The Meaning of Life | Page 6 | INFJ Forum

The Meaning of Life

[MENTION=9809]La Sagna[/MENTION]
Yes. Self induced poverty is not the same as externally induced poverty.

If you don't want to give up stuff, then don't do it. It's your call. Nobody can force you, and if you're not voluntary about it you may as well not do it at all.

Nobody should demand that you throw away your life. Do as you will. Just keep in mind that excessive attachment to materials will destroy you as well as others. Just keep in mind that you do reap what you sow.

Some times it's direct. Other times it must propagate, just like when a king makes bad law which causes the people to be miserable, it doesn't hurt him right away but it ruins his country. It ruins the extension of himself, and even if the people don't manage to revolt and chop off his head, he still has to work with a damaged country. It will still harm his interests, and in some way he will always manage to make himself more miserable.
 
Are you trolling me? Cause if you are, then you got me. I admit it.
I'm not going to give you the answer. If you really want to know, do more research and discover it for yourself.

It won't mean anything if I just tell you.
 
My mother's cousin is a Jesuit priest and has been serving in Brazil for over 40 years. He is a university professor there. The Jesuits do take a vow of poverty, which means living modestly but they do not lack any of the necessities of life. It is different than the type of poverty where people lack shelter, food or proper clothing.

Police swear an oath to serve and protect and then taze and beat the shit out of people over trivial things

Vows are only as good as the person making the vow

The jesuits were set up to be a militant order like the knights templar. The jesuits were set up by a soldier Ignatius Loyola who is said by some to have set up a branch of the illuminati

They are a secretive, male only, hierarchical, pyramidal order that have initiation ceremonies. They are another solar phallic cult

Thats not to say that all people in the catholic church have a sinister agenda; there are plenty of good people in the church but the institution itself is rotten

The current pope was involved in supporting the fascist regime in Argentina. Some priests did oppose the regime but they were killed

Obviously their first mission is evangelisation

Initially that revolved around burning at the stake any people who would not convert to their sun god

but they also promote and provide education in poor communities as well as charity.

They want to control how the young think and feel about the world, that is true

The Jesuits are very well educated intellectuals.

yes and hoarders of knowledge. The occult Voynich manuscript used to belong to them

This is why there has been some mistrust between the main body of the Catholic Church and the Jesuits in the past.

No the mistrust exists because of the autonomy of the jesuits...they don't answer to the church and have their own 'black pope'...they are a shadow order

They have not hesitated in opposing the Pope and doing what they believe is best for the communities they are serving.

They have not hesitated in carrying out activities in accordance with the secret society networks wishes

They have done some great works to help the poor. I believe that the biggest tool for the elimination of poverty is education.

Not if the people are brainwashed

This is why most communities where there are Jesuit missions are thriving. Charity alone does not eliminate poverty, but charity combined with proper education can.

The jesuits will attach themselves to any community that looks like it might become significant....the secret society network want to control the game

When the ground opened up in Malta one day to reveal a previously undiscovered temple of the mysterious 'temple builder' people the jesuits were the first people to enter so that they could steal any artifacts that would teach people about the old religion

In the Uk the masonic Royal Society of Antiquarians perfomrs the same task, covering up the old ways

The current Jesuit Pope is a great example as he is shaking things up in the Vatican ,choosing to live in modest lodgings, drives his own modest car, and suggested to people that would fly out for his installment as Pope to use the money it would cost to help the poor instead. He has even been recently called a Marxist because he has criticized capitalism.

He had to do this as the church has been rocked by scandals. His mission is a PR exercise to try and boost the image of the church again

You cannot turn the catholic church into something pure it is built on lies and deception

Any pious christian would be better off creating their own church rather than enter that pit of vipers

Here's an actual recent Apostolic Exhortation from Pope Francis:

No to an economy of exclusion

53. Just as the commandment “Thou shalt not kill” sets a clear limit in order to safeguard the value of human life, today we also have to say “thou shalt not” to an economy of exclusion and inequality. Such an economy kills. How can it be that it is not a news item when an elderly homeless person dies of exposure, but it is news when the stock market loses two points? This is a case of exclusion. Can we continue to stand by when food is thrown away while people are starving? This is a case of inequality. Today everything comes under the laws of competition and the survival of the fittest, where the powerful feed upon the powerless. As a consequence, masses of people find themselves excluded and marginalized: without work, without possibilities, without any means of escape.

