The coming storm against INFJ's...

[muir]

No, psychiatrists aren't just guessing. There are certain things in the human body that you can measure (hormons, neurotransmitters) which cause or at least contribute to certain illnesses. And there is medicine to help people with psychological diseases. Though it doesn't help 100% of them, it does help in the majority of cases. It's the same thing as medicine. Don't tell me that its not scientific. Some part of psychology and psychiatry may be pseudo-scientific, yes. But you just can't say that it's not scientific in general.
Psychology works in so many cases - to mention an example, mass behavior. Because psychologists can predict mass behavior, they are able to prevent that in concerts or other mass events, people are being stamped down. This works, obviously.

One big problem as i see it is the one identified by the psychologist in the clip i posted above. He says that psychiatry is used as an instrument of control

He is right

There is that saying by Stalin isn't there about how elections work: ''it doesn't matter who does the voting, it only matters who does the counting''

Well its the same with psychiatry. Whoever is deciding the norms gets to decide what is going to be rewarded and what is going to get penalised

An example would be the recent proposals over gun ownership. The powers that be are afraid of gun owners because they know that the US was created by armed citizens challenging the authority of a corrupt and oppressive government so they want to take everyones guns away.

They can't just pass laws that do that as people would rise up so they have to try and get these things in the back door

So they say: ''gun owners should be evaluated by psychiatrists who will evaluate who is safe to own a gun''

Lot's of liberal folks living in safe areas will hear that and think ''yes that makes sense. That way the crazy people won't get guns''

But if they actually exercised their ability for critical thought they would realise that criminals don't buy their guns legally so psyche tests wouldn't stop them getting guns and what would in fact happen is that the government would hand pick the evaluators and tell them that they don't want anyone who is a military vet (tarined at handling weapons effectively and many vets turn anti-authority once they leave the army and realise how they were duped) or a trade union member, or a civil rights activist or a member of any political group who is against the government and/or its policies and so on

That way they would use psychiatry to disarm all their opponents under the excuse of keeping guns out of the hands of crazy people (who could just buy a gun on the black market)

They'll just say that vets are suffering from PTSD and that trade unions and civil rights activists are suffering from Oppositional Defiant Disorder and stop them holding guns and so on

Psyhciatry is used to control people and if we aren't wise to that we can leave the door open to very nasty people getting their way

 

[LucyJr]

One big problem as i see it is the one identified by the psychologist in the clip i posted above. He says that psychiatry is used as an instrument of control

He is right

There is that saying by Stalin isn't there about how elections work: ''it doesn't matter who does the voting, it only matters who does the counting''

Well its the same with psychiatry. Whoever is deciding the norms gets to decide what is going to be rewarded and what is going to get penalised

An example would be the recent proposals over gun ownership. The powers that be are afraid of gun owners because they know that the US was created by armed citizens challenging the authority of a corrupt and oppressive government so they want to take everyones guns away.

They can't just pass laws that do that as people would rise up so they have to try and get these things in the back door

So they say: ''gun owners should be evaluated by psychiatrists who will evaluate who is safe to own a gun''

Lot's of liberal folks living in safe areas will hear that and think ''yes that makes sense. That way the crazy people won't get guns''

But if they actually exercised their ability for critical thought they would realise that criminals don't buy their guns legally so psyche tests wouldn't stop them getting guns and what would in fact happen is that the government would hand pick the evaluators and tell them that they don't want anyone who is a military vet (tarined at handling weapons effectively and many vets turn anti-authority once they leave the army and realise how they were duped) or a tarde union member or a member of any political group who is against the government and/or its policies and so on

That way they would use psychiatry to disarm all their opponents under the excuse of keeping guns out of the hands of crazy people (who could just buy a gun on the black market)

They'll just say that vets are suffering from PTSD and that trade unions and civil rights activists are suffering from Oppositional Defiant Disorder and stop them holding guns and so on

Psyhciatry is used to control people and if we aren't wise to that we can leave the door open to very nasty people getting their way

With the help pf psychiatry and their imaginary mental disorders, they can internate any "patient" in seconds into a mental asylum, and they have all the motives to do so, because they have invented the mental diseases. At this moment, everything is ok. But in the future years, all this job they done with DSV-5 and all their diagnosis, will show its true color. This is alsp history, nazi history and even American history. Its just that people are to blind to see where these things are going.

 

[New Dawn Fades]

I posted once a video in the Vaccines debate thread, a TED talk where a journalist speaks about how people confuse science with other stuff, for example the government or certain brands.

