The INFJ Divide "/" | Page 2 | INFJ Forum

The INFJ Divide "/"

This is right in line with my new train of thought on the subject of cognitive processes and how people develop. It's becoming clear that the standard development model is not especially accurate and that everyone develops however they need to. The more I take a look at how the cognitive processes interact in the physiological sense, the clearer it becomes that there are no rules in cognitive development, only trends. Some of us develop a little more of this, and some of us develop a little more than that. I dare say that cognitive processes are like fingerprints. There are distinct types, but each one is unique, and some of them have elements from the other types.

This theory reminds also me a lot of something I posted a while back. http://forums.infjs.com/showthread.php?t=6204
 
Interesting list, it explains the vast amount of diversity on this forum for a forum that, for the most part, is all the same type.

@sandra_b: I kinda got the ISFJ vibe too
 
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Actually looking at my function order, my best fit would be INFJ/ENFJ/ENTP
 
INFJ/INFP - those with a strong Fi
This is perhaps the most common due to the limbic nature of Fi mixing with Ni and Fe's limbic connection via the cingulate gyrus (Ni) and the limbic/frontal lobe (Fe). It's a natural progression based on the physiology of the brain, as well as a natural progression psychologically if the INFJ is prone to withdraw during the development of Fe (usually the teenage years). It also seems that this configuration also tends to develop some Ne as well.

INFJ/INTJ - those with a strong Ti (or sometimes a strong Te... in rare cases both)
This is almost always the case when INFJs go deeply introverted and rely upon their Ni and Ti. Some INFJs develop the ability to use Fe and Ti in tandem to simulate Te, but it is rare that INFJs actually develop real Te until much later in life, though not impossible due to the proximity of Fe to Te in the frontal lobes.

INFJ/ISFJ - those with a strong Si
This is a developmental situation that I don't understand and due to the nature of Ni and Si being somewhat oppositional in Beebe's model. However the areas of the brain in which Ti and Si reside seem to overlap somewhat, so this development is certainly possible, especially if the INFJ was raised in an environment that required a lot of Si behaviors and sensibilities.

INFJ/ENFJ - those with a strong Fe, and often a well developed Se
This seems to be a very common development pattern with INFJs, as they will inevitably develop their Fe more and more as they interact with the world around them. Eventually, this Fe (and Se) development will rival their Ni unless the INFJ manages to spend their lives doing a good job of being an introvert.

INFJ/ENFP - those with a strong Ne, and often a well developed Se
This is another of those combinations that seem unlikely, but makes a lot of sense physiologically, and according to Beebe's model of shadow functions. Ne shares a lot of physiological geography with Ni in the cingulate gyrus, and Ne can easily be cultivated in an INFJ, especially if creativity is encouraged.

Obviously, it is possible for individuals to develop more than one of the development subtypes.
 
Can you just get an INFJ... who is an INFJ? Someone who uses Ni, Fe, Ti and Se pretty much in that order? And with strength of preference from left to right?
 
Yield said:
Can you just get an INFJ... who is an INFJ? Someone who uses Ni, Fe, Ti and Se pretty much in that order? And with strength of preference from left to right?
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Absolutely. Seems to be about 25% of the people with the type, and since the other offshoots are exceptions to this norm, that's why the INFJ type has a pattern of Ni, Fe, Ti, and Se. In other words, if this is you, then you're quite normally developed.
 
VH said:
Absolutely. Seems to be about 25% of the people with the type, and since the other offshoots are exceptions to this norm, that's why the INFJ type has a pattern of Ni, Fe, Ti, and Se. In other words, if this is you, then you're quite normally developed.
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I honestly think this is me.

My Ni is the invisible steering wheel, I'm almost never conscious of it. Fe, always when I'm with people (even though my social skills aren't that great). I use Ti to de-stress (look at technical stuff like computers and cameras) and also wash everything through it (plans, ideas, thoughts and feelings) to make sure they are logical and correct. And Se when I train, I have a natural talent for combatives. And Se also to stay in touch with my environment when I'm unsure or scared.

Also when I'm in leaderships roles, which is quite frequent, I lead with Fe because making people feel good and comfortable in their working environment is the best way to work in my opinion. But I'm not afraid to be assertive and haul ass/fight with Ti & Se, if that is what is used when I do so.
 
add me to INFJ/INTJ =)
 
Yield said:
I honestly think this is me.

My Ni is the invisible steering wheel, I'm almost never conscious of it. Fe, always when I'm with people (even though my social skills aren't that great). I use Ti to de-stress (look at technical stuff like computers and cameras) and also wash everything through it (plans, ideas, thoughts and feelings) to make sure they are logical and correct. And Se when I train, I have a natural talent for combatives. And Se also to stay in touch with my environment when I'm unsure or scared.
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Yup, this was almost exactly me for the majority of my life, right down to the natural talent for combatives.

