The Ideal Society

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grapefruit

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How would you describe the ideal society? How does the society in which you live compare with your description? How can you implement changes to make the society to which you belong more like what you believe to be the ideal society?
 
Ideals are nice but impossible for something as vast as a society to live up to, especially considering they come in all flavors depending on which forest one gets their remedies from. Society/cultures has never been - nor will be - perfect, merely enough to bring the tribe together around a fire to scare the wolves off.
 
Well, the society I actually live in is made up of billions of people all chasing various programs for happiness based on illusion and a false self that will never really work. I can do little about that except try to nudge the boulder in the right direction. If I do this (rather than the opposite) then my life will have been worth living.
 
Radiant Shadow said:
Ideals are nice but impossible for something as vast as a society to live up to, especially considering they come in all flavors depending on which forest one gets their remedies from. Society/cultures has never been - nor will be - perfect, merely enough to bring the tribe together around a fire to scare the wolves off.
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I'm just saying that if society were perfect, what would it be like? What could we do to bring our society closer to this image.
 
grapefruit said:
I'm just saying that if society were perfect, what would it be like? What could we do to bring our society closer to this image.
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That depends on the beholder.
 
grapefruit said:
What could we do to bring our society closer to this image.
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Well, you'll probably think I'm nuts for saying so, but I think a cultural move away from illusion and false programs for happiness, a sense of proportion and justice in how we use the Earth and it's resources, and (I'm talking like a crazy man now) ultimately undertanding our essential kinship with all that is....this would actually help. Now the only pathway I know of to accomplish all this is spiritual renewal and a good many of those pathways are found in religion. Scandalous, I know. It is ironic that the very same structures that have visited so much misery on this world would also, within them, also contain the only known pathways to true human enlightenment. It is an irony we can scarcely tolerate, but we will have to deal with it one of these days.
 
randomsomeone said:
Well, you'll probably think I'm nuts for saying so, but I think a cultural move away from illusion and false programs for happiness, a sense of proportion and justice in how we use the Earth and it's resources, and (I'm talking like a crazy man now) ultimately undertanding our essential kinship with all that is....this would actually help. Now the only pathway I know of to accomplish all this is spiritual renewal and a good many of those pathways are found in religion. Scandalous, I know. It is ironic that the very same structures that have visited so much misery on this world would also, within them, also contain the only known pathways to true human enlightenment. It is an irony we can scarcely tolerate, but we will have to deal with it one of these days.
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If there were a like button on here, I would press it.
 
grapefruit said:
In your opinion?
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How so? Everyone has a different idea of what ought to be and, just as importantly, why. There are differing ideas of perfect - my paradise is tied to perceptions gleaned through the life I have lived, for example. Does that make it better than someone else'? Of course not, it is simply one perception of reality among infinitely more. That we seem to disagree (?) on this issue is indicative of this concept.
 
Radiant Shadow said:
How so? Everyone has a different idea of what ought to be and, just as importantly, why. There are differing ideas of perfect - my paradise is tied to perceptions gleaned through the life I have lived, for example. Does that make it better than someone else'? Of course not, it is simply one perception of reality among infinitely more. That we seem to disagree (?) on this issue is indicative of this concept.
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It stands to reason that different people will have different answers to this thread. I did not create it to find one definite answer. I was simply curious as to what people think about the subject.
 
Aye...? My response was: it's impossible to have an ideal, perfect society. Granted, most can loosely agree on certain facets and try to bring it about (low crime, social equality, economy equality, fair legal system, non-oppressive government, etc) but the shades of these things - what is "fair" or "equal" - ignite wildfire disagreements. I suppose I took a roundabout approach to saying, "Dream it, try to make it, don't expect success". Oops
 
Radiant Shadow said:
Aye...? My response was: it's impossible to have an ideal, perfect society. Granted, most can loosely agree on certain facets and try to bring it about (low crime, social equality, economy equality, fair legal system, non-oppressive government, etc) but the shades of these things - what is "fair" or "equal" - ignite wildfire disagreements. I suppose I took a roundabout approach to saying, "Dream it, try to make it, don't expect success". Oops
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It seems to me that if you expect success, you will be more likely to get it, and the same goes for failure. Very few people these days consider society's downfalls to be there concern, and therefore do non initiate change when it is needed. Whether your version of the ideal society is or isn't valid, or is or isn't feasible, considering aspects of your ideal society can help you determine what you stand for, and where you are aiming.
 
Agreed! I never said the attempt was useless, just to be realistic with one's vision and ability to change whatever.
 
I may find myself doing a bit of nudging at times, but only toward what I believe would be a better society or "a better world to live in". I think by treating others with love, we will be at least heading in the right direction. However, I also believe we give the wrongdoers entirely too many rights. Those that prey on others should have more of a deterrent not to do so.
 
It's hard to even think of an ideal society anymore. After quite awhile thinking about it I have come to understand that life needs imperfection. Or what we would call imperfection. It seems that mankind thinks everyone else is the problem. So if I had my ideal society it would be hell for someone else. Because my expectations are based on my experience alone. So for me I feel that it is a waste of time to try to change anything but myself. I understand what your trying to do though. It's fun to think about though.
 
A practical step I find useful, aside from personal change and reorientation, and that is to align myself somehow with groups or communities who are engaged in this process as well, at least on some level. In my case, yes, they are out there and represent a society oriented along a more holistic, integrated model. In fact, I can visit them and, in fact, there are lots of them (more than I'd have initially thought)!

Now, there is another trick to all this inasmuch as we all know how weird groups can get sometimes...they may start out fine but can get off-track for lots of reasons. I have also found that there are strong resonances in the past with people and groups who also oriented themselves similarly. With these, the benefits and fruit of their efforts is a matter of history, their work is more time-tested and rooted. Not that we want to live in the past, but we can integrate these ideas and experiences into our view of the present...gaining a sort of perspective if you will.

So, between all three....our personal orientation and holistic change, that of communities devoted to similar ideals, and those in the past who resonate with our vision of today...I think we can actually exist within (even thrive within) a culture that is ideal while our society is not quite there yet.
 
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