But science is no brand. Science is a process, a way of thinking. It's not Psychiatry itself that wants to control developments in our society. Psychiatry just wants to investigate into human psychological illnesses. The problem is that people use Psychiatry and Psychology to manipulate people. But we should never take this as a reason for rejecting them as a science.

The video: http://www.ted.com/talks/michael_specter_the_danger_of_science_denial

 

[muir]

With the help pf psychiatry and their imaginary mental disorders, they can internate any "patient" in seconds into a mental asylum, and they have all the motives to do so, because they have invented the mental diseases. At this moment, everything is ok. But in the future years, all this job they done with DSV-5 and all their diagnosis, will show its true color. This is alsp history, nazi history and even American history. Its just that people are to blind to see where these things are going.

Absolutely man....a lot of people are not facing upto this at the moment

There is ample evidence rise of a police state but many people are ignoring it. Its easy to see now how groups like the nazis grabbed power....most people just had their heads in the sand

 

[muir]

I posted once a video in the Vaccines debate thread, a TED talk where a journalist speaks about how people confuse science with other stuff, for example the government or certain brands.

But science is no brand. Science is a process, a way of thinking. It's not Psychiatry itself that wants to control developments in our society. Psychiatry just wants to investigate into human psychological illnesses. The problem is that people use Psychiatry and Psychology to manipulate people. But we should never take this as a reason for rejecting them as a science.

The video: http://www.ted.com/talks/michael_specter_the_danger_of_science_denial

You can't generalise like that

Each psychiatrist will have a different agenda

Also different interest groups from outside of psychiatry will want to use psychiatry to augment their arguments. So the powerful people who want to control society will pay psychiatrists who are sensitive to their cause and fund and publish their research so that they can skew the figures in a way that provides a favourable 'study' to support their argument that we should all be controlled by them

This is why there are always scientists on both sides of all debates all supplying their 'evidence'

Not all scientists just want to explore and discover for the sake of science and/or the greater good of humanity...some have agendas. Look at nazi experimentation in the camps. Look at all the human experimentation done by the CIA and US government....its all been harmful to people and it is being done to find effective ways to harm society as a whole

Concerning rejecting them as a science....i think there are discearnable patterns and that the bigger the sample the more credibilty the existence of a pattern gains but there are also many factors as to what cause certain patterns that the scientists might not acknowledge

For example some people look at big corporations and say they are 'successful' when they announce big profits. But they don't take into account the externalities for example the effect of the corporation on the environment or on people...it doesn't factor those in

Another example would be the inflation figures that get published in the corporate media. The indexes they use to calculate inflation don't take into account food or energy which are two of the most important things to the guy and gal on the street. Any regular person on the street can observe with their own eyes that the costs of food and energy are going UP but the 'scientific' data of the corporate media (which is skewed) argues there is no or little inflation

It's all very complex...things aren't always as they appear on the surface

You could do a psychological happiness study on people from two areas. You could then publish that data and say ''look these people in this area are drastically less happy then the people from this area''. You could then use that study to justify major socio-political and economic restructuring of that area

However if the unhappy group had just been involved in a war several years earlier that alone would account for the lower levels of happiness and the restructuring might be totally unjustified and actually damaging to the people

So there are many factors to consider and 'science' can be easily skewed to fit the interests of interest groups

 

[LucyJr]

I posted once a video in the Vaccines debate thread, a TED talk where a journalist speaks about how people confuse science with other stuff, for example the government or certain brands.

But science is no brand. Science is a process, a way of thinking. It's not Psychiatry itself that wants to control developments in our society. Psychiatry just wants to investigate into human psychological illnesses. The problem is that people use Psychiatry and Psychology to manipulate people. But we should never take this as a reason for rejecting them as a science.

The video: http://www.ted.com/talks/michael_specter_the_danger_of_science_denial

A way of thinking is a philosophy, not a science.
Science is something very specific.

 

[DonTaushMe]

When i was tyring to find various articles online about the 'extrovert ideal' one of the random sites i cam across was a design site. That site was obviously looking at our society through the lens of design...as in designing spaces for living. The article there was making the point that the way our public living spaces are designed are made that way to suit extroverts

That's a pretty random example of what i'm talking about but i think it shows in how many ways the pressure can be upped on certain types

I have spoken about capitalism here a lot and about how i think it degrades people. When i graduated and was thinking about what i want to do for a living i ran through many different possible career options. What i noticed when i looked into various areas was that even jobs that looked like they were good honest jobs on the surface where actually bent out of shape by the system to forward the systems agenda.

