Self defence classes | Page 2 | INFJ Forum

Self defence classes

@IndigoSensor;

If your issue is that violence and aggression is not natural for you, then I understand completely. It's a big problem for me, when I'm training people. And for people who want to learn to protect themselves from violence. For instance my girlfriend is one of the least violent people in the world. Aggression and violence is something very alien to her being. I have talked to her in-depth about the kind of psychological training she would need. But know that there are ways of developing the correct "psychological state" to deal with violence, that your everyday personality can't deal with. The biggest issue is not training people how, but how to market this to the average, non-violent person without making them run away or squirm in discomfort at the thought of it.

I know there are states one can enter to "dissisocate" from those feelings, as things unrelated (but paralleled) to this have shown me. Also I did this when I was 14 years old, so at my current age of 21 I might actually be able to do such a thing now with effort and practice. The things I don't really have a single iota of desire to do such a thing. If I were to do something overtly physical out of my confort zone, it would be weight lifting. Mostly because I really want the end product of it. I am just not at a time in my life when I can do that.
 
I've done one month of basic krav maga awhile back. best month of that year! learnt so much and was very practical
 
I think better skills overall equals the win in a fight. Not so much "Style"

I was somewhat joking in that statement, there are many Taekwon-do practitioners that I respect.
Absolutely, but so many art forms neglect the importance of sparring, which is why the problem of martial art vs martial art is around. Sparring, drill work and bag work plays a far more important role in reality than kata, forms or patterns which many of these art forms swear by. You have to get real when it comes to training otherwise you will not get far in your training. I have meet many people from different martial arts, from my observation sparring humbles the human spirit. Many people who train in the 'art side' of martial art are practically sitting on clouds when it comes to egos. I enjoy bringing people back to earth by making them taste the canvas flooring in the ring. As my trainer says, "The ring is not about dreams, its about physics." otherwise you could have any person thinking that they were Rocky jumping in the ring and even worse, on the street where they could get seriously hurt.

Don't kid yourself, get in the ring in and spar, it gives you the balls required to defend yourself on the street.
 
i've thought of trying aikido for confidence because i like the idea of turning someone's attack back on them. i'm not really an attacking type of person. but i've felt intimidated by the idea of some type of hyper-masculinised aggression culture mentioned. which i probably wouldn't find at all if i actually went to a class.

Try it! My ex studied aikido for years. I know his male INFJ friend liked it a lot. He said there were lots of women there too. Didn't sound like a masculine aggression culture.

[MENTION=1814]invisible[/MENTION]
I'm practicing aikido atm, and the dojo which I'm at doesn't have such a culture you describe.
It's great.

Only 2 women there though.
 
Don't kid yourself, get in the ring in and spar, it gives you the balls required to defend yourself on the street.

Hotkebab, I would appreciate it if we could stick to the matter's in the OP. I asked very specific questions because I'm interested in people's views on them, as it is helping me sort some things out- I didn't want this to be about what is and isn't effective for real life self protection.

If you want to discuss how effective "sparring" is for real life self protection, I'll start a thread for it if you like and I'll discuss it with you.
 
I know there are states one can enter to "dissisocate" from those feelings, as things unrelated (but paralleled) to this have shown me. Also I did this when I was 14 years old, so at my current age of 21 I might actually be able to do such a thing now with effort and practice. The things I don't really have a single iota of desire to do such a thing. If I were to do something overtly physical out of my confort zone, it would be weight lifting. Mostly because I really want the end product of it. I am just not at a time in my life when I can do that.

Okay fair enough.

This is where I'm coming from:

I'm interested in what motivates and unmotivates people to take up self defence. But I'm also in the long process of developing my own approach at how to integrate real life self protection skills into everyday people's lives. It's one of the things I'm most passionate about. Becoming aggressive and entering a violent mindset is the only way one could ever hope to combat violence in a real life scenario. I know how to train this and I'm working on how I could train this with other's- that's the easy part. The hard part is making people realise this cold reality. It is a must. So, how do I explain this and introduce this concept to people- without it making them run for the hills. How do I explain this to parents who want their kids to "defend themselves". A lot of re-education, but also a lot of marketing. Not in a commercial sense, but in how I present these concepts to people, so that they can relate to it. How I make them understand the things that they innately understand but are in denial about.