Human beings are themselves considered consumer goods to be used and then discarded. We have created a “throw away” culture which is now spreading. It is no longer simply about exploitation and oppression, but something new. Exclusion ultimately has to do with what it means to be a part of the society in which we live; those excluded are no longer society’s underside or its fringes or its disenfranchised – they are no longer even a part of it. The excluded are not the “exploited” but the outcast, the “leftovers”.

54. In this context, some people continue to defend trickle-down theories which assume that economic growth, encouraged by a free market, will inevitably succeed in bringing about greater justice and inclusiveness in the world. This opinion, which has never been confirmed by the facts, expresses a crude and naïve trust in the goodness of those wielding economic power and in the sacralized workings of the prevailing economic system. Meanwhile, the excluded are still waiting. To sustain a lifestyle which excludes others, or to sustain enthusiasm for that selfish ideal, a globalization of indifference has developed. Almost without being aware of it, we end up being incapable of feeling compassion at the outcry of the poor, weeping for other people’s pain, and feeling a need to help them, as though all this were someone else’s responsibility and not our own. The culture of prosperity deadens us; we are thrilled if the market offers us something new to purchase. In the meantime all those lives stunted for lack of opportunity seem a mere spectacle; they fail to move us.



muir - seems like the Pope might have some similar views as you do

Words are cheap

The church has been studying the words of people like me...they listen to the 'noise' on the internet....they tell us what they think we want to hear

lets see the church purge itself of the mafia and the masons, open up its forbidden libraries and lets see them sell their treasure and end world poverty...then i'll take them seriously

The church has called for a world central bank...they are part of the new world order
 
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Words are cheap

The church has been studying the words of people like me...they listen to the 'noise' on the internet....they tell us what they think we want to hear

lets see the church purge itself of the mafia and the masons, open up its forbidden libraries and lets see them sell their treasure and end world poverty...then i'll take them seriously

Really? I don't know the last Pope certainly wasn't saying anything that most people wanted to hear. Traditionally popes have not been prone to going along and saying what the general population wanted to hear, and I'm pretty sure this Pope is not too concerned with internet discussions on conspiracy theories.

He has been gradually working on changing the culture at the Vatican and clearing out the corruption, including the old Italian order. He hasn't been Pope very long, so I'm sure we'll see more. He is definitely living according to his words.

He may have made some mistakes in Argentina but he also risked his life to save people. I believe he did what he thought was right at the time but of course he is human and makes mistakes like the rest of us.

The Black Pope is just a term used by the media to describe the Superior General and this is because he wears the simple black robe of the ordinary priest instead of the fancy robes that the bishops and the Pope wear.

I think you have it all wrong when it comes to the Jesuits. I have no doubt that there has been some instances in the past when Jesuits have used their position to do wrong, as in most organizations but they have also done a great of good in the World.

You don know that Dan Brown writes fiction, right?
 
Words may be cheap, but these declarations by the Pope are refreshing and may open the eyes of some people. I know you like to go against the system but I think working with the system to exact change works best. Actually, it's the only way to actually make a difference.

I believe in action and not words. That is why I don't spend much time on debating conspiracy theories, some of them have some truth, many of them are very twisted, but my time is better spent working with my local organizations to make a change at the grass roots and hopefully if enough of us do that then we will make a difference.

Pope Francis with his Word has actually publicly legitimized what many of us are saying about income inequality and the 1%. I think that's a great thing.
 
Really? I don't know the last Pope certainly wasn't saying anything that most people wanted to hear. Traditionally popes have not been prone to going along and saying what the general population wanted to hear, and I'm pretty sure this Pope is not too concerned with internet discussions on conspiracy theories.

He has been gradually working on changing the culture at the Vatican and clearing out the corruption, including the old Italian order. He hasn't been Pope very long, so I'm sure we'll see more. He is definitely living according to his words.

He may have made some mistakes in Argentina but he also risked his life to save people. I believe he did what he thought was right at the time but of course he is human and makes mistakes like the rest of us.

The Black Pope is just a term used by the media to describe the Superior General and this is because he wears the simple black robe of the ordinary priest instead of the fancy robes that the bishops and the Pope wear.

I think you have it all wrong when it comes to the Jesuits. I have no doubt that there has been some instances in the past when Jesuits have used their position to do wrong, as in most organizations but they have also done a great of good in the World.

You don know that Dan Brown writes fiction, right?

I've never read anything by Dan Brown but i think his stuff is probably missdirection

I trust the jesuits about as far as i can throw them
 
Words may be cheap, but these declarations by the Pope are refreshing and may open the eyes of some people. I know you like to go against the system but I think working with the system to exact change works best. Actually, it's the only way to actually make a difference.