One of the key criteria for me in job hunting is that i didn't want to do anything that screwed over other people in any way. When you factor externalities into jobs as well to take into account their direct and indirect affect on the world it actually drastically reduces the number of jobs in a capitalist society that were then suitable.

What i'm saying is that a system that is totally based around PROFIT has a habit of degrading everything else and anyone who engages with it

It's not a system for conscientious people. Now you could look at the figures i posted above about the earnings of different types and you could say ''well the INFJ's aren't doing so great'' but is that because INFJ's aren't smart or is it because INFJ's have taken less well paid jobs in order to live in accordance with their ideals?

So you could judge 'success' in purely monetary terms and say ''INFJ's aren't particularly successful'' or you could apply a whole different criteria to success. You could for example value other things such as: spirituality (how spiritually fulfilled do different types feel?), happiness, health, family life, inner peace, usefulness to society, how much they help other people, how little do they damage the planet etc

If you worked by that different criteria you might suddenly see INFJ's as highly successful people.

But we don't as a society think that way....the dominant culture is a PROFIT based system and that is why we have all the problems we do and the constant war and strife and so on. Our society is riddled with problems...it's not 'successful'

I don't think viewing things this way is 'crazy'...i think putting profit before everything else is crazy

K, what that entire explanation says to me is 'I am financially unsuccessful and it is the systems fault.' You don't want to play by the rules, you don't understand how playing by the rules can open doors for you to get to where you actually want to be, and because you don't want to you are unsuccessful and somehow it is to no fault of your own. That is what that entire explanation says to me and I have a huge problem with that.

Where I have even more of a problem with this is that I know kids who think this way, they think 'jobs hurt others, I refuse to do that' and what they do is they have their hands in the parents pockets and live the rest of their life piling up debt on their parents. That kid I loath, he has only his mother who pays for everything. That woman is in piles of debt because of all of her kids, but mostly him. He chose to go to a trade school because he wasn't cutting it in a normal college. Now that's all fine and well, he has a degree, however his mother carries that 100+ thousand dollars of debt. When he gets a job he doesn't pay her back, he buy toys and gadgets and crap for himself. So while he doesn't want to hurt others, he is crippling his mother.

If you don't want to hurt others, go be Amish. Farm your own food, make your own cloths, build your own shelter and rely on yourself -that is a sure fire way to not hurt others. However, you wont ever do that because you have the internet, you have distractions and you enjoy them. How you get your money and who you lean on in that process, I don't want to know. From the sounds of it, what I can gather on who you are as a person, I don't respect you.

No those are your words not mine. I didn't say people in general would fear INFJ's

I do however think the people who engineer our society are threatened by INFJ's yes....because we don't fit so well into their nice neat tidy boxes. In that film 'divergent' the 'divergent' people are exterminated because they don't fit into any of the 5 narrow factions

People's perceptions ARE shaped by their culture however and if they are told that divergent people are a threat to society then they will end up self policing their fellow citizens

"I do however think the people who engineer our society are threatened by INFJ's yes" -this is what I mean by you saying that people fear INFJs as this is the only set of people you seem to talk about. The end result is you think others think you are a threat to them. This is delusional thinking.

Well.....talking from my own experience INFJ's only step up into a leadership role when people are struggling and directionless...an INFJ will then step up into the void and be accepted in that role. Otherwise they prefer to quietly but steadily work from the sidelines

They are not sharp elbowed

So i think people in general only listen to INFJ's in a leadership role when they are lost and kind of desperate. So look at Ghandi....he was just a lawyer but when the people got desperate enough that the fear of reprisals for their actions was outweighed by their current misery then they developed the political WILL to act and at that point they were willing to listen to an INFJ who knew the lay of the land and was able to eloquently set it out for people

I stepped up into a leadership role in my work place in a crisis even though i was one of the most junior people there. Before that it hadn't even crossed my mind to do that; before that I just quietly and respectfully went about my business. But when the crisis struck everyone was in a lot of fear and distress but no one knew what to do. I had some clear understanding of what was going on and what we could do about it and something inside me pushed me forward at that point when before that my natural instinct was to hang back and let others step forward. I filled the boots when it needed to be done and stepped back again when it was over

In this apocalyptic scenario you have devised, INFJs would step up and be leaders because people would be struggling to understand. There is no 'well' or 'but' to that. You have painted a scenario, I have told you the reality of what would happen.