Hence all the comments about people liking the idea of aikido: their dream is for the result to be non-violent but it's just not feasible or realistic.

It's also interesting that i'm talking to you about this, as you expressed you have no interest in learning it. But I prefer to converse with people who don't have much martial art/self defence/combatives experience because those that do, tend to have their heads up their asses.
 
Hotkebab, I would appreciate it if we could stick ro the matter's in the OP. I asked very specific questions because I'm interested in people's views on them, as it is helping me sort some things out- I didn't want this to be about what is and isn't effective for real life self protection.

If you want to discuss how effective "sparring" is for real life self protection, I'll start a thread for it if you like and I'll discuss it with you.


That comment was actually in response to me so I was the individual who led the topic off of its tracks. Sorry about that.
Becoming aggressive and entering a violent mindset is the only way one could ever hope to combat violence in a real life scenario. .

I don't agree. I don't believe you need to become aggressive and enter a violent mindset to combat violence in real life. Some people are naturally not aggressive, for example, some people are naturally defensive and will pivot, turn, lean, and block until they have an opening and others are reactive and will just keep playing around with you until you're in a bad place. Neither of these concepts are bad and, honestly, "trying" to be aggressive in a street fight probably isn't a good idea. Most people just don't have that reaction time to be able to keep up.

I also don't think you need a violent mindset to hurt someone. When I have a violent mindset and I'm fighting/sparring, I tend to become more sloppy and less effective. When I'm fighting I tend to claim down and assess the situation, as in I tend to look at how "far" I need to go. If it's a simple fight, simple kicks to the legs, simple aikido, cqc (mostly punches/holds), leg sweep, walk away. If it's a no holds bar match, everything is in: I'm looking for arm breaks, really strong side and round house kicks to the knees and shin, weapons etc.
 
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Hotkebab, I would appreciate it if we could stick to the matter's in the OP. I asked very specific questions because I'm interested in people's views on them, as it is helping me sort some things out- I didn't want this to be about what is and isn't effective for real life self protection.

If you want to discuss how effective "sparring" is for real life self protection, I'll start a thread for it if you like and I'll discuss it with you.

Oh? I thought that my comment was relevant to the topic.
My apologies.
 
Okay fair enough.

This is where I'm coming from:

I'm interested in what motivates and unmotivates people to take up self defence. But I'm also in the long process of developing my own approach at how to integrate real life self protection skills into everyday people's lives. It's one of the things I'm most passionate about. Becoming aggressive and entering a violent mindset is the only way one could ever hope to combat violence in a real life scenario. I know how to train this and I'm working on how I could train this with other's- that's the easy part. The hard part is making people realise this cold reality. It is a must. So, how do I explain this and introduce this concept to people- without it making them run for the hills. How do I explain this to parents who want their kids to "defend themselves". A lot of re-education, but also a lot of marketing. Not in a commercial sense, but in how I present these concepts to people, so that they can relate to it. How I make them understand the things that they innately understand but are in denial about.

Hence all the comments about people liking the idea of aikido: their dream is for the result to be non-violent but it's just not feasible or realistic.

It's also interesting that i'm talking to you about this, as you expressed you have no interest in learning it. But I prefer to converse with people who don't have much martial art/self defence/combatives experience because those that do, tend to have their heads up their asses.

Martial arts or self defense doesn't have to be violent. Avoiding the situation to begin with or walking away from a potential fight is the best self defense. Self defense should only be used as a last resort to where your life could be potentially on the line. However self defense is something that should not be sugar coated. No I do not have my head up my ass, I have witnessed people being assaulted on the street as a result of a situation that could of been avoided. This is why I am a huge advocate of the martial arts, I want nothing more than for people to be confident in protecting themselves effectively. You may know the moves physically but If don't know them mentally and you brain happens to freeze up during an attack (which happens) then you're toast.
 
I don't agree. I don't believe you need to become aggressive and enter a violent mindset to combat violence in real life. Some people are naturally not aggressive, for example, some people are naturally defensive and will pivot, turn, lean, and block until they have an opening and others are reactive and will just keep playing around with you until you're in a bad place. Neither of these concepts are bad and, honestly, "trying" to be aggressive in a street fight probably isn't a good idea. Most people just don't have that reaction time to be able to keep up.

