same job.

Consider now how many more women are mistreated in society (and politics), which carries on the misogynistic view. So long as women are shut up and excluded for being honest about this, it won't be going anywhere.
It takes both the work of men and women to change that. Because it's not just men who perpetuate that way of thinking.

Men in particular... not much has changed in the last 130 years since women wore gigantic hatpins to defend themselves from men's unwanted advances in their everyday life. What did men do? They moved to ban hatpins.

Women are getting barred from debate in the senate for using the word "vagina." Because it upset them so much to be confronted with female sexuality. And this in a day and age when even the President is using much less appropriate language.

Why are men so bad though, suppressing female sexuality, forcing them to adopt the misogynistic view in order to perpetuate the oppression that is still ongoing? Why are men so bad when women are afraid to be killed for not reciprocating their feelings?

It takes knowing that, knowing both genders' failures and shortcomings, to advance to a place where the differences between genders disappear from the social realm. The topic is still much bigger than it needs to be, because it just is still that important of a topic. A woman that knows about the inequality and is subjected to the oppression on a daily basis has the right to say she hates men, even if she is looking for a man that can let her hope.

Now to your particular case. What did the women have in common (besides dating you), that they have made such comments. Certain types of women are more likely to be subjected to sexual harassment than others, because it's easier to objectify them when they fit a certain beauty ideal.

I probably have more to write another time, but I think this is enough to digest for now.

 

[Pin]

Now to your particular case. What did the women have in common (besides dating you), that they have made such comments.

Bad experiences with men at the individual level, verbal abuse to physical abuse.

 

[Rift Zone]

@Ginny, that's encultureation; those nuances are embedded in the way society operates.
Meh. I suspect "human is synergy of male and female energy" and "we are inherently less operating independent of the influence of the other" will become more popular concepts in the near future.

 

[Misty]

A lot of women are subjected to harassment and objectified. In the US it might even be more overtly palpable than in other countried where there are laws against that kind of thing. And this is just talking about the workplace. The work of women is made harder just for the need of proving they are competent although they might be even more comptetent than a man with the same job.

Consider now how many more women are mistreated in society (and politics), which carries on the misogynistic view. So long as women are shut up and excluded for being honest about this, it won't be going anywhere.
It takes both the work of men and women to change that. Because it's not just men who perpetuate that way of thinking.

Men in particular... not much has changed in the last 130 years since women wore gigantic hatpins to defend themselves from men's unwanted advances in their everyday life. What did men do? They moved to ban hatpins.

Women are getting barred from debate in the senate for using the word "vagina." Because it upset them so much to be confronted with female sexuality. And this in a day and age when even the President is using much less appropriate language.

Why are men so bad though, suppressing female sexuality, forcing them to adopt the misogynistic view in order to perpetuate the oppression that is still ongoing? Why are men so bad when women are afraid to be killed for not reciprocating their feelings?

It takes knowing that, knowing both genders' failures and shortcomings, to advance to a place where the differences between genders disappear from the social realm. The topic is still much bigger than it needs to be, because it just is still that important of a topic. A woman that knows about the inequality and is subjected to the oppression on a daily basis has the right to say she hates men, even if she is looking for a man that can let her hope.

Now to your particular case. What did the women have in common (besides dating you), that they have made such comments. Certain types of women are more likely to be subjected to sexual harassment than others, because it's easier to objectify them when they fit a certain beauty ideal.

I probably have more to write another time, but I think this is enough to digest for now.

This^.

Ok, now that you've begun. I guess I'll copy this from my own blog and add it here because it's indeed relevant, and not just from a traumatized person's point of view.. but from a vast majority of women.

I truly don't believe they are all bad or evil.. even after having dealt with the most evil of men.

I still have hope..

But I think that the main issue most women, like myself have lays in the lack of faith in men's faithfulness. It seems to be the one Achilles heel that is universal for some men, and the knowledge that even when these type of men are trying to remain faithful, they still are looking and thinking about being unfaithful.. so then it's all the same anyway. It's no better.

