Teaching to the exam ruining math?

[Kavalan]

http://www.aps.org/publications/apsnews/200910/backpage.cfm

Found this through a friend who reads the physics journal on and off.

To summarize as I read it the demand for testing has force mathematical concepts onto younger children who in essence learn it to get good scores on an arbitrary test and the meaning and concepts and the application is lost.

Thoughts?

 

[Reon]

http://www.aps.org/publications/apsnews/200910/backpage.cfm

Found this through a friend who reads the physics journal on and off.

To summarize as I read it the demand for testing has force mathematical concepts onto younger children who in essence learn it to get good scores on an arbitrary test and the meaning and concepts and the application is lost.

Thoughts?

It's true. I have been told that Math doesn't start until College, and I find that to be true most of the times. When you don't know WHY you're doing something, you're never really going to understand the how. Not understanding the how, it's like not understanding what makes it beautiful (So I've been told)

 

[bamf]

http://www.aps.org/publications/apsnews/200910/backpage.cfm

Found this through a friend who reads the physics journal on and off.

To summarize as I read it the demand for testing has force mathematical concepts onto younger children who in essence learn it to get good scores on an arbitrary test and the meaning and concepts and the application is lost.

Thoughts?

I'd say that that's how most subjects are being taught as of recently. Schools get funding through test scores, and so they teach the students to pass the test. When you only have so much time to teach a concept, sadly it makes sense to teach in a way that keeps the school open.

 

[Reon]

I'd say that that's how most subjects are being taught as of recently. Schools get funding through test scores, and so they teach the students to pass the test. When you only have so much time to teach a concept, sadly it makes sense to teach in a way that keeps the school open.

That's sad though. By teaching for tests, you get a student population that lacks common sense and problem solving skills, and a group of individuals who earnestly dislike academics in all senses of the word. I realize that the educational system is stagnating (Not to the fault of the teachers, per say. I have had some great ones) but I feel stupid. I really do. I do a lot of study outside of school on my own, but I feel that if I wasn't taught to a test, I would be tons smarter; I might even like math as well.

 

[bamf]

That's sad though. By teaching for tests, you get a student population that lacks common sense and problem solving skills, and a group of individuals who earnestly dislike academics in all senses of the word. I realize that the educational system is stagnating (Not to the fault of the teachers, per say. I have had some great ones) but I feel stupid. I really do. I do a lot of study outside of school on my own, but I feel that if I wasn't taught to a test, I would be tons smarter; I might even like math as well.

Oh yeah, it's definitely sad. I think teaching to pass a test is stupid, and gives little value to education. It's why I'm a proponent for education reform.

 

[enfp can be shy]

That's a very good topic.

Main problem is that subjects are very rigidly divided into categories, when in fact this division is superficial, non-existent and illogical. I was lucky to be in good schools where teachers and professors were confident and brave enough to bend the system for us, not the other way around. If you show kids the applications in physics of some simple differential equations, and some elementary integral computing, you can motivate them much better to be eager to learn the prerequisites etc. Everything is very related and the relations must be emphasized, if people really care to prepare future scientists.

Otherwise you get the perfectly normal reaction: so why should I study logarithms, I see no application in real life. All these concepts didn't magically appear, and it's good to offer some natural sense of why they were needed at first, and where it all goes today.

 

[IndigoSensor]

It makes me very pissed when any class is taught in such a way that you need to learn how to take a test, and just spit out information that is required. That isn't truly learning. You learn best when you are engaged and are actually applying the material you are learing. Interesting and suprizignly though, many students do not like this. They just want to memorize it in the short term and be done with it. The students are just as much of a problem as is the education system. I am very lucky with that the year I graduated I missed the cutoff for many new requirements for graduation and what not. All of which were superfluous, and detracted away from actually learning something. I have no idea how fix the education system, I just know what I don't like and what isn't working.

 

[Kavalan]

I missed said cutoff at my school and went insomuch that they converted half the day to the "core" (english, physical science/Bio, History) and made it take up one more period than individually and added more required classes and it would have made my selection of classes impossible. So it goes

 

[Reon]

It makes me very pissed when any class is taught in such a way that you need to learn how to take a test, and just spit out information that is required. That isn't truly learning. You learn best when you are engaged and are actually applying the material you are learing. Interesting and suprizignly though, many students do not like this. They just want to memorize it in the short term and be done with it. The students are just as much of a problem as is the education system. I am very lucky with that the year I graduated I missed the cutoff for many new requirements for graduation and what not. All of which were superfluous, and detracted away from actually learning something. I have no idea how fix the education system, I just know what I don't like and what isn't working.

