The irony of Prisons | INFJ Forum

The irony of Prisons

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by slant, Jan 9, 2010.

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  1. slant

    slant Ruboobie
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    Look at the irony of the world today.

    We're spending more and more money to keep the 'bad guys' in jail, using taxpayer's money, at the expense of robbing other industries from the money- an important one, being Education. How much money could we save if we absolutely eliminated prisons and the upkeep it takes to keep up prisioners- Prisoners who are in there for life, their entire life getting a free ride from the government all because they did something wrong.

    If we decided to use the death penalty on people who got a life sentence and kill them all, that would cut down on costs a bit, but prisons are still having to be built, people constantly being incarcerated.

    Wouldn't it be a good idea to stop the madness by legalizing drugs so we didn't have to arrest people who we caught having them?

    That would save a ton.

    I'm speaking of the American Prison system, I don't know if it is different elsewise.

    What are your thoughts about prisons, their expenses, etc.

    Is it worth it to you, or would you rather see your money going elsewhere?

    Would you be okay with it if the government took steps towards making it less pricey, like death sentencing murders and such?

    Do you see the flaw in death sentencing if someone is 'innocent', does that mean we should take a look at our governing system and the flaws within it?

    Would you support legalization of drugs if it were for a economical reason?

    Discuss.
     
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  2. sassafras

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    Or, just make the prisoners work for their upkeep?
     
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  3. OP
    slant

    slant Ruboobie
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    Possible.

    Don't you think that's dangerous though?

    A lot of prisoners work in the kitchen in Utah State Prison [ I should know, my grandfather is a prison guard there]. But from what I have heard only a select number of them are on a security level screened to allow them to work. I don't think that all of the inmates could be trusted....It could end up costing us more money in the longrun to follow them around and make sure they are doing their job safely rather than the current state. Though, that's pure opinion- it's just what I would speculate based on what I know.
     
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  4. NeverAmI

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    The jail system is already thought of as a business, it grows and grows because people make money, and I believe that comes from taxpayers?

    I think right now they like to get the prisons as jam-packed as possible because they get more money.

    I don't have any hard facts on this because I am too lazy to research right now, but please if you have some insight on this, share it!
     
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  5. sassafras

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    Yeah, but that creates jobs for folks who aren't incarcerated and they in turn pump that money back into the economy. I thought your point here was that it was the prisoners that are getting the free ride?
     
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    #5 sassafras, Jan 9, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2010
  6. NeverAmI

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    Free education too, Con College. :D
     
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  7. The Jester

    It wouldn't work to have death sentences for prisoners who are on life sentences, because you'd inforce such heavy punishments that they'd have contraproductive effects.

    If delinquency is punished very heavily, crime increases.

    I thought, fuck my post count.
    Btw, this might be a cool thing:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon

    I think it uses as little guards as possible, the prisoners work and they're under constant surveillance.
     
  8. enfp can be shy

    enfp can be shy people vs the bad people?
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    Prisons are outdated system, used when people didn't have ANY idea what the hell is going on in each other's minds, so they just used swords, guns, and dungeons, when there was a "problem". Even though prisoners are alive in prison, it's still just useless torturing of human beings, which rarely helps them. Moreover, it's a human "social disease center", to put it so, where anybody could be thrown by bad luck, and then would be hard to readjust to normal. Same applies to madhouses. I think the percentage of people getting out of prisons and madhouses being "better" is so low, that they might as well just kill everybody who has the tough luck to get there. /i don't mean it, just being sarcastic/

    I've noticed that some of the socially/technically advanced nations already aim towards using other rehabilitations: criminals get to meet with their victims, and that helps both sides eventually (we are humans, after all); also patients who report mental difficulties are not rushed into hospitals, but are consulted personally (which doesn't mean "mark them with 3- or 4-letter disease and give them debilitating meds").
     
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    #8 enfp can be shy, Jan 9, 2010
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  9. bamf

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    We have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world, and we hold a good chunk of the world's prisoners. I think decriminalizing drug offenses (ie, possession) for a user would be a good start. That would cut down on some costs. I agree, more work programs would be a good idea, just I'm unsure what programs could be used to generate a decent amount of revenue for the prison (thus requiring fewer taxpayer dollars).

    However, I don't think murdering a murderer is a good excuse to save money...I personally can't support the death penalty (especially for economic gain) in good conscious.
     