No building a new system out of the shell of the old is the way to change things

I believe in action and not words. That is why I don't spend much time on debating conspiracy theories, some of them have some truth, many of them are very twisted, but my time is better spent working with my local organizations to make a change at the grass roots and hopefully if enough of us do that then we will make a difference.

Direct action is very important for sure

The talk of 'conspiracy theories' online though which is being driven by the alternative media is causing fundamental change

two recent examples where how public opinion went against the war in syria because they were suspicious of the governments claim and another is how there was no government follow up on the false flag boston bombing attack due to public suspicion.....google hits on the words 'false flag' went through the roof...the public are waking up

Pope Francis with his Word has actually publicly legitimized what many of us are saying about income inequality and the 1%. I think that's a great thing.

Lets hope he means what he says but i'll not hold my breath
 
I'm not going to give you the answer. If you really want to know, do more research and discover it for yourself.

It won't mean anything if I just tell you.

So then yes. Well done., well done.
 
Really? I don't know the last Pope certainly wasn't saying anything that most people wanted to hear. Traditionally popes have not been prone to going along and saying what the general population wanted to hear, and I'm pretty sure this Pope is not too concerned with internet discussions on conspiracy theories.

He has been gradually working on changing the culture at the Vatican and clearing out the corruption, including the old Italian order. He hasn't been Pope very long, so I'm sure we'll see more. He is definitely living according to his words.

He may have made some mistakes in Argentina but he also risked his life to save people. I believe he did what he thought was right at the time but of course he is human and makes mistakes like the rest of us.

The Black Pope is just a term used by the media to describe the Superior General and this is because he wears the simple black robe of the ordinary priest instead of the fancy robes that the bishops and the Pope wear.

I think you have it all wrong when it comes to the Jesuits. I have no doubt that there has been some instances in the past when Jesuits have used their position to do wrong, as in most organizations but they have also done a great of good in the World.

You don know that Dan Brown writes fiction, right?
I agree that the current pope has said some very profound things for the Catholic Church...his words on homosexuality, money being worshiped as a false idol, etc. Those are all wonderful things....but until he truly takes a hard line stance against the priest-child molestation that has been going on for who knows how long? And is still continuing to this day....until those priests are put in prison instead of moved to another parish...then it’s all just words. Also to go along with what he says about money being a false idol....let’s see the Catholic Church liquidate some of the riches they own to help feed and clothe the poor...if anyone has made money into false idols....the over the top decor, golden statues, etc....it’s the Church.
 
I agree that the current pope has said some very profound things for the Catholic Church...his words on homosexuality, money being worshiped as a false idol, etc. Those are all wonderful things....but until he truly takes a hard line stance against the priest-child molestation that has been going on for who knows how long? And is still continuing to this day....until those priests are put in prison instead of moved to another parish...then it’s all just words. Also to go along with what he says about money being a false idol....let’s see the Catholic Church liquidate some of the riches they own to help feed and clothe the poor...if anyone has made money into false idols....the over the top decor, golden statues, etc....it’s the Church.

I agree.

I have just never thought I would hear a Pope says some of the things he has said or do some of the things he has done. He is a humble man and I have never believed that about any Pope. John-Paul II was charismatic but I wouldn't call him humble and certainly not even close to the degree of this Pope. I have hope that he can make a difference in the Catholic church. The problem is that he has to deal with a very entrenched system with some powerful bishops who likely aren't very happy with what he is saying and doing. I think he is legit as to his intentions, let's just see if the Pope has as much power as we are made to believe or if the internal politics win out. I was shocked that they even voted him in and I believe that it showed there were enough bishops who want drastic change in the church.

I don't in any way believe that the Pope is infallible as we are supposed to believed in the Catholic church but I do know that many of the world's christians, not just Catholic's are influenced by what the Pope says. Words are a start, and when it comes from the Pope a lot of people are listening. Besides, anybody that Rush Limbaugh calls a Marxist must have some redeeming qualities.
 
I agree.

I have just never thought I would hear a Pope says some of the things he has said or do some of the things he has done. He is a humble man and I have never believed that about any Pope. John-Paul II was charismatic but I wouldn't call him humble and certainly not even close to the degree of this Pope. I have hope that he can make a difference in the Catholic church. The problem is that he has to deal with a very entrenched system with some powerful bishops who likely aren't very happy with what he is saying and doing. I think he is legit as to his intentions, let's just see if the Pope has as much power as we are made to believe or if the internal politics win out. I was shocked that they even voted him in and I believe that it showed there were enough bishops who want drastic change in the church.