Lol, the bold made me laugh. If you are doing anything but attacking the attacker in a frightening and violent scenario then you've probably lost. The psychological damage that is done to you when you're the one being pounded whilst someone is screaming and swearing at you, telling you they're gonna kill your family- is potentially a fight ender for you.

And of course most people are naturally not aggressive. That's the whole point. Training them to summon that aggression is purpose and training them to understand that it's a good thing and is useful is where I'm coming from.

Reaction time? What does that have to do with anything to do with violent intent? If you don't have the reaction time, then you need it! That's the whole point of training, to develop kinesthetic intelligence, the physical awareness to give as good as the opponent.

I also don't think you need a violent mindset to hurt someone. When I have a violent mindset and I'm fighting/sparring, I tend to become more sloppy and less effective. When I'm fighting I tend to claim down and assess the situation, as in I tend to look at how "far" I need to go. If it's a simple fight, simple kicks to the legs, simple aikido, cqc (mostly punches/holds), leg sweep, walk away. If it's a no holds bar match, everything is in: I'm looking for arm breaks, really strong side and round house kicks to the knees and shin, weapons etc.

Okay first of all- we're not talking about the same thing. You're framing your responses from your experiences with "sparring" in a class. You are also making the mistake of assuming that sparring and fighting are synonymous. They are not.

Simple fight? What is a simple fight? What kind of fight are you talking about? There are different kinds of attacks, I'm not interested in match fighting or training people to do so. I'm interested in surviving violent confrontations that could otherwise not be avoided. You need to define what context you are talking about. No holds barred match?? Are you serious? I am not talking about walking up to someone and saying "wanna fight?" Or getting in a confrontation, putting a guard up, and getting in an MMA match.

I'm looking for arm breaks, really strong side and round house kicks to the knees and shin, weapons etc.

Mmm Hmm. Arm breaks huh? Ever broken a man's arm? Hyper extended their elbow joint, until you hear a sickening crack and wailing scream- then given a 5 year prison sentence? Lol, you talk about not needing a violent/aggressive mindset, then talk about breaking a man's arm. The repercussion's of such an act, and the level of psychological violent intent that you would need to carry out that mind of violence is very high- verging on sociopathic if you are not in a life or death situation.
 
Martial arts or self defense doesn't have to be violent. Avoiding the situation to begin with or walking away from a potential fight is the best self defense. Self defense should only be used as a last resort to where your life could be potentially on the line.

I totally agree with you Hotkebab.

However self defense is something that should not be sugar coated. No I do not have my head up my ass, I have witnessed people being assaulted on the street as a result of a situation that could of been avoided. This is why I am a huge advocate of the martial arts, I want nothing more than for people to be confident in protecting themselves effectively. You may know the moves physically but If don't know them mentally and you brain happens to freeze up during an attack (which happens) then you're toast.

Again, I totally agree with you.

But, this is what i'm saying: In order to combat violence, (and we're assuming that we've exhausted all methods of de-escalation and avoidance) you need to be as violent, if not more, then the person attacking you.

Why do drug taking thugs who drink and smoke 10 ciders a day beat up skilled martial artists or people with self defence training? Because they are more skilled? Because they know more techniques? They are more calculated and calm? Nope, because they frighten the shit out of you and have violent intent that is so high, they don't care about you and they don't care about the consequences.

The average, person or martial artist has empathy, respects the law and operates in a society that attempts to stamp out violent and aggressive behaviour with civility and reason.

Someone with a year's Krav Maga training can feel useless. Someone who boxes for years can feel lacking in self confidence. The reason is because it doesn't matter how much physical training you have or how skilled you are, if you do not have the resolve and the determination to end a fight against an aggressive and scary person then you will just be overwhelmed. You'll shit yourself before you've even begun.

The answer is to model their sociopathic behaviour. Think about it, if you want to become good at something (in this case, surviving violent encounters that we're totally unavoidable) then you model people who ARE good at it. If you train a part of your persona that can access a psychological state that has the qualities of someone you are fighting, then you will temporarily destroy the fear, the pre and post fight anxiety, the fear of consequences and the fear of humiliation- because in your mind all you KNOW is that you are not gonna stop until this person is no longer a threat. You need to KNOW and have the WILL to do this. And it doesn't come from sport sparring or boxing. It comes from training physically, emotionally and psychologically specifically for real life violence. Get my drift?