Yield said:
Also when I'm in leaderships roles, which is quite frequent, I lead with Fe because making people feel good and comfortable in their working environment is the best way to work in my opinion. But I'm not afraid to be assertive and haul ass/fight with Ti & Se, if that is what is used when I do so.
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Yup. You're a classic healthy INFJ. However, keep in mind that if you continue to end up in leadership roles (and especially if you keep developing your Se), you're going to develop into something resembling an ENFJ soon. It's a natural part of the progression. Ni and Fe end up being similarly well developed, and the only difference between them is which you normally begin your thought process with. With Ni being really hard for us to see, this will really make for an ENFJ effect.
 
Raccoon Love said:
I am starting to think I am more solid INFP with each day. I relate a lot more to INFP descriptions/views now that I really look into it. Does anybody think the same?
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I am prone to this; or at least having a very high Fi / quickly irritated.

INFJ/INFP - those with a strong Fi
This is perhaps the most common due to the limbic nature of Fi mixing with Ni and Fe's limbic connection via the cingulate gyrus (Ni) and the limbic/frontal lobe (Fe). It's a natural progression based on the physiology of the brain, as well as a natural progression psychologically if the INFJ is prone to withdraw during the development of Fe (usually the teenage years). It also seems that this configuration also tends to develop some Ne as well.
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It fits so much. I also tried to 'develop' a thinking system (formerly, I was pretty much...scattered); that becomes brainstorming (Possibly with Ni + Ne) now.
 
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:( I can't participate in the list :( I feel so left out :( Well I'm going to write about myself anyways!

I think it's clear as air that I'm an INTJ. Other cognitive functions have come to life a lot more over the past year though. All things considered, I think that the most accurate description would be that I'm an INTJ/INFP split. Although perhaps an even better description would be simply a more balanced INTJ.

It's hard to nail down exactly what I am, because my use of cognitive functions will differ based on cycles of mood.

Ni: This is usually quite dominant.
Te: This is usually the auxiliary function, but I think that auxiliary spot is becoming more shared with other functions.
Fi: I think this function actually flips between auxiliary and tertiary.
Fe: Amazingly, this takes on auxiliary or tertiary spots sometimes. I can even consciously turn it on if I want to.
Ne: Again, another function I consciously flip on and off. I basically just use it when I need to.
Ti, Se, Si: Very rarely use these.

Most of the time I do follow Ni > Te > Fi as is an INTJ set. I think that sometimes Ni does get displaced, but it's mostly the Te Fi Fe and Ne that tend to shuffle around fairly regularly. I think my cognitive functions actually shuffle around quite often over the course of a day. I think that I actually use Fe or Ne to gather information for Te.
 
Interesting idea QP. Another thing that might come into play are the individual's enneagram type. For example, a person in the INFJ/INFP divide could be people with a ennegram 9(or 4) type. The INFJ/INTJ=enneagram type 5(or 6); INFJ/ISFJ=ennegram type 1 and INFJ/ENFJ type could have an ennegram type 2.

In any case, these are different taxonomy systems but maybe it could give us a broader idea of why people of the same type may have different versions of INFJ.
 
I am an ennangram 1w2, and I personally feel like I can slide into ISFJ type stuff. It seems like everyone on the forums disagrees that I even remotely resemble an ISFJ though so I will just stick with that then. I feel like I use Si a good amount. At the very least, it is certainly not disregarded.
 
I apologize in advance for the criticism, but I feel it needs to be expressed.

The problem that I see with this theory is how much of an emphasis it puts on the four dichotomies. The dichotomies are really only a tool for conveniently typing people in a questions based test, they are not actually what makes a personality type.
The dichotomies are a simplification of a massively complex model, simplification does not actually make things more clear in this case, it makes it vague. Really really vague.

Let's start from the top: One day there was a Psychologist named Carl Jung who designed a theory of personality he called "Psychological types." The original theory was based on 8 types all defined by one of eight dominant cognitive functions.
It was a decent theory but it was a bit incomplete. Enter Isabel Meyers and and Kathrine Briggs who expanded the theory through their discover of the types not simply being defined by their dominant function, but their dominant function and auxiliary, with their 2 lower functions reflecting these. The types expanded to 16.

