The 10,000 hour rule

[Satya]

To achieve genius level mastery of a skill, one must practice it for approximately 10,000 hours. This is a general rule of human psychology that not even those with natural talent are exempt from. Where Mozart was composing at the age of 6, he did not produce his first piece of masterful work until he was in his twenties. Bobby Fischer took 9 years to achieve the status of chessmaster. Bill Gates, who had the extraordinary opportunity to practice programming on a time share computer in 8th grade when most colleges did not even have the technology, was able to aquire over 10,000 hours of programming experience before he dropped out of Harvard his sophmore year to start his company. The Beatles had over a thousand gigs, an extraordinary number even by today's standard, before they ever hit it big. Buddhist monks are required to meditate for 10,000 hours before they can be promoted in their order. And it goes on in on in every single feild.

Mental, physical, spiritual...it doesn't matter, you need 10,000 hours to be capable of performing on a world stage.

So my question is what do you think you could commit to for 10,000 hours of hard practice? That equates to about 40 hours a week for 5 years. What skill or skills would you dedicate yourself to learning? Is that much sacrafice even worth it to you?

Notes taken from Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell.

 

[Shai Gar]

killing people

or

designing things

 

[Satya]

killing people

Unless you are planning on joining a military service that is currently engaged in genocide, I don't think there is much chance of getting 10,000 hours of practice killing people.

designing things

Could you be more specific? Edison went through thousands of attempts just to get a filament for a light bulb.

 

[Shai Gar]

yes. Edison was a moron.

“If Edison had a needle to find in a haystack, he would proceed at once with the diligence of the bee to examine straw after straw until he found the object of his search. I was a sorry witness of such doings, knowing that a little theory and calculation would have saved him ninety per cent of his labor.”

 

[Shai Gar]

“Before I put a sketch on paper, the whole idea is worked out mentally. In my mind I change the construction, make improvements, and even operate the device. Without ever having drawn a sketch I can give the measurements of all parts to workmen, and when completed all these parts will fit, just as certainly as though I had made the actual drawings. It is immaterial to me whether I run my machine in my mind or test it in my shop. The inventions I have conceived in this way have always worked. In thirty years there has not been a single exception. My first electric motor, the vacuum wireless light, my turbine engine and many other devices have all been developed in exactly this way.”

That is how I design things, and I design everything.

 

[Satya]

yes. Edison was a moron.

As I recall, Tesla worked for Edison and later became a heated competitor. Before that he had worked at a telegraph office, and before that he had went to school to study alternating current. He was no exception to the 10,000 hour rule as he often had to work constantly tinkering to accomplish his designs and redesigns. No man likes to admit that it took countless hours of practice to achieve a certain level of success.

That is how I design things, and I design everything.

30 years of practice is quite a bit more than 10,000 hours.

 

[Shai Gar]

You quoted edison as an example, I shot down edisons style.

He didn't go to school to study AC, he was the man who created it.

 

[Satya]

You quoted edison as an example, I shot down edisons style.

He didn't go to school to study AC, he was the man who created it.

I was talking about Tesla, who you quoted. And you didn't really shoot down anything. You provided his competitors opinion on it. I don't think Tesla's style was quite as different as he wanted people to think.

 

[Quinlan]

There goes my chances of being a genius, I would tire of it and find something else.


I know! Being a father, a genius father, sweet!

 

[Shai Gar]

I was talking about Tesla, who you quoted. And you didn't really shoot down anything. You provided his competitors opinion on it. I don't think Tesla's style was quite as different as he wanted people to think.

It's pretty silly to think of Tesla as a competitor. Edison thought of him as such, but Nikola didn't. He simply considered himself an engineer and meta-physicist that was trying to build a new world, and discover the universe. His opinion is one I agree with, it shoots it down accurately.

I think Jesus Christ was real and rides a unicorn. Of course, I can't prove that, so I'm just going to say "I think"

 

[Satya]

There goes my chances of being a genius, I would tire of it and find something else.

That is exactly why it is best to start young. Like when you are 5 years old.

I know! Being a father, a genius father, sweet!

Hm...I don't think most parents spend 10,000 active hours with their kids. After accounting for school, sleep, time they spend with their friends, etc. I imagine it takes most parents close to the full 18 years to get in 10,000 hours, if at all. But if you want to do it that means being pretty damn involved in your kid's life.

It's pretty silly to think of Tesla as a competitor. Edison thought of him as such, but Nikola didn't. He simply considered himself an engineer and meta-physicist that was trying to build a new world, and discover the universe. His opinion is one I agree with, it shoots it down accurately.

I think Jesus Christ was real and rides a unicorn. Of course, I can't prove that, so I'm just going to say "I think"

Hard to say exactly what Tesla was like. I never met him, and I doubt you have either. Historical accounts vary. Let's just agree to disagree for the sake of this thread.

 

[Quinlan]

But you're a father 24 hours a day, therefore 416days and you're a genius!

OK maybe not, damn have to think of something else...