My quandary, is how do I introduce this very uncomfortable reality to the everyday person? Because I do not believe that any kind of martial art or self defence training will be effective unless you are training specifically for the objective at hand with emotional and psychological realism.

I understand that most self defence places are crap. But a lot of them aren't. It's just that they're not mainstream. The reason why they're not mainstream is because of things like the above. People don't wanna hear it. But my passion is to tailor this, so that ordinary people will want to hear it. Because they will never truly learn effective self protection without.
 
Lol, the bold made me laugh. If you are doing anything but attacking the attacker in a frightening and violent scenario then you've probably lost. The psychological damage that is done to you when you're the one being pounded whilst someone is screaming and swearing at you, telling you they're gonna kill your family- is potentially a fight ender for you.

"lol, the bold made me laugh" seems redundant. It's only slightly obvious you are laughing at the bold or you wouldn't have bolded it. So, just to be sure, you are saying that you would rather force yourself into the pocket no matter what the scenario is? Someone wailing around a knife versus someone who knows how to use one? And your reason for this is that, while you may be physically prepared to kill someone, you might not be mentally prepared to take verbal abuse? You DO have to attack, yes, but if I'm understanding your use of aggressive, then you'll likely get yourself killed. Don't make the same mistakes as most McDojos.

And of course most people are naturally not aggressive. That's the whole point. Training them to summon that aggression is purpose and training them to understand that it's a good thing and is useful is where I'm coming from.

What do you exactly mean by aggressive? Do you mean being able to press the attack or do you mean taping into primal rage so that you can kill someone?
Reaction time? What does that have to do with anything to do with violent intent? If you don't have the reaction time, then you need it! That's the whole point of training, to develop kinesthetic intelligence, the physical awareness to give as good as the opponent.

By reaction time, I mean that some people tend to be more effective at certain ranges and methods of attack, that was a lack of clarity on my part. Some people feel more comfortable at certain ranges because of what they have learned and also the compositions of their bodies, thus they react better. I'm not a great grappler, there are times where I, for a lack of a better phrase, just don't know what exactly to do but start punching and kicking; waiting for my opponent to get distracted to choke him out.

Okay first of all- we're not talking about the same thing. You're framing your responses from your experiences with "sparring" in a class. You are also making the mistake of assuming that sparring and fighting are synonymous. They are not.

They are not. I know from personal experience. Hence the slash. If you believe that sparring and "IRL" fighting have nothing to do with each other, then I'm afraid I can't speak further on the subject. Your mind is already made up. Even in a controlled setting where I know what to expect, if I get angry because I'm not winning, sure my attacks get stronger perhaps but I also become less effective technique wise, throwing wild punches and such.

Simple fight? What is a simple fight? What kind of fight are you talking about? There are different kinds of attacks, I'm not interested in match fighting or training people to do so. I'm interested in surviving violent confrontations that could otherwise not be avoided. You need to define what context you are talking about. No holds barred match?? Are you serious? I am not talking about walking up to someone and saying "wanna fight?" Or getting in a confrontation, putting a guard up, and getting in an MMA match.

There are different types of attacks and either using aggression or not seems like a false dichotomy. A fight at a college frat party is, most likely, not going to be as dangerous as a fight between a hyped up mugger on the street. Even THAT match won't be the same if there are three gangsters feeling hard. If I was fighting a drunk frat boy at a party, I would not pick up a knife, pen, keys, or anything of the such and jab him in the eye with it and slash his risks unless the situation called for it.

(No holds bar was supposed to signify street fight btw, not a match. Sorry if my diction isn't clear. I'll try to be more concise)

Mmm Hmm. Arm breaks huh? Ever broken a man's arm? Hyper extended their elbow joint, until you hear a sickening crack and wailing scream- then given a 5 year prison sentence? Lol, you talk about not needing a violent/aggressive mindset, then talk about breaking a man's arm. The repercussion's of such an act, and the level of psychological violent intent that you would need to carry out that mind of violence is very high- verging on sociopathic if you are not in a life or death situation.

Have I ever broken a man's arm? No. I've practice arm bars and breaks in class and I've only hyper extended one in self defense. As in I was getting attacked in the bathroom by a football player after school. I don't see that attack as a process of my aggression, I was not raging at my opponent, I did not strike him after he conceded the match.


Protip: Read all of my post. Not just part of it. A few of the assumptions you made were completely baseless. Sorry.

