I guess I like math either way, whether it is tied directly to the real world (I'm an engineer) or presented purely as an abstraction. This is sort of the dichotomy between Newton and Liebniz (see: Liebniz-Clarke Correspondence--absolute vs. relative space). But, I guess most people prefer to see the connection between the mathematics and the real world. However, sometimes the purely abstract in time becomes applied. For example, until recently, elliptical curves were abstract, with no apparent application. Then, they became important in cryptography.
Teaching to the exam ruining math?
- Thread starter Kavalan
- Start date
I guess I like math either way, whether it is tied directly to the real world (I'm an engineer) or presented purely as an abstraction. This is sort of the dichotomy between Newton and Liebniz (see: Liebniz-Clarke Correspondence--absolute vs. relative space). But, I guess most people prefer to see the connection between the mathematics and the real world. However, sometimes the purely abstract in time becomes applied. For example, until recently, elliptical curves were abstract, with no apparent application. Then, they became important in cryptography.
S
Shai Gar
The abstraction helps to understand the universe, without abstract mathematics we'd not have understood things like gravity or how black holes work, which will eventually lead to practical mathematics.
- Nov 12, 2008
- 14,153
- 1,334
- 0
- MBTI
- INFJ
- Enneagram
- 1w2 sx/so/sp
I mean no offence to you what so ever, truly. But, most people who are good at math, end up having this opinion about the matter. This is the problem, people who aren't good at math aren't like this at all. It is diffucult for them to grasp it, and it is very frusterating. I am somewhere in the middle, I can force myself to learn higher math if I throw myself at it, but I don't care to do that at all, as I dislike math. It is very dry, concrete, and black-white. Having to constantly prove everything and back it up in a systematic way drives me up the wall to no end.
It is like anything. If you are inheriently good at something, it is often hard for one to understand how someone else couldn't like it, or figure out how to do it. Everyone is different though, so some people just won't get it all. For some unknown reason, (most) mathimatically gifted people can not understand that it doesn't make sense to some people, and thus disregard the struggle of it. Logic is the base for it, and not everyone understands or likes logic. The math department at my school is like this. They want everyone to have absolute understanding of every in and out of higher math (when they are required to take it for their major), and having spoken to one professer who runs the calculus 2 course, they don't care at all if you don't get it.
I take no offense at this, indeed, it's hard to offend me, an INTP, about these kinds of things. I'm easily offended by some things, though, like gratuitous cursing, intentional meanness, impoliteness, incivility and the like. But, that's because I'm a boomer, I guess. Anyway, I do understand that many people have difficulty with mathematics. Partly, this is due to poor teaching, partly, inaptitude, and partly, it's due to fear. Indeed, mathematics teachers in universities tend to be quite taken with themselves and smug about "pure mathematics." As an engineer (EE), I was often annoyed by the disdain mathematics profs had for those of us who use math to actually make things. I really love math, pure and applied. To me, abstract mathematics is one of the most beautiful things--it's truly aesthetic, as great as Mozart and Monet. And, this is something that is unknowable to people who fear math, and it's a shame that so many people miss this incredible beauty. I say this, not to be superior or arrogant, but because I often spend hours thinking about math and it's a great pleasure for me.
Norton, as someone who has dealt with math fear in the past I just want to say what a really, really, really inspiring post this was for me. You seem to totally "get it" from so many angles.
I was never very good at math as a child, and remember being yelled at a lot about it, which did not help matters (nor did my personality, lack of aptitude, over-sensitivity, hearing impairment, or ability to live in a complete dream world help matters, either! It was the perfect storm of math fear, and I accept some responsibility too.)
Also, there was a lot of rote memorization involved in the early years, and
Boredom+Fear=No Learning
Now, there's an equation for you! Can you translate that into numbers? :bounce:
My older brother, who I am fairly certain is also an INTP and is also an electrical engineer/photographer (go figure) was the only person who could talk to/tutor me about math as a child without me bursting into tears, getting very angry, and feeling totally humiliated. (Yes, I was an annoying kid!) My INTP brother had the patience of a saint when it came to helping me with math.
Also, I think many kids are "late bloomers" when it comes to understanding complex concepts. I know I was. This has been mentioned already in this thread and, I think there is a lot of truth to it.
How can you tell a non-math type how beautiful math is? Would you be willing to show us?
Norton, great post, I couldn't agree more.
IndigoSensor, as someone who on regular basis has to deal with mostly students who hate math, I can understand why you said that math is dry concrete, and black-white. I think that you just didn't have the chance to see how it's just the opposite of what you think.
Problem with most math teachers is that they won't accept if your solution or proof for some problem isn't the same as they expected it to be even if your solution is right. That one way of thinking and teaching math classes is something that's killing every intelligent and creative person who might be very good at math.
To ones who dislike math, but do want to see some fun sides of it, and to see how it can be beautiful I recommend to read "Passion for mathematics". And to ones who are somewhat good at math but want more of it or to see how some things can be explained in various ways I recommend "A course of pure mathematics" by Hardy.
I realize that what I wrote is a bit off topic, and I apologize for that.
IndigoSensor, as someone who on regular basis has to deal with mostly students who hate math, I can understand why you said that math is dry concrete, and black-white. I think that you just didn't have the chance to see how it's just the opposite of what you think.
Problem with most math teachers is that they won't accept if your solution or proof for some problem isn't the same as they expected it to be even if your solution is right. That one way of thinking and teaching math classes is something that's killing every intelligent and creative person who might be very good at math.
To ones who dislike math, but do want to see some fun sides of it, and to see how it can be beautiful I recommend to read "Passion for mathematics". And to ones who are somewhat good at math but want more of it or to see how some things can be explained in various ways I recommend "A course of pure mathematics" by Hardy.
I realize that what I wrote is a bit off topic, and I apologize for that.
- Nov 12, 2008
- 14,153
- 1,334
- 0
- MBTI
- INFJ
- Enneagram
- 1w2 sx/so/sp
I have a respect for math. I actually enjoy it, when I am watching someone else do it. I took a course in quantum mechanics last semester (I am a chemistry major), I found the material and application of the formulas very interesting, and faceinating. However, to sit down and solve the equations is painful to me. I don't like it, as my brain does not think that way. I am a conceptualizer. As far as pure math, I have taken up to calculus 3. Calculus 2 will for ever be the worst course I have ever taken in my life, and I never want to hear the words sum searies and sequences again. Math in it's pure form is not for me, applications of it, I am ok with.