The End of Christian America
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S
Shai Gar
Thanks for the link. Informative, to say the least. I didn't realise the decline of Christianity in the U.S. and the climb in agnostic/atheist.
To me, Religion's concern is with the spirit and soul, not the body.
To me, Religion's concern is with the spirit and soul, not the body.
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My thoughts on the topic:
The rate of decline of theism in the U.S. is likely to increase during the next decade. Christians might even be in the minority by 2030. We might have some very interesting developments in politics resulting from the second major divide of society: Christians versus non-Christians, in addition to the current political divide between conservatives and liberals.
Of course the majority of the remaining Christians would be on the conservative side, but considering that about half of the current population would not consider voting for an atheist, there would be significant frictions within the liberal spectrum, with many liberals resenting the new political popularity of atheists in their midst. There might be attempts to form a separate liberal Christian party. The same might occur among the conservative atheists, who might be frustrated by Christians dominating their party leadership.
I feel very fortunate to be able to observe these patterns in my lifetime.
Besides the political shakeups, how would the culture change? The decline of theism might be seen as a kind of enlightenment, but other than bringing us closer to a separation of church and state and away from a general taboo on atheism, I doubt that it will improve much. The true intellectual awakening is going on right now, and will probably soon be over, as the main source of atheists shifts from critically thinking converts to indoctrinated children. People aren't getting any smarter; they still tend to think like their parents and peers, and the herd mentality will soon become the driving force behind the decline of theism, as later generations come of age in more secular environment. Some might be loathe to admit it, but "free thought" is just not a sustainable ideal. If atheism become prominent enough, the Christians might be seen as the intellectuals of society, having studied an area of which most were ignorant.
What about the causes behind the current trend? I think we might owe much of it to YouTube. Since it was founded in 2005, it has become a massively popular forum of opinions, and, I believe, one of the biggest influences on popular opinions regarding religion. I would estimate 5-10 million people have taken interest in the YouTube debates on religion, and that has boosted the popularity of atheist authors like Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris and Dennett (whose books on the subject have all been published in the last five years). In the absence of a similar source for loads of information and diversity of opinions, YouTube has actually become a repected debating ground, and one of the few places where atheists dominate.
The rate of decline of theism in the U.S. is likely to increase during the next decade. Christians might even be in the minority by 2030. We might have some very interesting developments in politics resulting from the second major divide of society: Christians versus non-Christians, in addition to the current political divide between conservatives and liberals.
Of course the majority of the remaining Christians would be on the conservative side, but considering that about half of the current population would not consider voting for an atheist, there would be significant frictions within the liberal spectrum, with many liberals resenting the new political popularity of atheists in their midst. There might be attempts to form a separate liberal Christian party. The same might occur among the conservative atheists, who might be frustrated by Christians dominating their party leadership.
I feel very fortunate to be able to observe these patterns in my lifetime.
Besides the political shakeups, how would the culture change? The decline of theism might be seen as a kind of enlightenment, but other than bringing us closer to a separation of church and state and away from a general taboo on atheism, I doubt that it will improve much. The true intellectual awakening is going on right now, and will probably soon be over, as the main source of atheists shifts from critically thinking converts to indoctrinated children. People aren't getting any smarter; they still tend to think like their parents and peers, and the herd mentality will soon become the driving force behind the decline of theism, as later generations come of age in more secular environment. Some might be loathe to admit it, but "free thought" is just not a sustainable ideal. If atheism become prominent enough, the Christians might be seen as the intellectuals of society, having studied an area of which most were ignorant.
What about the causes behind the current trend? I think we might owe much of it to YouTube. Since it was founded in 2005, it has become a massively popular forum of opinions, and, I believe, one of the biggest influences on popular opinions regarding religion. I would estimate 5-10 million people have taken interest in the YouTube debates on religion, and that has boosted the popularity of atheist authors like Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris and Dennett (whose books on the subject have all been published in the last five years). In the absence of a similar source for loads of information and diversity of opinions, YouTube has actually become a repected debating ground, and one of the few places where atheists dominate.