Edit: Eh. Post was going to be longer, but I have to go to class.
 
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"lol, the bold made me laugh" seems redundant. It's only slightly obvious you are laughing at the bold or you wouldn't have bolded it. So, just to be sure, you are saying that you would rather force yourself into the pocket no matter what the scenario is? Someone wailing around a knife versus someone who knows how to use one? And your reason for this is that, while you may be physically prepared to kill someone, you might not be mentally prepared to take verbal abuse? You DO have to attack, yes, but if I'm understanding your use of aggressive, then you'll likely get yourself killed. Don't make the same mistakes as most McDojos.

I'm not really sure what you mean with bold, but I'll answer: Being physically prepared and being psychologically prepared are synonymous. By saying that one has the physical ability to beat someone alone you're kind of distilling all the attributes and skillsets that are required to do so into an element of simple programming nature. Being able to fight an attacker is more to do with finding intelligent solutions to a problem. For the record I define skill as being able to do that in a fluid and unconscious way. To say you are physically prepared but not psychologically is like having a car with no fuel, is see it as a misnomer.

It's not just about verbal abuse, it's the paradigm of an offensive attacker. Pre and post fight anxiety are the killer's of most people, even if they are physically skilled. Different types of fight fear and the accompanying adrenal release can be over powering.

What do you exactly mean by aggressive? Do you mean being able to press the attack or do you mean taping into primal rage so that you can kill someone?

My apologies, I haven't reeeeally fully explained what I meant by my use of aggression and violence in this context. I define this particular aggression as the will to do harm on another in a combatively intelligent and aggressive way. Intelligence being a key factor that differentiates it from mindless aggression. The concept of attacking the attacker, hitting first (in a pre-fight ritualistic scenario) and following through are the very combative principles that require aggression, at least in an subconscious way, that should be embedded in your training. This aggressive mindset also serves the purpose of being able to go from your everyday personality, to one that can deal with frightening and violent situation. Fear of injury, fear of death and fear of humiliation are the stop gaps to otherwise sound gameplan's against violence. This aggressive mindset allows you to temporarly mirror sociopathic and violent behaviour to get the job done.

This doesn't mean that you rip the person's face off and drink their blood, it's all about conviction and self confidence- which is what most people lack even if they have great, practical and relevant training, unfortunately. If you KNOW deep down, that know matter what happen's, you can get through this situation, no matter how scary it is, then that is a very powerful tool and skill.

By reaction time, I mean that some people tend to be more effective at certain ranges and methods of attack, that was a lack of clarity on my part. Some people feel more comfortable at certain ranges because of what they have learned and also the compositions of their bodies, thus they react better. I'm not a great grappler, there are times where I, for a lack of a better phrase, just don't know what exactly to do but start punching and kicking; waiting for my opponent to get distracted to choke him out.

Yeah, I see what you mean. The problem is that, the attacker dictates the fight. They dictate how they wanna fight, where and when. As you protect yourself, it's up to you to find intelligent solutions to each problem. It's not about your personal preference for how you wanna fight because, again, the attacker will how attack you how he pleases. Of course then it's up to you to make the opportunities for yourself and work it to your advantage.

You mentioned punching and kicking whilst stuck in grappling. It seem's like simple programming to me- you can't fit a round peg into a square hole. You just have to make sure you have a good foundation in all the required area's and skill sets.

They are not. I know from personal experience. Hence the slash. If you believe that sparring and "IRL" fighting have nothing to do with each other, then I'm afraid I can't speak further on the subject. Your mind is already made up. Even in a controlled setting where I know what to expect, if I get angry because I'm not winning, sure my attacks get stronger perhaps but I also become less effective technique wise, throwing wild punches and such.

No, I meant "sport sparring". Boxing and Muay Thai and other full contact sport combat sparring are great. I've been boxing for 2 years and it's fantastic. When I train my self protection, the skillsets and attributes we're training at the time it's always with another partner and it's always "alive". I'm always struggling against another intelligent human being when training. So in a sense, I am always sparring- we just keep the compliance and combative pressure on low heat for the development of skill. We remain calm and be intelligence.