These types are fantastic liars & manipulators. So women are then worried.. Is this guy decent or one of those..

 

[Ginny]

@Ginny, that's encultureation; those nuances are embedded in the way society operates.
Meh. I suspect "human is synergy of male and female energy" and "we are inherently less operating independent of the influence of the other" will become more popular concepts in the near future.

A perfect example of what shouldn't be done. Labeling is a normalising process, and this shouldn't be normal.

Even if you attempted to agree with me, the way you worded it right here merely underlines my point. So thank you.

 

[Misty]

A lot of women are subjected to harassment and objectified. In the US it might even be more overtly palpable than in other countried where there are laws against that kind of thing. And this is just talking about the workplace. The work of women is made harder just for the need of proving they are competent although they might be even more comptetent than a man with the same job.

Consider now how many more women are mistreated in society (and politics), which carries on the misogynistic view. So long as women are shut up and excluded for being honest about this, it won't be going anywhere.
It takes both the work of men and women to change that. Because it's not just men who perpetuate that way of thinking.

Men in particular... not much has changed in the last 130 years since women wore gigantic hatpins to defend themselves from men's unwanted advances in their everyday life. What did men do? They moved to ban hatpins.

Women are getting barred from debate in the senate for using the word "vagina." Because it upset them so much to be confronted with female sexuality. And this in a day and age when even the President is using much less appropriate language.

Why are men so bad though, suppressing female sexuality, forcing them to adopt the misogynistic view in order to perpetuate the oppression that is still ongoing? Why are men so bad when women are afraid to be killed for not reciprocating their feelings?

It takes knowing that, knowing both genders' failures and shortcomings, to advance to a place where the differences between genders disappear from the social realm. The topic is still much bigger than it needs to be, because it just is still that important of a topic. A woman that knows about the inequality and is subjected to the oppression on a daily basis has the right to say she hates men, even if she is looking for a man that can let her hope.

Now to your particular case. What did the women have in common (besides dating you), that they have made such comments. Certain types of women are more likely to be subjected to sexual harassment than others, because it's easier to objectify them when they fit a certain beauty ideal.

I probably have more to write another time, but I think this is enough to digest for now.

It's also hard not to see darkness in men when you have been peered at and or creeped on by adult men starting from the age of 12 or 13. It doesn't help that we are then afraid to walk alone at night and many of us have endured sexual abuse.

It makes distinguishing bad guys from good guys very arduous.

 

[Rift Zone]

A perfect example of what shouldn't be done. Labeling is a normalising process, and this shouldn't be normal.

Even if you attempted to agree with me, the way you worded it right here merely underlines my point. So thank you.

There's that T/F split. Have to disagree. It's identification. We can't deal with nebulous concepts and issues to well. But we can certainly deal with things we understand.

 

[grt$5vb]

It's also hard not to see darkness in men when you have been peered at and or creeped on by adult men starting from the age of 12 or 13. It doesn't help that we are then afraid to walk alone at night and many of us have endured sexual abuse.

It makes distinguishing bad guys from good guys very arduous.

See, I feel that way, too... scared. I don't go on dates with men alone. I think that's smart, but I also realize I am biased by my traumas. I am hypervigilant and paranoid that everyone is a rapist. That's not the case.

 

[Ginny]

Bad experiences with men at the individual level, verbal abuse to physical abuse.

It's likely that those women in particular were not ready to open up to someone. It takes months to trust a single person after being abused, maybe longer.

Women are being taught from earliest childhood that their whole purpose in life is to catch themselves a man and get married. That's the only way a woman could survive in society. Nowadays, things are changing, the pushback is harder, on both sides.
But still, women force each other for the sake of societal norms into the "dating game" as soon as they are without a man.

It's not something that was wrong with either you or the women you dated, @Pin. Wounds need time to heal, and people need to be shown that things can be different from what they used to be without making anyone feel bad about who they are and what happened to them. It's an investment in your feelings to take the step in that direction.