Sh** tests

[Sandie33]

In dating, it’s usually scheming

From the Internet:
https://lifeoperatingsystem.com/pass-shit-tests/

https://www.masculinedevelopment.com/pass-shit-test-2-strategies/

There are literally books on it
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IJLQCYA/?tag=infjs-20

I had to sleep on all this. My conclusion is that game players ruin perfectly good candidates.

Just Be Yourself. If someone isn't a match, keep it moving, S/he will show up. Earn your stripes when reaching your goals. Many candidates don't know themselves let alone anybody else.

 

[Pin]

I've learned to pursue power instead of dates. I know that dates come when you improve yourself: wealth, fitness, rank.

A man doesn't have to approach women like a street urchin and beg them for love. A man has to improve his success.

If one or a few random women are rude to you, it literally does not matter when there's a new Patek on your wrist.

 

[Asa]

when there's a new Patek on your wrist.

While I generally agree with you that pursuing your best self is better than chasing dates, I'd buy land instead of a watch with that money.

 

[Pin]

While I generally agree with you that pursuing your best self is better than chasing dates, I'd buy land instead of a watch with that money.

That's a far better investment.

 

[Asa]

How to avoid getting shit tested

 

[ClevelandINTP]

Yes, agreed.

Phenomena exist before terminology.


I don't think we're going to get anywhere with this part. Yes, there was an increase and then it leveled off. That's all I'm willing to state.

All I've ever been willing to state is it has increased and has trended upward

As a personal anecdote, I stopped dating in 2007 (the low of the trend) and restarted recently (the high of the trend); therefore, that shift is more likely to be apparent to someone like me

I was asking bigger questions as to why that has happened

 

[ClevelandINTP]

a) It is wrong to take it to a physical level, but the situation could be understandable from their perspective if the other person when that person is forcing themselves repeatedly on them. Describe the whole situation.

b) Let's spice it up and switch the roles here:
-> If a man goes up to a man and calls him names repeatedly, and the man would punch the other man. Is he wrong?
-> If a woman goes up to a woman and calls her names repeatedly, and the she would punch the other woman. Is she wrong?
-> If a woman goes up to a man and calls him names repeatedly, and the man would punch the woman. Is he wrong?

The whole question provokes a gender bias..

What should have been asked: If a person goes up to another person and calls them names repeatedly, and that person punches the other person, is that person in the wrong? -> Refer to point a

Violence in response to violence is wrong. There's nothing in the example that indicates the instigator is physically threatening or verbally suggesting they will hurt the person outside of a verbal onslaught

 

[ClevelandINTP]

Go fuck yourself. The snark is unnecessary as the burden of explanation here is upon you.

I think you've established, though, that the term does constitute a trend, even if we don't have a way of tracking the behaviour itself.

I agree with your analysis, too - 'shit testing' seems to represent another means of socially-acceptable violence against men particular, and hence bears some unpacking.

It is very necessary to point out to someone they have no right in attacking one's character based on subjective bias and personal agenda instead of looking at factual evidence

You seem like (1) someone who would know what an index is, and (2) knows that it's a measure of relativity, and (3) has used google before; so, do your own homework, and focus on the topic before attacking someone

If any one of those three conditions is false, say so

And you're better than a verbal F off--it's classless

 

[ClevelandINTP]

This thread basically:

1. Wamens hurt my feels
2. Shit testing has in recent years become a popular term used to describe a phenomenon that has always existed
3. Third/fourth wave feminism continues to be stupid

(1) It's abusive. I have had first-hand personal experience with it
(2) It's a phenomenon that existed in differing degrees and in times where social context has changed

It's obviously a trend: there have been a handful of books and several content pieces from blogs, vlogs and magazines written about it. I have had first-hand personal experience with it

(3) My inquiry was about understanding possible causes and to dig deeper. There is a tie-in to feminist topics and other tangentially related systems. In my personal experience, I have seen self-described feminist-leaning people to be the ones to employ these tactics more (anecdotal)

For full disclosure: I used to be a feminist (in fact almost instantly). Even though I agree with it's larger mission, I don't like the term "feminism" as it's not a neutral or inclusive term. It also perpetuates, whether intentional or not, man-hating. I much more align with something like "humanism" which is based more on THE common denominator (human beings) and empirical evidence (as opposed to subjective wants and truth)

It's fair to challenge social inequitable behavior at a time when social equitable behavior is being demanded and should be demanded more

 

[Asa]

I'm not sure why violence got mixed into this conversation. It seems like a separate thread that shouldn't have much to do with dating.


I don't date... obviously. I have no experience with being shit tested or negged. This is @ClevelandINTP's experience and I respect that. Instead of arguing whether it is a problem we could approach it as "it is a problem for some people". Cleveland lives in an area where shit testing is more popular or he is attracted to the type of women who are more prone to shit test.