There are different types of attacks and either using aggression or not seems like a false dichotomy. A fight at a college frat party is, most likely, not going to be as dangerous as a fight between a hyped up mugger on the street. Even THAT match won't be the same if there are three gangsters feeling hard. If I was fighting a drunk frat boy at a party, I would not pick up a knife, pen, keys, or anything of the such and jab him in the eye with it and slash his risks unless the situation called for it..

Yep, yep. But now we're moving onto different territory aren't we? See, this is where we need to concisely define what context's we are talking about. When I talk about this aggressive combative mindset, I'm assuming we're in a life or death situation where all options of escape and de-escalation have been exhausted. I do this to be generic, because at the root of all combatives training- is the fundamental ability to be able to fight out of a life or death situation. Of course, these kinds of scenarios are extremely rare for any individual citizen.

You have pre-fight ritualistic attacks, where there is some kind of build up (usually verbal, then aggressive etc. can come in many flavours and contexts though) then there are ambush attacks- where no matter how switched on you are or how aware you are, you couldn't see the attack coming and we fight a from an instinctive flinch response.

Then you have all the shades of grey as you mentioned- it's all about making judgements and evaluating a situation and deciding the level of force (or non-force) to use. If you train for the worst case scenario, ALL the skill's and confidence that you gain from that physically and psychologically, can transfer onto all other combative skills that will require you to deal with more everyday scenario's that most people are likely to get involved in.

This also includes social conflict such as bullying, toxic relationships etc. I'm definitely into helping people "protect" themselves in a holistic sense, not just beating the shit out of people.

But we weren't talking about all those shades of grey when I started introducing this concept of aggression were we? Which was unfair because we were only talking a specific context.

Have I ever broken a man's arm? No. I've practice arm bars and breaks in class and I've only hyper extended one in self defense. As in I was getting attacked in the bathroom by a football player after school. I don't see that attack as a process of my aggression, I was not raging at my opponent, I did not strike him after he conceded the match.

Well the effectiveness of breaks and such are dubious in my experience and research so I'm gonna hold my tongue on that one because that's a whole other argument all together.

Protip: Read all of my post. Not just part of it. A few of the assumptions you made were completely baseless. Sorry.

Assumptions about you, or the things I was talking about?
 
Hmm...well, I guess it would have been better to read some of your other, more recent posts before answering. Just from your questions, I thought you were seeking advice on selecting a method of self-defense and wanted to know how to choose a good school and instructor. However, it looks like, from your posts, you're already pretty experienced. Oh, well. Maybe somebody else will be able to use the information.
 
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I'm not really sure what you mean with bold, but I'll answer: Being physically prepared and being psychologically prepared are synonymous. By saying that one has the physical ability to beat someone alone you're kind of distilling all the attributes and skillsets that are required to do so into an element of simple programming nature. Being able to fight an attacker is more to do with finding intelligent solutions to a problem. For the record I define skill as being able to do that in a fluid and unconscious way. To say you are physically prepared but not psychologically is like having a car with no fuel, is see it as a misnomer.

I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding the point of this paragraph but, if i do understand it correctly, I disagree. I know of people who have the ability to kill someone and yet they can't actually do it; once they hear the bone crunching and such they start to chicken out. It seems rather similar to gun training: How someone can be trained to aim, shoot, and kill but not actually do it in real life.
It's not just about verbal abuse, it's the paradigm of an offensive attacker. Pre and post fight anxiety are the killer's of most people, even if they are physically skilled. Different types of fight fear and the accompanying adrenal release can be over powering.

Could you please explain further how post fight anxiety kills people?

My apologies, I haven't reeeeally fully explained what I meant by my use of aggression and violence in this context. I define this particular aggression as the will to do harm on another in a combatively intelligent and aggressive way. Intelligence being a key factor that differentiates it from mindless aggression. The concept of attacking the attacker, hitting first (in a pre-fight ritualistic scenario) and following through are the very combative principles that require aggression, at least in an subconscious way, that should be embedded in your training. This aggressive mindset also serves the purpose of being able to go from your everyday personality, to one that can deal with frightening and violent situation. Fear of injury, fear of death and fear of humiliation are the stop gaps to otherwise sound gameplan's against violence. This aggressive mindset allows you to temporarly mirror sociopathic and violent behaviour to get the job done.

So aggression is basically the ability to press the attack? I'm sorry, your definition seems kind of convoluted right now, I'm really tired so it might just be me. Also, you're conditioning people to be able to deal with frightening and violent situations? That's good. I'm not sure how getting rid of the fear of death and injury would be a benefit in a situation though.