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  10. The Jester

    Prisons still have a function, it scares people and makes them not commit crime, they make sure delinquents won't do anything bad while they're in prison, ...

    And there is NOTHING sure when it comes to social sciences, so there'll probably never be a method that works for everyone.
    And rehibilitation works only in a few cases, you wouldn't be able to apply to every crime.
    And it wouldn't scare people (and thus preventing them to commit crime) like prisons.
     
  11. under skies

    under skies Community Member

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    As far as working for their unkeep goes, I was under the impression that most prisoners did work, although that may just be the state that I'm from. An immediate family member of mine has been in and out of prison, and everywhere he has been incarcerated, he has had some kind of job. He spent most of his time as a chef and around the kitchen, but he's also worked as an electrician and helped to build bridges.

    He also spent a year in something I forgot the name for, but it was like being in prison, except that he could leave during the day to go to work.


    Is it worth it to you, or would you rather see your money going elsewhere?

    I definitely believe the prison system is necessary because fear can be a great motivator to prevent certain activities from occurring. It doesn't work for everyone, but it does for many.

    There are certain aspects of prison regarding the way money is spent that I don't like and that I think should be regulated better. For example, I think money spent on televisions and screening films is ridiculous. Why are we paying to entertain convicts?

    Would you be okay with it if the government took steps towards making it less pricey, like death sentencing murders and such?

    Execution can actually be more expensive than simply housing a prisoner condemned to the death sentence. To actually save money by doing this, we would have to adopt a much less humane method of execution, and I have no idea how I feel about that.

    Would you support legalization of drugs if it were for a economical reason?

    No. I think that fear of going to prison keeps people of certain personality types from using/trafficking/selling them, and it's my personal belief that that's a good thing. Some people just don't know when to stop, and that combined with the consolence that there is nothing "wrong" with using drugs can really screw you over. If it's going to ruin someone's life, it isn't worth it.
     
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  12. Faye

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    The death sentnce is more expensive IIRC.

    I would support the legalization of drugs, especially pot, for economic reasons. I think we should legalize it and tax the hell out of it.
     
  13. enfp can be shy

    enfp can be shy people vs the bad people?
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    Fear is the main reason why all crimes are committed, in the first place.


    "[...] if you have to prepare for war, then you are in a state where you cannot abolish war." - Albert Einstein
     
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    #13 enfp can be shy, Jan 10, 2010
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  14. OP
    slant

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    Well, in a psychology book which I really like "Bad boys, Bad men" which is mainly about antisocial personality disorder, it mentioned that students were sent on a field trip to the prisons to 'scare them' from going to jail. There was also a group of student who were not subjected to this.

    As it turns out the group that went to the prison and were supposed to be scared of ending up there had higher crime rates and more students went to jail than the group that hadn't. What does that tell you, folks?
     
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  15. Barnabas

    Barnabas Time Lord

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    false. Poverty is the reason most crimes are commited
     
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  16. bamf

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    I agree. I see fear related to poverty though. I don't think they commit the crimes because they are poor, but rather because they are afraid of being poor, and continuing to become more impoverished.
     
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  17. sassafras

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    Yeah, that and poverty, lack of education, opportunity, psychological disturbance, social conditioning, etc. I think its a far cry to say that crime has just one "main reason," if my sociological education has anything to say about it.

    What I'm interested in seeing is if anyone has read a study about whether harsher punishment has any effect whatsoever on the levels of crime in the relative absence of poverty and social glorification of criminal activity. (Do not misinterpret and make false assumptions about why I am inquiring about this). Anyone have articles that deal with similar studies?
     
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  18. bamf

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    I could see fear as a motivator behind all of those reasons. However, there are definitely more than one emotional motivator for 'crime'.
     
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  19. Sithious

    Sithious Well-known member

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    But if they didn't fear anything they wouldn't have been stealing, "they" meaning the poor people.

    Ergo I iz smart
     
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  20. OP
    slant

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    The cause of crime is indefinite and undetermined. A lot of it can be blamed on extreme personality disorders that cause people to lash out towards society. The cause of these personality disorders are still to a certain point unknown. But really, if poverty is in fact the reason crimes are committed then doesn't it make sense to cut back the money spent on prisons since it's become an industry and is allowing other important areas to suffer when they could use the funding?
     
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