And do you really think people didn't admire Gandhi before his legacy? That they didn't know him as Gandhi the lawyer -or just Gandhi- before hand? People will follow those they admire. Gandhi didn't just arrive out of thin air. People didn't just suddenly come together 'we need a leader we need a leader' and grabbed the first guy they saw. If you are not someone people admire, people will not follow you. Gandhi was someone people admired well before his legacy and continue to well after.

Most INFJ's aren't trying to take a leadership role...they do it if it needs to be done

The people trying to take leadership roles are the sharp elbowed types who are all confidence and little ability; to see examples of that type watch 'the apprentice' on TV...you'll see lots of people whos confidence outweighs their ability...or to quote a line from one of the cheesiest films ever made: ''their ego's writing checks their body can't cash''

Again, I was referencing your scenario. I know INFJs hang back.

Well we're agreed on that point

But the point i was making is that in our society there are places where decisions are made that have a massive impact on our society. If we want those decisions to be made in a way that is going to be good for society then we need to make sure ALL the personality types are represented in those places

However that's not the case because things like psychometric testing prevent people getting in the door and anyone who can slip through the psychometric testing net will then be destroyed by the culture within that place that has been created to be a toxic environment for some types

See recent film 'the wolf of wallstreet' to get an idea of how a culture can be created in a place

An environment is only as toxic as you make it. If you choose to believe this, if you choose to rule yourself with these kinds of devastating ideals, you choose to cripple yourself. Your potential in what you could do in life will not come to anywhere near what it could be, that is your own fault. It is not 'I'm here and I see injustice so I don't want to play anymore' this is life. You see injustice, fix it! You don't know how to fix it? Look it up! The internet is right in front of you, answers are all around you. If you CHOOSE to have this marginalized idea of what life is and how you can't do anything to help it, you wont ever help it. And this is what you have chosen. This is not the fault of society or your parents or some deity, this is on you. You can go around blaming others for the rest of your life for how unhappy you are and how stuck you think you are but it wont un-stick you, it wont make you a happier person, and people will go away from you.

 

[sprinkles]

I raged 10/10 would post again

[video=youtube;9SboyoievYU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SboyoievYU[/video]

 

[Basildon]

I'm not your monkey. Watch the video and learn my perspective for yourself instead of listening to fools.

Or muppet even! Your videos are very interesting DJ. The rant about INFJ impostors is quite hilarious! I try to mimic the way you start it but for the life of me, I cannot keep a straight face. I see hyperbole in some of your comments. These are good to really emphasize differences in regards to functions. I think some take this stuff too seriously. I am always reminded of Bruce Lee's comments of being like water when it comes to what we assimilate internally. We must guard it vigorously, but never be afraid to revisit and revise, even if it shakes the construct. Sadly, truth and logic is not the ultimate aim of the human brain...survival is, and it will do what it feels necessary to ensure that what we hold internally will make the external world inhabitable and sensible. In that way, it conspires against us every waking moment and in every interaction with the external world. Like the tussle between Superego and id, Ni and Ti, thinking vs feeling.

Your observations on Se and INFJ were interesting and it has thrown me back into further study of the functions for both INFP and INFJ. I have tested all INFJ in MMDI, MBTI, Keirsey over the years...studied the Enneagram through Daniho, Helen Palmer, Dr. Naranjo, Karen Horney, Riso and Hudson, SimilarMinds...but a further study of Se has virtually sealed it for me, though since it is an inductive process, one will never be absolutely certain that a type is a total match. I am currently compiling a long list of quirky things that I have done and still do. Everytime I notice something peculiar, I write it down.

I do find much more information now than was available ten years ago. It has become more refined and much more popular. It was no great thing to see yourself as INFJ back then, heck, hardly anyone even cared to know. Now it seems not unlike Enneagram 4 vs. 9, where the similarities seem so close that high self-awareness will be the only thing that finally cracks the code.

I do take umbrage on your video with the INFJ girl however. INFJ can be found in other places, but some don't really want to be found at all. The most introverted ones like myself would not be caught doing selfie videos. It would require too many "takes" to even contemplate, not to mention I would be a neurotic mess without MUCH preparation...like Richard Nixon, who actually prep'd himself for interactions with his staff. Fascinating President and a good study on how what is bad in a person can coopt what is good. Anyways, keep the videos coming on YouTube, they are appreciated.