This doesn't mean that you rip the person's face off and drink their blood, it's all about conviction and self confidence- which is what most people lack even if they have great, practical and relevant training, unfortunately. If you KNOW deep down, that know matter what happen's, you can get through this situation, no matter how scary it is, then that is a very powerful tool and skill.

Ah, sorry, when I was thinking of aggression, I was thinking of it in terms that my friend described his self defense class and one particular story I heard about one of his students: One man grabbed my friend's female student and the man woke up in the hospital a week later with a stiletto in his jaw, amensia because she repeatedly bashed his brain into the pavement well after his passed out, etc. Apparently nearly killing someone is victory. Not just saving your life. But, again, that's my bias and that's my fault lol.

Yeah, I see what you mean. The problem is that, the attacker dictates the fight. They dictate how they wanna fight, where and when. As you protect yourself, it's up to you to find intelligent solutions to each problem. It's not about your personal preference for how you wanna fight because, again, the attacker will how attack you how he pleases. Of course then it's up to you to make the opportunities for yourself and work it to your advantage.

Some of these issues can be overcome though. Avoid specific places and you won't have to fight there, stay in safe places at night time, etc. Also, just as much as your attacker can control the pace of the fight, so can you. With that being said, knowing how to fight in generally all positions can help though.

You mentioned punching and kicking whilst stuck in grappling. It seem's like simple programming to me- you can't fit a round peg into a square hole. You just have to make sure you have a good foundation in all the required area's and skill sets.

Simple programming or acquired skill, it works. It's not a "wrestling" move or anything of the such though. Pure protection.
No, I meant "sport sparring". Boxing and Muay Thai and other full contact sport combat sparring are great. I've been boxing for 2 years and it's fantastic. When I train my self protection, the skillsets and attributes we're training at the time it's always with another partner and it's always "alive". I'm always struggling against another intelligent human being when training. So in a sense, I am always sparring- we just keep the compliance and combative pressure on low heat for the development of skill. We remain calm and be intelligence.

Ah. I see. I agree.

Yep, yep. But now we're moving onto different territory aren't we? See, this is where we need to concisely define what context's we are talking about. When I talk about this aggressive combative mindset, I'm assuming we're in a life or death situation where all options of escape and de-escalation have been exhausted. I do this to be generic, because at the root of all combatives training- is the fundamental ability to be able to fight out of a life or death situation. Of course, these kinds of scenarios are extremely rare for any individual citizen.

You have pre-fight ritualistic attacks, where there is some kind of build up (usually verbal, then aggressive etc. can come in many flavours and contexts though) then there are ambush attacks- where no matter how switched on you are or how aware you are, you couldn't see the attack coming and we fight a from an instinctive flinch response.

Then you have all the shades of grey as you mentioned- it's all about making judgements and evaluating a situation and deciding the level of force (or non-force) to use. If you train for the worst case scenario, ALL the skill's and confidence that you gain from that physically and psychologically, can transfer onto all other combative skills that will require you to deal with more everyday scenario's that most people are likely to get involved in.

Ah, I see. Hmm, I'm not exactly sure based on the story above, the women only knew how to attack one, raged-infueled, way and the results of that were-quite devastating to say the least. I tend to think that if you start off learning how to kill someone, you're going to end up killing someone which is good if you ONLY fight in self defense in the scenario you described. Some people tend to get into petty fights in college and such, and you don't need to be going for a choke out there.
This also includes social conflict such as bullying, toxic relationships etc. I'm definitely into helping people "protect" themselves in a holistic sense, not just beating the shit out of people.
But we weren't talking about all those shades of grey when I started introducing this concept of aggression were we? Which was unfair because we were only talking a specific context.

Well, to be quite honest, I didn't bother reading the whole thread. I didn't have the time. I just read the last page and something of particular interested me, and that was your comment about "A violent mindset is required for a violent situation" (paraphrase). That statement was also vague based on your post alone. Yes, it was unfair, but it was not a strawman.

Well the effectiveness of breaks and such are dubious in my experience and research so I'm gonna hold my tongue on that one because that's a whole other argument all together.



Assumptions about you, or the things I was talking about?

Assumptions about me. If you know what you're talking about then you're not making assumptions about the subject.