Meyers and Briggs intended to create a quick and convenient written test, that could guess at what a person's top two functions are simply by asking four questions in several different ways:

Are you stimulated by the outer or inner world? (Introvert or Extrovert)
What kind of information to you prefer? (Sensing or Intuition)
How do you prefer to make sense of this information? (Thinking or Feeling)
What kind of lifestyle do you prefer to lead? (Perceiving or Judging)

Thinking or Feeling will tell you if it is a thinking or feeling function in the person's top two. Sensing or Intuition will tell you if it is a sensing or intuition perception function in their top two.
Perceiving or Judging will tell you if the person has an extroverted perception or extroverted Judgment function, and thus if they are directive or adaptive.
Extrovert or introvert will tell you if their dominant function is the introverted function or the extroverted function.
The bottom two functions always reflect the top two, so if you can guess the top two, you get the personality type.

So in other words: It all goes back to the hierarchy of cognitive functions, without the cognitive functions there are no dichotomies. They are the source of this entire model, and understanding how they work gives you a far greater understanding of the personality than simply testing the dichotomies.

Let me give you an example:

Let's say you are INTJ with a strong and well developed Fi. On an MBTI test you might come up INFJ or maybe INTJ with with 50% on T/F, giving the impression that you are a spit between INTJ and INFJ; this however, could not be further from the truth. The INTJ and INFJ have two completely different cognitive function configurations, An INFJ with developed Ti is not the same thing as an INTJ, in the same way that an INTJ with well developed Fi is not the same thing as an INFJ.

You see, what defines your personality is not what you are capable of doing, because we are actually all capable of using Thinking, Feeling, intuition, and sensing functions. Our personality is defined by our "starting point" and the hierarchy of how we expand outward from this point.

So for instance as an INTP I begin with Ti as my source and then expand outward to Ne then Si, then Fe, and so on and so forth. So when an INTP reaches their Fe, that doesn't make them a borderline INFP beacuse 1.) INFPs begin with Fi, and INTPs begin with Ti as their source, it is a different configuration and thus different type 2.) That is Fe the INTP is using, not Fi, and finally 3.) The INTP is actually not doing anything that INTPs were not already designed to do, we are already wired to expand into our Fe, so doing this is exactly what would make an INTP an INTP, and nothing else.
 
I think some of you confuse Si with Ti, and Fe with Te. That's something that particularly stood out to me when I read IndigoSensor's thread about possibly being an INTJ.
 
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Res said:
Could you explain?
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I often see the use of Si being equated with a good recollection of past; or people assuming that because they have a good memory they are a Si user.

Others have described Si as piecing things from the past together, or in some similar fashion where it serves as a way to "ground" information, and that really sounds like tert. Ti use to me.

Also, the assumption that Fe is always warm and affable. While in reality Fe can be just as "cold" and objective as Te.

"The extravert's feeling is always in harmony with objective values. For anyone who has known feeling only as something subjective, the nature of extraverted feeling will be difficult to grasp, because it has detached itself as much as possible from the subjective factor and subordinated itself entirely to the influence of the object. Even when it appears not to be qualified by a concrete object, it is none the less under the spell of traditional or generally accepted values of some kind...This kind of feeling is largely responsible for the fact that so many people flock to the theatre or to concerts, or go to church...fashions, too, owe their whole existence to it, and, what is far more valuable, the positive support of social, philanthropic, and other such cultural institutions. In these matters extraverted feeling proves itself a creative factor. Without it, a harmonious social life would be impossible." --C.G. Jung, Psychological Types (#595, 596)
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Peppermint, I've used that same quote from Jung before to illustrate my point about Fi being different from Fe, to explain how I could have great Fe while having horrible Fi.

Peppermint said:
Also, the assumption that Fe is always warm and affable. While in reality Fe can be just as "cold" and objective as Te.
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And what about the reverse? Can you conceive of a situation in which Te would be considerate and affable rather than cold, terse, or blunt?
 
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Peppermint said:
Others have described Si as piecing things from the past together, or in some similar fashion where it serves as a way to "ground" information, and that really sounds like tert. Ti use to me.

Also, the assumption that Fe is always warm and affable. While in reality Fe can be just as "cold" and objective as Te.
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Mmmm, that would be Ti-Se working together specifically, which grounds information logically and concretely, assuming we are talking about INFJ cognitive functions.

I am going to have to ask how you are defining what it means to be "Cold"? Completely emotionless? or are you saying Fe is just not necessarily always nice?

I don't think I would agree that it can be "cold" because that would suggest that it has the option of no longer being values-based judgment (which it doesn't), even though I agree there is a lot of overlap in that Te and Fe are both extroverted judgment functions that both serve a purpose of Moving through and reading external dynamics; and the two are definitely confused for each other quite often.
 
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