 

[muir]

K, what that entire explanation says to me is 'I am financially unsuccessful and it is the systems fault.'

No i am financially successful and I doubt there are many people my age who are debt free like i am

You don't want to play by the rules,

Not true...it depends on the rule

you don't understand how playing by the rules can open doors for you to get to where you actually want to be, and because you don't want to you are unsuccessful and somehow it is to no fault of your own.

Lol no i think i AM successful. I have my own business, i own my home outright, i have two degrees, have lived a varied life, travelled the world and done things that would blow your mind

That is what that entire explanation says to me and I have a huge problem with that.

The problem is that you are projecting this image of this kid you know onto me

Where I have even more of a problem with this is that I know kids who think this way, they think 'jobs hurt others, I refuse to do that' and what they do is they have their hands in the parents pockets and live the rest of their life piling up debt on their parents.

I'm not a kid, i do not burden my parents in any way and i have never refused to do any jobs. I have done many many different jobs. I have washed dishes, cleaned old peoples dentures, wiped disabled peoples asses, shovelled shit, dug ditches and done manual work that would break most people in two and worked with convicted villains (legally of course!)

That kid I loath, he has only his mother who pays for everything.

Yeah..i'm not that kid so stop talking to me like i am. Also you said you thought that kid wasn't an INFJ so why do you keep bringing him up?

That woman is in piles of debt because of all of her kids, but mostly him. He chose to go to a trade school because he wasn't cutting it in a normal college. Now that's all fine and well, he has a degree, however his mother carries that 100+ thousand dollars of debt. When he gets a job he doesn't pay her back, he buy toys and gadgets and crap for himself. So while he doesn't want to hurt others, he is crippling his mother.

He should repay his mum...however at the same time i am not going to blind myself to the fact that the world that young folk are growing up in now is very different to the world we and the previous generation grew up in. There are less job opportunites for a start and the housing bubble has put house prices out of reach for many first time buyers.

If you don't want to hurt others, go be Amish. Farm your own food, make your own cloths, build your own shelter and rely on yourself -that is a sure fire way to not hurt others.

You don't have to be amish to do that and i DO do certain things already and am working on going entriely off grid. There are certain systemic blocks to that though. For example the planning department here is very much against wooden homes which it calls in its literature 'shacks'

This is nonsesne though as many countries around the world have beautiful wooden vernacular architecture. The real reason they don't want people to build wooden homes here is because they are CHEAP and they want people hooked into 20-30 year mortgages because this is a debt based economy

In the US they are even stopping people using solar power and collecting their own rainwater. You need to understand that the corporations do not want people to be self sufficient...they want everyone dependent on the corporations and that is what they bribe the politicians to legislate to achieve

However, you wont ever do that because you have the internet, you have distractions and you enjoy them.

Nonsense, don't tell me what i will and won't do you know nothing about me

How you get your money and who you lean on in that process, I don't want to know. From the sounds of it, what I can gather on who you are as a person, I don't respect you.

My work is sustainable and vital to the society i live in. I don't 'lean' on anyone

"I do however think the people who engineer our society are threatened by INFJ's yes" -this is what I mean by you saying that people fear INFJs as this is the only set of people you seem to talk about. The end result is you think others think you are a threat to them. This is delusional thinking.

There is nothing delusional about my thinking.

If you watch the videos i post here you will find that there are some extremely intelligent, extremely qualified and extremely well informed and experienced people all saying the things i am saying....it's just that the corproate media doesn't give them a voice because what they are saying goes against the corporate agenda

In this apocalyptic scenario you have devised, INFJs would step up and be leaders because people would be struggling to understand. There is no 'well' or 'but' to that. You have painted a scenario, I have told you the reality of what would happen.

I think INFJ's ARE stepping up...i post their stuff here all the time

And do you really think people didn't admire Gandhi before his legacy? That they didn't know him as Gandhi the lawyer -or just Gandhi- before hand? People will follow those they admire. Gandhi didn't just arrive out of thin air. People didn't just suddenly come together 'we need a leader we need a leader' and grabbed the first guy they saw. If you are not someone people admire, people will not follow you. Gandhi was someone people admired well before his legacy and continue to well after.

No he wasn't even living in India for much of his legal career...he was living in africa.

He stepped up because he knew how the imperial game was played and was able to articulate that to people

Again, I was referencing your scenario. I know INFJs hang back.

