That's What Racism Isn't | INFJ Forum

That's What Racism Isn't

Discussion in 'News and Politics' started by VH, Aug 30, 2009.

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  1. VH

    VH Variable Hybrid

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    I normally steer clear of political topics, but I feel compelled to address this and see what sorts of reactions the INFJ community has to this. We tend to see outside and ahead of the box, especially with respect to social issues.

    I'll start with this article from the Washington Post website that a friend of mine linked on his facebook.

    No really, it's not. Racism is discriminating against someone as a person based on race.

    Attraction, especially sexual attraction is arbitrary, irrational, and unique to each individual.

    My friend who linked to this article was one of the 'horrified' people who found this woman's attraction 'morally repugnant'. When I told him that I disagreed entirely that Sacramento was racist, he accused me of not understanding racism.

    I've about had it with this witch hunt that we call racism. We've gone so far with the idea that racism is a bad thing (which it is) that we've moved into a state where the assumptions of racism have become baseless. This is one of those instances. Don't agree with me? I'll prove it.

    I asked my friend if he would date a man.

    He said no.

    I asked my friend if he would date someone who was everything they wanted in a partner, physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually, except that they were a man.

    He said no.

    I then said, "According to the logic presented above, you're sexist and bigoted against gays."

    He said, "I've got nothing against gays or gays dating one another."

    I responded, "And Sacramento doesn't have anything against black guys or anyone else dating black guys. She's not attracted to black guys just like you're not attracted to men."

    He said, "No, it's different. I'm not gay. She's straight, but not willing to date black guys because they are black."

    I said, "Would you date a midget?"

    He said, "I don't like where this is going."

    You see, my friend has mentioned more than once that the idea of midget porn freaks him out, so I followed up with, "You're not willing to date someone based on an arbitrary physical factor that was not chosen by the individual? But that doesn't make you bigoted against midgets?"

    He said, "Of course it doesn't. I have nothing against midgets, I just don't want to have sex with them." And a moment later. "Oh. Crap. You're right. Attraction doesn't have anything to do with prejudice or discrimination. Dang, this is seriously messed up. I jumped on that band wagon without even thinking about it, because I'm so sensitive to the idea of racism. If I'm doing that, then a lot of people are doing that. This sucks."

    Yes, it does.

    And for the record, I don't have any racial exclusions with respect to who I'm attracted to, but I'm not sexually attracted to men, overweight women, midgets, children, red heads, people with contagious diseases, animals, or a whole host of other things. Does this mean I discriminate against any of these groups or people who are attracted to them? Of course not, though I do pity people who are attracted to children or animals as I believe that to be mental sickness.

    I'm 'horrified' by people who view Sacramento's lack of attraction to any factor that she is not attracted to as racism, and find their viewpoint not only small minded, foolishly shortsighted, and irrationally conformist, but also morally repugnant.

    Here is my response to the woman who was brave enough to stand up for herself:




    Sacramento:
    You're right -- no one should have to date anyone s/he doesn't want to.

    And your friends are wrong -- they have no right to assume who you should and should not be attracted to.

    And you're right, interracial dating is more prevalent now, but its prevalence here is the cart; the issue here is the horse.

    More people date interracially because more people realize that the only alternative to being racist is to judge each person as a person. Clearly, you judge people as individuals or you would have a problem with other people dating interracially.

    Your decision not to date this man wasn't about his character or lack thereof, it wasn't about his sex appeal or lack thereof, it wasn't about his intellect or lack thereof, it wasn't about his sense of humor or lack thereof, it wasn't about his work ethic or lack thereof, it wasn't about shared history or lack thereof, it wasn't about his goals or lack thereof, it wasn't about his compatibility or lack thereof. However, those aren't the only factors in attraction, and if anyone isn't attractive to you for whatever reason, it is your right to feel the way that you feel.

    To your credit, you're owning your opinion; all you had to say was that you didn't find him attractive, and this conversation doesn't happen. But, I am personally impressed with your bravery for addressing an issue that could invoke a lot of shortsighted hostility.

    However: We're having this conversation because you didn't find his race attractive, but that is your right because every person has the right to be attracted to whomever they are attracted to for whatever reason.
     
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    #1 VH, Aug 30, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2009
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  2. Creon

    Creon Community Member

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    I couldn't agree with you more, Von Hase.

    Race is essentialy physical characteristics. And physical characteristics are an important part of sexual preference. According to their logic, anyone who doesn't prefer blondes is a racist (it may sound weird in American standards, but this is practicaly the rule for mediterrannean peoples).

    Plus, I get the feeling that if the girl didn't want to date a Chinese or an Arab, then no one would say anything...
     
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    #2 Creon, Aug 30, 2009
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  3. BenW

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    In the same fashion in which I tend to find girls with dark hair more attractive than blondes, I tend to find white women more attractive than black women.

    I don't think it's "racist" to not be attracted to a person of a given race, for physical, personal, or cultural reasons.
     
    #3 BenW, Aug 30, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2009
  4. YOYO

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  5. OP
    VH

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    Agreed.

    Race is nothing but physical characteristics. The reason that racism is a problem is because it is based on the idea that physical characteristics can imply personality, which they can't.

    The biggest problem here is that while some people assume against an individual based on their physical characteristics, it is clear that Sacramento's friends are insisting that she make assumptions for an individual based on their physical characteristics. Both are just as racist.