Not gonna lie, I didn't like it at first. After you get into the routine of learning information solely for the purpose of the test, suddenly switching to actual learning can be somewhat difficult. You can almost dissociate yourself with the stuff your learning when you are learning rote memorization but when you're are learning in a innovative environment you have to care, tend to make mistakes at first (and if you're good, all the time.), and actually have to participate in class. I guess I wasn't used to participating in class and having to 'take a shot' and hope my answer is right and if not, learn from my mistakes.

 

[Faye]

I think math teachers ruin math. You're either a math person or you're forsaken. Only so many math teachers are intelligent enough to create a curriculum that works for people who put effort into the class.

Yes, there does seem to be a severe lack of application. I think that if application was part of the ciricullum, many people would be able to grasp it better because they would have to understand and process the equations more deeply, which would make them stick more.

I had one good math teacher in high school who had us use application. The others didn't use any application.

 

[sookie]

I agree so much. Some math concepts children are not ready for developmentally. So they dont get them yet but have them forced on them

I agree

 

[Xander]

The whole education system is an abortion!

Basically it's designed around SJ. You remember facts and figures because that's what people do in school. It's pointless.

As my father put it once, it's only important what you got at school until you hit college, it's only important what you got at college until you go through university and your degree only matters until you have experience... then it's all a load of detail.

Having been in engineering for ten years it's commonly accepted that university graduates are useless and they much prefer what they call "time served" engineers.

The thing is that education never actually hits the mark and that's stupid.

Just as an off the wall example, what's the point of learning "basic science" only to be told many years later after it's had time to ingrain itself in your mind that it's all BS and you need to start over? Why not start out with the truth or at least something that doesn't contradict what comes later?

I mean maths is a good example. We all know that if you multiply a minus by a minus you get a positive result right? How many actually had it explained why? It took me till university to actually ask (I think I just happened to be awake that day) and it took the tutor quite a while to explain with graphs but he said that few had ever asked him that.

The mere trend that people tend to go into abject shock when they're told that they have a one in a million chance of dying from the latest bug and the way they charge to the shop to buy into a lottery where they've got a better chance of being hit by a train whilst standing in the shop saying "I'm going to be hit by a train right now" than they have of winning the damn thing tends to suggest that our education is failing because people are just given information and only ever asked to quote it back again. No thought, no questions, no understanding, just memorise and regurgitate.

I think that thus far I've dropped like 4 subjects for that... one of those was art!!

From a geeks point of view, you know the whole Star Trek future? Everyone studying quantum physics at school and knowing how to operate and repair everything before they leave school? Never going to happen until the stick in the mud institutions are told directly and without diplomacy or compassion to buck their ideas up or they're being replaced by a panel of experts from industry.

Either that or just cut to the quick and throw them off a cliff before they consign the whole of human education to filling out multiple choice papers...

Basically the education system needs to learn to accommodate all types of learning and not just those they feel comfortable with. The pain I've seen on my ENFP friend as he struggles to keep his shadow ISTJ working on a topic is just not right. He should get marked up not down for thinking for himself. There should be more marks for trying to improve the answer past what is accepted and failing than there is for hitting what is expected. Only then will you see an education system which is progressive not regressive.

 

[On my own path]

The whole education system is an abortion!

Basically it's designed around SJ. You remember facts and figures because that's what people do in school. It's pointless.



The thing is that education never actually hits the mark and that's stupid.



I mean maths is a good example. We all know that if you multiply a minus by a minus you get a positive result right? How many actually had it explained why? It took me till university to actually ask (I think I just happened to be awake that day) and it took the tutor quite a while to explain with graphs but he said that few had ever asked him that.

The mere trend that people tend to go into abject shock when they're told that they have a one in a million chance of dying from the latest bug and the way they charge to the shop to buy into a lottery where they've got a better chance of being hit by a train whilst standing in the shop saying "I'm going to be hit by a train right now" than they have of winning the damn thing tends to suggest that our education is failing because people are just given information and only ever asked to quote it back again. No thought, no questions, no understanding, just memorise and regurgitate.



From a geeks point of view, you know the whole Star Trek future? Everyone studying quantum physics at school and knowing how to operate and repair everything before they leave school? Never going to happen until the stick in the mud institutions are told directly and without diplomacy or compassion to buck their ideas up or they're being replaced by a panel of experts from industry.

Either that or just cut to the quick and throw them off a cliff before they consign the whole of human education to filling out multiple choice papers...

Basically the education system needs to learn to accommodate all types of learning and not just those they feel comfortable with. The pain I've seen on my ENFP friend as he struggles to keep his shadow ISTJ working on a topic is just not right. He should get marked up not down for thinking for himself. There should be more marks for trying to improve the answer past what is accepted and failing than there is for hitting what is expected. Only then will you see an education system which is progressive not regressive.