An environment is only as toxic as you make it.

So it was the jews that made the concentration camps toxic?

You are living in another world to me

If you choose to believe this, if you choose to rule yourself with these kinds of devastating ideals, you choose to cripple yourself.

I am not crippled. I have achieved everything i have set out to acheive so far and i'm not done yet

Your potential in what you could do in life will not come to anywhere near what it could be, that is your own fault. It is not 'I'm here and I see injustice so I don't want to play anymore' this is life. You see injustice, fix it! You don't know how to fix it? Look it up! The internet is right in front of you, answers are all around you. If you CHOOSE to have this marginalized idea of what life is and how you can't do anything to help it, you wont ever help it. And this is what you have chosen. This is not the fault of society or your parents or some deity, this is on you. You can go around blaming others for the rest of your life for how unhappy you are and how stuck you think you are but it wont un-stick you, it wont make you a happier person, and people will go away from you.

I'm not unhappy...except about the wider problems out there

You are in a different world to me if you can't see the problems out there. What do you think people are protesting about everywhere?

This situation isn't going to get better, its going to get worse

I am already doing things differently in my life to try and be the change i want to see in the world (as ghandi would say) and i will implement even more changes in time

You seem to have this image of me in your head as being like this young kid you are talking about...you hav even condescendingly called me 'kid'

 

[muir]

Or muppet even! Your videos are very interesting DJ. The rant about INFJ impostors is quite hilarious! I try to mimic the way you start it but for the life of me, I cannot keep a straight face. I see hyperbole in some of your comments. These are good to really emphasize differences in regards to functions. I think some take this stuff too seriously. I am always reminded of Bruce Lee's comments of being like water when it comes to what we assimilate internally. We must guard it vigorously, but never be afraid to revisit and revise, even if it shakes the construct. Sadly, truth and logic is not the ultimate aim of the human brain...survival is, and it will do what it feels necessary to ensure that what we hold internally will make the external world inhabitable and sensible. In that way, it conspires against us every waking moment and in every interaction with the external world. Like the tussle between Superego and id, Ni and Ti, thinking vs feeling.

Your observations on Se and INFJ were interesting and it has thrown me back into further study of the functions for both INFP and INFJ. I have tested all INFJ in MMDI, MBTI, Keirsey over the years...studied the Enneagram through Daniho, Helen Palmer, Dr. Naranjo, Karen Horney, Riso and Hudson, SimilarMinds...but a further study of Se has virtually sealed it for me, though since it is an inductive process, one will never be absolutely certain that a type is a total match. I am currently compiling a long list of quirky things that I have done and still do. Everytime I notice something peculiar, I write it down.

I do find much more information now than was available ten years ago. It has become more refined and much more popular. It was no great thing to see yourself as INFJ back then, heck, hardly anyone even cared to know. Now it seems not unlike Enneagram 4 vs. 9, where the similarities seem so close that high self-awareness will be the only thing that finally cracks the code.

I do take umbrage on your video with the INFJ girl however. INFJ can be found in other places, but some don't really want to be found at all. The most introverted ones like myself would not be caught doing selfie videos. It would require too many "takes" to even contemplate, not to mention I would be a neurotic mess without MUCH preparation...like Richard Nixon, who actually prep'd himself for interactions with his staff. Fascinating President and a good study on how what is bad in a person can coopt what is good. Anyways, keep the videos coming on YouTube, they are appreciated.

Bruce Lee did talk about being like the water...but his core personality was probably fairly set

If it wasn't he wouldn't have maintained the discipline to train and diet the way he did

Kung fu talks about adapting by meeting hard energy with soft and soft energy with hard hence flowing like the water

 

[DonTaushMe]

No i am financially successful and I doubt there are many people my age who are debt free like i am



Not true...it depends on the rule



Lol no i think i AM successful. I have my own business, i own my home outright, i have two degrees, have lived a varied life, travelled the world and done things that would blow your mind



The problem is that you are projecting this image of this kid you know onto me



I'm not a kid, i do not burden my parents in any way and i have never refused to do any jobs. I have done many many different jobs. I have washed dishes, cleaned old peoples dentures, wiped disabled peoples asses, shovelled shit, dug ditches and done manual work that would break most people in two and worked with convicted villains (legally of course!)



Yeah..i'm not that kid so stop talking to me like i am. Also you said you thought that kid wasn't an INFJ so why do you keep bringing him up?