I'm worried because of how polarized it is becoming. Liberals are becoming more socialist, conservatives are becoming more libertarian. Christians are becoming more evangelical and fundamentalist and non Christians are becoming more secular and atheist. At this rate I see the US falling apart into 2 or 3 countries down the road.
A very fine observation, TLM. I would agee with the decline of the number of Christians causing them to become a minority.
One point about the decline in Christianity is that, not only are there more people turning to atheism and agnosticism, but there are many who seek spirituality in Eastern religions such as Buddhism, and the so-called 'New Age' spiritual trends which are composites of multiple spiritual/religious aspects. As well, there is the rise in adherents to Islam.
How do you see these other factors affecting the role of Christianity in America as well as the rest of the world?
One point about the decline in Christianity is that, not only are there more people turning to atheism and agnosticism, but there are many who seek spirituality in Eastern religions such as Buddhism, and the so-called 'New Age' spiritual trends which are composites of multiple spiritual/religious aspects. As well, there is the rise in adherents to Islam.
How do you see these other factors affecting the role of Christianity in America as well as the rest of the world?
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E Bohemian - I suspect that Islam will become increasingly prevalent. This is already the case in Europe.
I suspect that within the next 30 years, muslims will probably have a significant political voice in the U.S. This is already starting to happen here in Sydney, where I live.
TLM - The possibility of a post-Christian society is as likely as a post-western society - quite likely.
I suspect that within the next 30 years, muslims will probably have a significant political voice in the U.S. This is already starting to happen here in Sydney, where I live.
TLM - The possibility of a post-Christian society is as likely as a post-western society - quite likely.
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S
Shai Gar
I just hope they develop their own lands first before spreading their "values".
I want to see another Islamic Golden Age, where scientific growth and religion get on well. So that all the religious nut-jobs can be religious and the rest of us can have advances.
I want to see another Islamic Golden Age, where scientific growth and religion get on well. So that all the religious nut-jobs can be religious and the rest of us can have advances.
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In some ways, I am ok with that. In others... not so much.
I see the us forming into: The northeast, the south east, the northwest, so-cal, and central plains.
I cannot help but to think about the reading of "War of the Worlds" in the media many years ago. Yes, there is somewhat of a herd mentality.
Yes, most are easily led. Yes, atheists have found their place on Youtube;
most feel no need to argue with those. Yes, Islam is growing as people are born into Islam. Yes, I feel there may be a certain falling away from the current government in America as Satya somewhat prophetically stated: I do agree it quite possible.
I see that as very likely in some manner or another. While a specific state may not be able to currently sponsor itself, a group of states with Church involvement may be able to make it work. Tithes instead of taxes; giving instead of being taken from.
No, I do not see a decline in Christianity.
Yes, there may be a falling away from Christianity in America. Christianity cannot be changed. There possibly could be fewer follow Christianity, but there can never be outside influence to change what it actually is. Shortcomings from individuals and organizations in the Christian faith are inherently going to take heed to mere human frailties, and those against Christianity may very well joy in seeing it. We know there will be a falling away. We are expecting it. We do not nail a bar stool against the bar for it. We will not hold a chair for it. We will not prepare a table for it. We do not wish for it or invite it to sit with us. We will not dine with it. We will not build a monument for it. We will hold fast to our Faith. We will not have our lights to be put out. We can accept what the world is bringing to itself.
We cannot say it will bring us no sorrow. There will always be Christianity.
As the world cycles itself into this new age of whatever one would like to call it, I feel the Christain Faith will move from the Reformation period into the Preparation period one day. That may be the biggest change outsiders may actually witness in Christianity, though the foundation and roots will never be changed. It is built on a solid foundation.