I agree and the whole concept of " just accepting what you have been told" from my perspective seems antagonistic the very purpose of Science and Education itself. With respect to the portion of the post that I highlighted, I do find it disturbing that teaching why it is considered mathematically valid is overlooked, I eventually ended up deducing why on my own though

 

[Xander]

I agree and the whole concept of " just accepting what you have been told" from my perspective seems antagonistic the very purpose of Science and Education itself. With respect to the portion of the post that I highlighted, I do find it disturbing that teaching why it is considered mathematically valid is overlooked, I eventually ended up deducing why on my own though

Well I guess you could argue that they're encouraging more in depth thinking by having a total lack of it.

You can tell it's tailored to one type though by the total lack of context to most of the questions.

 

[NeverAmI]

If you actually think about what it is to instill knowledge and intellect, schooling is so far off it isn't even funny.

Schooling is being managed, many times, by the same people that manage businesses. It is less about helping students to learn and more about making the "business" run as quickly and efficiently as possible while meeting your goals and objectives.

In my opinion, many times these managers LOVE to TALK about how to make connections with others and what the "right" ways are while never actually making connections or doing what is right.

Any teacher that starts out genuinely interested in helping others is quickly bombarded with "goals and objectives" created by people that don't have a clue about teaching. They are judged with idiotic metrics that really don't measure anything of true value. Some teachers are so passionate about teaching that they ignore the metrics and goals and objectives, instead focusing on making connections with the students and doing what is right (See my last paragraph to realize the sheer stupidity here.) Then that teacher is "let go" because they aren't of value to the business, er school.

Eventually any teacher is so perturbed that there is no chance in hell they could adequately teach the way they need to.

You can have the absolute best cirriculum in the world, but if the teacher doesn't give an F, it doesn't matter much. My best teachers threw out the cirriculum and did their own thing. ALL of my classmates paid attention and loved the class, and we actually learned...

There are bad examples of teachers throwing out the cirriculum too, but that's life.

 

[Xander]

If you actually think about what it is to instill knowledge and intellect, schooling is so far off it isn't even funny.

Schooling is being managed, many times, by the same people that manage businesses. It is less about helping students to learn and more about making the "business" run as quickly and efficiently as possible while meeting your goals and objectives.

In my opinion, many times these managers LOVE to TALK about how to make connections with others and what the "right" ways are while never actually making connections or doing what is right.

Any teacher that starts out genuinely interested in helping others is quickly bombarded with "goals and objectives" created by people that don't have a clue about teaching. They are judged with idiotic metrics that really don't measure anything of true value. Some teachers are so passionate about teaching that they ignore the metrics and goals and objectives, instead focusing on making connections with the students and doing what is right (See my last paragraph to realize the sheer stupidity here.) Then that teacher is "let go" because they aren't of value to the business, er school.

Eventually any teacher is so perturbed that there is no chance in hell they could adequately teach the way they need to.

You can have the absolute best cirriculum in the world, but if the teacher doesn't give an F, it doesn't matter much. My best teachers threw out the cirriculum and did their own thing. ALL of my classmates paid attention and loved the class, and we actually learned...

There are bad examples of teachers throwing out the cirriculum too, but that's life.

Actually the worst offence in education is far simpler than that and is one that most seem oblivious to.

Education teaches you what others did, how others solved their problems... it fails singularly to equip you to solve problems. That is the context they lack and the reason why you get so many academics with no real world value or common sense.

 

[NeverAmI]

Actually the worst offence in education is far simpler than that and is one that most seem oblivious to.

Education teaches you what others did, how others solved their problems... it fails singularly to equip you to solve problems. That is the context they lack and the reason why you get so many academics with no real world value or common sense.

"Yes, there are many studies that show these goals and objectives will help you succeed in your teaching career! Trust me, THESE are what you need to focus on."

 

[Xander]

Oddly enough a curriculum is a good idea... the only problem is that instead of setting goals it tries to map paths and that's just crazy. Too many influences... it's like predicting weather... with a blind fold and no computer!

 

[smiffy]

as a maths teacher! thinking for yourself rarely happens even in top classes! its so sad!

 

[Introspiritual]

The whole education system is an abortion!

Basically it's designed around SJ. You remember facts and figures because that's what people do in school. It's pointless.

It's designed around Sensors in general (85% of the population). SJs just happen to be the majority in most educational institutions, up to 2/3rds of teachers, so they naturally cater to other SJs better.

Makes me wonder if the difference between most regular and honors students in high school was the N/S divide. That could be an interesting study.