He should repay his mum...however at the same time i am not going to blind myself to the fact that the world that young folk are growing up in now is very different to the world we and the previous generation grew up in. There are less job opportunites for a start and the housing bubble has put house prices out of reach for many first time buyers.



You don't have to be amish to do that and i DO do certain things already and am working on going entriely off grid. There are certain systemic blocks to that though. For example the planning department here is very much against wooden homes which it calls in its literature 'shacks'

This is nonsesne though as many countries around the world have beautiful wooden vernacular architecture. The real reason they don't want people to build wooden homes here is because they are CHEAP and they want people hooked into 20-30 year mortgages because this is a debt based economy

In the US they are even stopping people using solar power and collecting their own rainwater. You need to understand that the corporations do not want people to be self sufficient...they want everyone dependent on the corporations and that is what they bribe the politicians to legislate to achieve



Nonsense, don't tell me what i will and won't do you know nothing about me



My work is sustainable and vital to the society i live in. I don't 'lean' on anyone



There is nothing delusional about my thinking.

If you watch the videos i post here you will find that there are some extremely intelligent, extremely qualified and extremely well informed and experienced people all saying the things i am saying....it's just that the corproate media doesn't give them a voice because what they are saying goes against the corporate agenda



I think INFJ's ARE stepping up...i post their stuff here all the time



No he wasn't even living in India for much of his legal career...he was living in africa.

He stepped up because he knew how the imperial game was played and was able to articulate that to people



So it was the jews that made the concentration camps toxic?

You are living in another world to me



I am not crippled. I have achieved everything i have set out to acheive so far and i'm not done yet



I'm not unhappy...except about the wider problems out there

You are in a different world to me if you can't see the problems out there. What do you think people are protesting about everywhere?

This situation isn't going to get better, its going to get worse

I am already doing things differently in my life to try and be the change i want to see in the world (as ghandi would say) and i will implement even more changes in time

You seem to have this image of me in your head as being like this young kid you are talking about...you hav even condescendingly called me 'kid'

I call people kid when I don't respect them.

You know the phrase 'actions are louder than words?' Well I have seen no actions from you, only read your words and you have many, all of which give the impression you are some conspiracy fanatic who spends all his time online screaming 'the end is nigh!' I do not know you in real life, though I don't believe your life is what you say it is and won't. You may be able to prove some of these things to me however you won't. From what I can tell the time you spend online on this forum is in debates about how you think the world is going to end, or is ending. I'm not going to believe a man I don't respect. And that is why I call you kid.

And don't even begin to compare yourself with Jews in concentration camps, you are not someone locked up being tortured, you are torturing yourself with your bat crazy irrational imagination. Spend all this time looking up reason to support your conspiracy claims, have you gone outside and talked to the people? Do you care to hear their story if it is not in tune with your own? Don't answer these questions to me, I'm done with this conversation. I don't need to indulge you with some brash fantasy you have of me telling you 'it's ok, I understand and I agree' because I don't agree yet I understand all too well and will never respect people like you.

And I bring up that kid who claims he is an INFJ because he is pathetic and reminds me of you. Whether you two are both actually INFJs, god I hope not.

I won't be responding to anymore of your posts after this. We can both thank me for that.

 

[muir]

I call people kid when I don't respect them.

You know the phrase 'actions are louder than words?' Well I have seen no actions from you, only read your words and you have many, all of which give the impression you are some conspiracy fanatic who spends all his time online screaming 'the end is nigh!' I do not know you in real life, though I don't believe your life is what you say it is and won't. You may be able to prove some of these things to me however you won't. From what I can tell the time you spend online on this forum is in debates about how you think the world is going to end, or is ending. I'm not going to believe a man I don't respect. And that is why I call you kid.

And don't even begin to compare yourself with Jews in concentration camps, you are not someone locked up being tortured, you are torturing yourself with your bat crazy irrational imagination. Spend all this time looking up reason to support your conspiracy claims, have you gone outside and talked to the people? Do you care to hear their story if it is not in tune with your own? Don't answer these questions to me, I'm done with this conversation. I don't need to indulge you with some brash fantasy you have of me telling you 'it's ok, I understand and I agree' because I don't agree yet I understand all too well and will never respect people like you.

And I bring up that kid who claims he is an INFJ because he is pathetic and reminds me of you. Whether you two are both actually INFJs, god I hope not.

I won't be responding to anymore of your posts after this. We can both thank me for that.