I don't in any way believe that the Pope is infallible as we are supposed to believed in the Catholic church but I do know that many of the world's christians, not just Catholic's are influenced by what the Pope says. Words are a start, and when it comes from the Pope a lot of people are listening. Besides, anybody that Rush Limbaugh calls a Marxist must have some redeeming qualities.
Lololol...yes...I just go with whatever pisses Rush off being the correct thing....lol.
I agree...let’s give him some time....hopefully he can make a real difference!
 
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I've never read anything by Dan Brown but i think his stuff is probably missdirection

Good for you. That shows there is hope for you still :)
 
Pope Francis hasn't changed the stance of the church at all, on any subject, yet. He simply has changed rhetoric and presentation. Which, I think, is a mighty step indeed.

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As for poverty, [MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION], you're right. Didn't think of it that way. Perhaps the real question is, what poverty really is bad? Poverty of wealth...of companionship...of entertainment...of mind? Or maybe a poverty of freedom, or contentment?

That goes back to the OP on meaning of life, too.
 
Pope Francis hasn't changed the stance of the church at all, on any subject, yet. He simply has changed rhetoric and presentation. Which, I think, is a mighty step indeed.

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As for poverty, @muir , you're right. Didn't think of it that way. Perhaps the real question is, what poverty really is bad? Poverty of wealth...of companionship...of entertainment...of mind? Or maybe a poverty of freedom, or contentment?

That goes back to the OP on meaning of life, too.

Well done your worshipfullness you managed to link a discussion to the OP...i do that sometimes :)

I think all those poverties you've mentioned are harmful. Poverty of imagination is another one and of opportunity and so on

Concerning the church.....i think about it this way:

Imagine the mob in chicago during the prohibition. its a brutal world full of violence and double dealing. The most ruthless people rise to the top. Thats how Al Capone rose...he was ruthless. in that environment anything less gets eaten alive

The mob was built on lies and deceit just like the church. Both have business interests that they ruthlessly protect and pursue.

Could a truely caring person just suddenly rise to the top of the mob? Because that is what we are being asked to believe is what has happened in the church

The mob and the church are like a wolf pack...the fiercest rises to the top to take the alpha spot. A lamb cannot rise to the top of the wolf pack. But a wolf in sheeps clothing could
 
Could a truely caring person just suddenly rise to the top of the mob? Because that is what we are being asked to believe is what has happened in the church

The mob and the church are like a wolf pack...the fiercest rises to the top to take the alpha spot. A lamb cannot rise to the top of the wolf pack. But a wolf in sheeps clothing could

Maybe it's a miracle :)
 
Maybe it's a miracle :)

No the miracle is when the illusions are dispelled and humanity comes together

Thats the one i'm holding out for
 
No the miracle is when the illusions are dispelled and humanity comes together

Thats the one i'm holding out for

That would be a huge miracle. Sorry, but I don't expect that in my lifetime.
 
That would be a huge miracle. Sorry, but I don't expect that in my lifetime.

Nevertheless a pilgrim needs a path

henri-bergson.jpg

[FONT=&quot]“Enlightenment is a destructive process. It has nothing to do with becoming better or being happier. Enlightenment is the crumbling away of untruth. It’s seeing through the facade of pretense. It’s the complete eradication of everything we imagined to be true.” — Adyashanti[/FONT]
 
Well done your worshipfullness you managed to link a discussion to the OP...i do that sometimes :)

I think all those poverties you've mentioned are harmful. Poverty of imagination is another one and of opportunity and so on

Concerning the church.....i think about it this way:

Imagine the mob in chicago during the prohibition. its a brutal world full of violence and double dealing. The most ruthless people rise to the top. Thats how Al Capone rose...he was ruthless. in that environment anything less gets eaten alive

The mob was built on lies and deceit just like the church. Both have business interests that they ruthlessly protect and pursue.

Could a truely caring person just suddenly rise to the top of the mob? Because that is what we are being asked to believe is what has happened in the church

The mob and the church are like a wolf pack...the fiercest rises to the top to take the alpha spot. A lamb cannot rise to the top of the wolf pack. But a wolf in sheeps clothing could


Interesting. The mobs did do great things for certain communities, too. So do churches. And come to think, a lot of institutions are frankly inherently evil - like governments.

But what about intended poverty? Choosing to have a poverty of wealth instead of a poverty of wisdom? Perhaps it's a zero sum game.