 

[Satya]

But you're a father 24 hours a day, therefore 416days and you're a genius!

OK maybe not, damn have to think of something else...

Yeah, I don't think you can count the hours the kid is sleeping, at school, etc. as practice. Look at experienced nannies though. The have acquired massive amounts of child rearing practice.

 

[Quinlan]

Could OCD contribute to becoming genius?

 

[Satya]

Could OCD contribute to becoming genius?

If it could be applied toward effective practice. If OCD makes you wash your hands repetitively or flick on and off a light switch, that isn't going to help you become a better basketball player or chess player.

In fact, there is a whole field of psychology emerging that is geared toward developing ways to turn disorders into strengths. It's pretty fascinating stuff.

 

[Lurker]

I'd dedicate that kind of time to music, hell I've already dedicated a significant chunk of time to it, still require direction and natural aptitude methinks.

*looks at dust on basses* Kay, not so much lately

 

[arbygil]

In order to be a genius at something, though, you have to have a talent for it as well. I could practice throwing a baseball around for 10,000 hours, but I'll never make the major leagues. I might end up playing as a pitcher a local baseball team, though.

Also? You need a good coach/mentor in your area to make sure you're progressing in your 10,000 hours. It would really suck if you assume you're doing something right and 9,999 hours down the road, someone comes up and tells you you're a talentless hack.

I don't watch the show, but I think about those potential contestants on American Idol. Some might practice all their lives but they don't know how bad they truly are until they sing for the infamous Simon Cowell.

But to answer the question...

I think I could be a writer genius. And if I wanted to put more effort into it (and had a coach) I could be a singer genius.

 

[Satya]

In order to be a genius at something, though, you have to have a talent for it as well. I could practice throwing a baseball around for 10,000 hours, but I'll never make the major leagues. I might end up playing as a pitcher a local baseball team, though.

That isn't exactly true. Talent doesn't hurt, but what is most important is opportunity and desire. That is the point of this thread. Even Michael Jordon couldn't have played basketball at the level he did if he had not had the opportunities to practice when he was very young or the interest to keep going. And even all his athletic skill was not enough to make him a superb baseball player. You are too old now to play at the Major League level since by the time you would learn the skill at that level, you would probably be past your prime. However, any child who has the minimal level of aptitude to play baseball could play at the Major League levels if he were to acquire 10,000 hours of good experience and have the right opportunities. Its the myth that you have to have some special gift that dissuades a lot of people from even trying, but the book by which I got the idea for this thread, quickly dispels that myth. I recommend the book if you honestly believe that talent is all that important.

Also? You need a good coach/mentor in your area to make sure you're progressing in your 10,000 hours. It would really suck if you assume you're doing something right and 9,999 hours down the road, someone comes up and tells you you're a talentless hack.

That is very true. You need opportunities to learn how to do it right.

I think I could be a writer genius. And if I wanted to put more effort into it (and had a coach) I could be a singer genius.

I think I could be a writer genius as well. In fact, its the only skill I think I could bring myself to practice late into the night.

 

[arbygil]

That's true, Satya - I'm definitely out of the Major Leagues! Lol. But I don't know. I think it has to be a both talent and practice to reach a genius level. We have really talented musicians at the college I work (some of the top high school musicians in the country come here), but despite some working all their lives for this moment, not all make it to the top. Not everyone plays for the New York or London Philharmonic. Not everyone grows up to be Yo-yo Ma. And on the flip side, you have children with fantastic talents who are too young to have acquired 10,000 hours in their short lives (child geniuses and prodigies).

I'm not saying someone has to have talent, but I guess it depends what we mean by "genius" and where you want to put those hours. Someone who has spent 10,000 hours writing might not be the best writer, but they could become a genius editor. If genius level simply means a knowledge of the subject then yes, I'm in total agreement with you. If it means having a genius ability to out perform the majority of people, then I'm less sure about that.

Meh - I'm not trying to split hairs! I'm really not. I may need to pick up that book. There's probably more to it than I'm seeing.

 

[Satya]

That's true, Satya - I'm definitely out of the Major Leagues! Lol. But I don't know. I think it has to be a both talent and practice to reach a genius level. We have really talented musicians at the college I work (some of the top high school musicians in the country come here), but despite some working all their lives for this moment, not all make it to the top. Not everyone plays for the New York or London Philharmonic. Not everyone grows up to be Yo-yo Ma. And on the flip side, you have children with fantastic talents who are too young to have acquired 10,000 hours in their short lives (child geniuses and prodigies).

There is actually an entire chapter in that book dedicated to the study of "talented" musicians. What they have found is that those who are world class have simply practiced more than those who are very good or just average. I sincerely suggest you read it. There have been studies dedicated to this.

Meh - I'm not trying to split hairs! I'm really not. I may need to pick up that book. There's probably more to it than I'm seeing.

It's one of those life changing books. Unfortunately it costs 27 bucks. I would lend it to you, but I already have 5 people in line to borrow it.