Of course you've seen no actions from me...i'm talking to you over the internet

I have no reason to lie to you

I'm actually optomistic about the world...but only if people can pull their heads out of their butts

But you seem a little confused. First of all you start talking to me like im this person who has nothing in common with me and calling me 'kid' and referring to the other person as 'kid' and then you start criticising me because you haven't seen any of the things i've done in my life. Also i did not compare myself to the jews in the concentration camps...i said they did not make their envrionment toxic (the nazis did) to show how youre statement that we make our environment what it is is incorrect...sometimes we do and sometimes other people make the environment what it is

Bizarre

I'm glad you're bowing out of the thread though you don't seem to have anything meaningful to say...just lots of venom

Everything about you screams 'ATTITUDE'...even your username: 'don't touch me'

 

[barbad0s]

If any of you have watched EJArendee's videos, you will realize that the OP has created a complete 180 degree inversion of the truth. EJArendee likes INFJs and INFPs. His thoughts on type in his ideas have also evolved a great deal over time.

 

[j654dgj7]

If any of you have watched EJArendee's videos, you will realize that the OP has created a complete 180 degree inversion of the truth. EJArendee likes INFJs and INFPs. His thoughts on type in his ideas have also evolved a great deal over time.

This! I've seen him speaking positively about INFJ's and INFP's multiple times.

 

[muir]

If any of you have watched EJArendee's videos, you will realize that the OP has created a complete 180 degree inversion of the truth. EJArendee likes INFJs and INFPs. His thoughts on type in his ideas have also evolved a great deal over time.

'evolved over time'

So the OP is not necessarily wrong about what has been said in the past?

 

[muir]

I remember this video coming out after the one that caused the initial reaction on this forum (the thread of which i can't find)

[video=youtube;Sg4auiUt2-o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sg4auiUt2-o[/video]

Where he is very critical of INFJ's dogs!

 

[barbad0s]

The few points that the OP made which were true were taken out of context so that they were twisted 180. For instance, what he said about EJ saying he would eat testicles or whatever if he were an INFJ, was in regards to some commenters who were pinning EJArendee's type as INFJ. EJ, in saying that, meant that it would be crazy for him to be an INFJ in an "If __ then I'll eat my hat" way--not that INFJs eat nuts or would be "gay". So, completely taken out of context in order to fabricate a negative image.

Some of the things he posts about INFJs are tongue-in-cheek, like in that 'INFJs...why' video. They are not meant to spread hate. They are meant as a gentle tease done in humour to highlight his own opinion and impression of INFJs, since he in fact really likes INFJs; that fact has pretty much been a focal point of his entire channel. That video is the one time he's yanked on the pigtails of the girl he likes, figuratively. This is not the only type he's made videos or comments about in this manner either--he has done this with every single type. His views on type have also evolved over time...not that he has ever talked about disliking INFJs or thinking poorly of them, but the point is that his views aren't set in stone and have evolved a lot over several years (which EJ, by the way, has announced in his channel's videos multiple times recently), and the OP's points, on top of being baseless, were all fixated upon his older videos.

 

[muir]

The few points that the OP made which were true were taken out of context so that they were twisted 180. For instance, what he said about EJ saying he would eat testicles or whatever if he were an INFJ, was in regards to some commenters who were pinning EJArendee's type as INFJ. EJ, in saying that, meant that it would be crazy for him to be an INFJ in an "If __ then I'll eat my hat" way--not that INFJs eat nuts or would be "gay". So, completely taken out of context in order to fabricate a negative image.

Some of the things he posts about INFJs are tongue-in-cheek, like in that 'INFJs...why' video. They are not meant to spread hate. They are meant as a gentle tease done in humour to highlight his own opinion and impression of INFJs, since he in fact really likes INFJs; that fact has pretty much been a focal point of his entire channel. That video is the one time he's yanked on the pigtails of the girl he likes, figuratively. This is not the only type he's made videos or comments about in this manner either--he has done this with every single type. His views on type have also evolved over time...not that he has ever talked about disliking INFJs or thinking poorly of them, but the point is that his views aren't set in stone and have evolved a lot over several years (which EJ, by the way, has announced in his channel's videos multiple times recently), and the OP's points, on top of being baseless, were all fixated upon his older videos.

I'm not wanting to give Djrandee a hard time. Its like i said to him i have mostly been speaking about the other aspect of the OP's comment which were relating to general prejudice against certain types (eg the whole 'extrovert ideal' thing)

 

[barbad0s]

Ok.