    I am convinced that if Sacramento wrote a letter about not dating Asian men, it would not have been responded to. Currently, the issue of 'race' and making assumptions about individuals because of race is primarily focused on black people. Instances of people making assumptions about people of races other than black people are much less common.

    However, the issue of interracial relationships is almost exclusively focused on relationships between black men and white women, not even white men and black women. To be honest, I think it is an issue because so often these relationships aren't about the individuals, but primarily race. In almost all other instances where two people of different races enter into relationships, even those between white men and black women, there is a clear sense that these individuals have done so because they find each other attractive as individuals, not just physically, but also mentally, emotionally, and even spiritually. I think the controversy about interracial relationships really stems from white women being in relationships with black men who are clearly not a good match for them because of vast cultural differences, and are clearly in the relationship because it is fashionable, much like how teenage girls date guys in bands because they're in bands and not because they're compatible. When someone disagreed with the sentiment of the fashion statement, they were found 'morally repugnant'. As proof of this, when a black guy is of the same cultural background as a white woman, there isn't the sense of mismatch that causes people to find fault with the relationship. It doesn't seem like a teenage girl dating a wannabe rock star because it makes her cool, or the kid in the band dating the trophy girlfriend to impress his friends - even though these two individuals have almost nothing in common otherwise. It seems superficial and immature, while the interracial couple with compatible backgrounds and personalities just seem 'natural'.

    Maybe Sacramento is stating that she's not attracted to men who are not of her own culture, and this isn't an issue of physical characteristics. Maybe it's as simple as the analogy that she doesn't like to date guys in bands, and doesn't have interest in an insincere relationship without being able to enunciate her feelings so succinctly. I don't know. What I do know is that she has the right to be attracted to whomever she is attracted to for whatever reasons she has, as well as the right to not be attracted to whomever she is not attracted to for whatever reasons she has.

    It is her choice, and not one that anyone else can make for her. I find it morally repugnant that anyone would presume to dictate what someone else should or should not find attractive. Whether she only wants to date exclusively members of her own race, or completely exclude members of her own race, it's her choice.
     
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    #5 VH, Aug 30, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2009
  6. OP
    VH

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    I find that morally repugnant!

    (Hehe)
     
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  7. YOYO

    YOYO Newbie

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    Tribal.

    We always have been.

    One day we might grow out of it. But I doubt it.

    Most "racists" aren't actually racist......they're culturists and behaviourists inho

    (Apologies in advance to any pedantic logolepts for my incorrect usage)
     
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  8. OP
    VH

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    I couldn't agree more.
     
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  9. BenW

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  10. YOYO

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    Wow, and you're not even French !

    But I suppose most Americans are secret Francophiles when they nostalgically remember the Independence War(s).

    And to think that without them you'd have really bad teeth, crap food; small cars that didn't work and really tiny houses.

    Hence why I could never fathom that whole Freedom Fries debacle.
     
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  11. the

    the Si master race.
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    His race is part of him that is in one way expressed by his physical appearance. So she doesn't find him attractive then. Big fucking deal. This isn't racism it is white guilt.
     
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  12. Billy

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    She isn't racist, I would write a letter back and tell that person to go pound sand. If I am not attracted to someone, I don't date them. Period. And I don't have to make up reasons or excuses as to why I don't.
     
  13. Sithious

    Sithious Well-known member

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    I don't think we can draw any conclusions either way as we don't know the person in question. Judging by the content of the letter we can assume she isn't though, so yes I agree with your post that it's foolish to say or insinuate that she's a racist

    Innocent untill proven guilty
     
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    #13 Sithious, Aug 30, 2009
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  14. slant

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    There are probably two black people in the entire state of Utah, one female, one male. I just get nervous around people of different race which I don't know because I don't know how to act? It seems to me that a lot of people, especially minorities, are discriminated against to the point where if you say something that they deem midly offensive, even though it has nothing to do with their race, they say it's because I'm '-insert race here-' isn't it? Sometimes people will joke with it, and other times people'll get real pissed off about it. I am totally friends with people who are different races than I but I just feel uncomfortable around those who take their race to be a big issue and point things out all the time. I don't like a person because they are white. I like a person because of their personality-- who they are. So sometimes when people make a big focus on 'what' they are, on race, gender, country of origin, etc. it bothers me. Makes me uncomfortable.

    Sure, I'm female and I'm white. But I'm not proud of it or anything, that's just the way I was born.
     
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  15. Wyote

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    "You see, my friend has mentioned more than once that the idea of midget porn freaks him out" HAHA owned. Awesome argument.

    Also, I agree with Sithious. It's difficult to discern if she is actually racist with the given information, but assuming she is simply and genuinely not attracted to them that's not racism.

    Also, we are for sure tribal people on many levels.
     
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    Actually, interracial dating/marriage isn't that common. It is on the rise, but it is nowhere near as popular as the media makes it seem.

    Yes, the woman was being racist, but she wasn't actively being racist. She was accepting the dominant state of mind. Should she be held accountable? Well, I wouldn't put much effort into it. Most people feel how she does in some regard, if not about race, then about another socially structured aspect. I'm surprised this made a news article.
     
  17. midnightmelody

    midnightmelody nagging for truth

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    I just recently mused on this subject. Having preferences doesn't make you racist, it just makes you self-aware. I don't see anything wrong with preferences.
     
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  18. Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    i am racist. I prefer east asian women to caucasian women.
    Posted via Mobile Device
     
  19. Sithious

    Sithious Well-known member

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    I'm exactly the same myself, except I'm exactly the opposite
     
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    I have the same preference.
     
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