If it is as popular as Cleveland says, I'm beginning to understand why I get hit on so often*. I'm nice to people who take a risk and ask me to spend time with them. I'm only mean if it is deserved.
That said, I get harassed if I need to set boundaries. Maybe it is because predatory types think they have an in because I'm courteous until they deserve to be told off. Maybe shit testing is a defense mechanism.
*That isn't a humble brag.


It doesn't make sense that people looking for connection would shit test because it starts the interaction with negativity and closed doors. While a confidant man is attractive, there are so many other qualities that are more so, unless you're looking for a one night stand. A man who respects me and is respectful toward others, who is kind, who is a deep thinker, who shares some of my interests and philosophies, who has a similar sense of humor, and who has life goals and wants to better himself, are all examples of qualities I'd look for before "confidence". Confidence is often a mask for major insecurity, too. I think a man's attitude toward life, his habits, his goals, etc, show whether he truly has healthy confidence.

But what about how men treat each other? Is that a potential root of shit testing? I've seen this jokingly insulting behavior with men playing sports and gaming. It's really similar to negging/shit testing. Are women just tying to speak the same playful language with men?
A funny anecdote: On my gaming team the men neg each other constantly. One guy is targeted more than the others. He is a nice guy, talented gamer, and has a fantastic British accent. All the women on my team defend him and like him, regardless of their ages. (20-60s.)

I have a lot of questions about this because I haven't dated in over 20 years and I have never hung out with certain types of girls. I have friends of different genders and walks of life but I just don't gel with a certain type of woman or their bro dude boyfriends.

 

[ClevelandINTP]

Shit tests are a form of emotional abuse. Emotional abuse is a form of violence. If A equals B, and B equals C, then A equals C...

I think instead of diminishing shit tests and marginalizing them as a problem for some, we should look at them as a microcosm of broader social themes, which is the point of this thread

Shit tests are also not isolated to dating. I'd go far as to argue they can be similar to traits found in bullying

 

[Asa]

@ClevelandINTP – I agree it is similar to bullying.
I'm asking how shit testing is different than the male bonding banter (and shit talking from opponents) during sports and gaming?

 

[ClevelandINTP]

@ClevelandINTP – I agree it is similar to bullying.
I'm asking how shit testing is different than the male bonding banter (and shit talking from opponents) during sports and gaming?

Testing implies judgement

I would not be the best to answer the question. When I'm "giving shit", I'm not judging them--I'm just being playful or calling them out. Their subtle reactions or how they play along aren't analyzed or used against them. Perhaps, some dudes use this to determine who's BIG DOG, but that stuff never registered for me. I'd probably chalk it up to Ti-Ne which is about rejecting conformity and authority to find out truth, equality and consistency. Low Fe means I don't take the responses personal, and I sometimes assume that others are wired to just hash it out and have it be like nothing happened. I'm not a judger. Ti also takes things pretty literal

In dating and relationships, it is used to judge someone, to rule them out. That's a different dynamic

Not to be technical, but I think the opponents analogy is off. In a relationship or dating, you're on the same team or at least trying to be

 

[ClevelandINTP]

There's also a line between testing, disrespect and abuse

 

[ClevelandINTP]

Complete with the subtitle: DID THIS VIDEO PISS YOU OFF? GOOD! Put on your big-boy jockeys

 

[ClevelandINTP]

Definitely seen stuff like this before...

 

[ClevelandINTP]

@ClevelandINTP – I agree it is similar to bullying.
I'm asking how shit testing is different than the male bonding banter (and shit talking from opponents) during sports and gaming?

I'd also say a relationship is about being supportive of each other's insecurities (to a healthy degree) rather than to expose or to judge them for it

 

[Daustus]

I think you need to factor in age in your study. A 25 year old dating scene versus a 35 year old dating scene would be totally different. I have a few friends that are single and still dating and their dating needs are much different today and so is their outlook. I'll ask them what they experience. I'm interested if they've seen the same rise.

 

[Asa]

@ClevelandINTP - You're making me feel protective of you. "Don't shit test my internet friends, jerks!"

I wonder if this is age-related, too, @Daustus. I don't see 40-somethings shit testing each other that often. People in their forties are in panic mode, though, so there are a lot of other twists.

 

[sassafras]

Yeah, this behavior is gross. It's no different from bullying. I'm trying to figure out the source, though. Most of the stuff I find is written from the point of view of a PUA and/or someone who has been shit-tested. What do people who shit test in the context of dating and relationships call it? Is there a how-to shit test guide a la 'how to neg a woman'? Is it called something different?