People will most always have their hearts' desires. I pray for the people in the world. Many may not like the idea I pray for them, but there is nothing but death can stop my praying for them while in this world. That is one of the things many want to rid themselves of, out of the many things they could wish for, in this world. Some things they shall not deter or take away.
Yes, most are easily led. Yes, atheists have found their place on Youtube;
most feel no need to argue with those. Yes, Islam is growing as people are born into Islam. Yes, I feel there may be a certain falling away from the current government in America as Satya somewhat prophetically stated: I do agree it quite possible.
I see that as very likely in some manner or another. While a specific state may not be able to currently sponsor itself, a group of states with Church involvement may be able to make it work. Tithes instead of taxes; giving instead of being taken from.
No, I do not see a decline in Christianity.
Yes, there may be a falling away from Christianity in America. Christianity cannot be changed. There possibly could be fewer follow Christianity, but there can never be outside influence to change what it actually is. Shortcomings from individuals and organizations in the Christian faith are inherently going to take heed to mere human frailties, and those against Christianity may very well joy in seeing it. We know there will be a falling away. We are expecting it. We do not nail a bar stool against the bar for it. We will not hold a chair for it. We will not prepare a table for it. We do not wish for it or invite it to sit with us. We will not dine with it. We will not build a monument for it. We will hold fast to our Faith. We will not have our lights to be put out. We can accept what the world is bringing to itself.
We cannot say it will bring us no sorrow. There will always be Christianity.
As the world cycles itself into this new age of whatever one would like to call it, I feel the Christain Faith will move from the Reformation period into the Preparation period one day. That may be the biggest change outsiders may actually witness in Christianity, though the foundation and roots will never be changed. It is built on a solid foundation.
People will most always have their hearts' desires. I pray for the people in the world. Many may not like the idea I pray for them, but there is nothing but death can stop my praying for them while in this world. That is one of the things many want to rid themselves of, out of the many things they could wish for, in this world. Some things they shall not deter or take away.
S
Shai Gar
Giving tithes to the Church instead of having taxes taken by the Federal Government.
I so cannot explain myself sometimes quite the way I wish.
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I visited a small church at a local hospital this morning before the crowd came and said my prayers in silence and solitude. I felt somewhat of a pull to go there and was receptive. When leaving, I went out a different way through a side door leading outside. I passed a small fountain with seats and a memorial on the ground amongst the garden and fountain, in memory of a woman whose vision and acknowledgement of others' needs outweighed those of her own. As I walked further I came upon a statue of Mary, where I cleaned the birds' droppings from her head. It was such a nice perch, I thought, so well to have the birds come to rest there. I left in peace.
I have no anger with this statement. I wish you could have shared this morning's experience with me. What is it so interesting about a red rosebud this morning;
unopened, yet having been picked from its plant, I wonder. Could it simply be a gift of love?
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Um...the fact that you felt the need to comment on it to begin with unintentionally demonstrates a certain amount of irritation towards it.
when you can slip your hand into the donation plate...
actually, this is a valid question though. as long as the church and those who lead it is in power, they will ask for money "for spreading the word and saving souls"... but God only ask that people give tithes, not the church to ask for it...
its not people nor the power that is th problem, it is the people in power that is...
and as long as there is people in power that think that monies flow to them freely, the more that these people want...
why? cause people, as humanity and as human emotional intelligence goes, are greedy...
more fame + more money = more power (<< or a sense of empowerment)
and thats what it boils down to...
but the article talks about the dying out of religious sectors of self-claimed christians... and how those numbers are dropping...
it could be because the secular sector is starting to over-power that balance of law vs. religion, legality vs. morality...
the author's prose uses quite a bit of optimistic syntax, but the message itself seems bad...
Satya, that was actually addressed for you. For fear of being taken into the mainline upper thread, I left your name out. Should have expected something like that from the peanut gallery on Easter. I see I am being blocked from quoting you again. My computer at my other location with the routers does not have that problem. I must get this one fixed.
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