Relationship mess - I need help!

[larcipelago]

Many thanks @dragulagu . Best advise I have heard so far in my life. I have always wondered whether this monkey brain of me is a gift or a curse?. Even though I have been a good listener, I never really OPEN UP to anyone. Not even those who I felt matching my monkey brain. I guess throwing all in the forum anomymously may be my cowardly introverted decision (may be the best available option for me). I read many threads from you guys, which beautifully describe who we are (if this forum is up to its name).

In many chapters of my life, I arose from an unknown introvert into a silent helper, a source of wisdom for many. I never asked anything in return if I played Professor X's role to anyone I considered worthy, to help their lives, deal with their problems, set tactics and strategies, be it my friends, former boss, and even subordinates. For me, if they became success I am happy. The glass is full!

This monkey brain has been useful in reading things fast, a combination that I cannot explain in words that in many cases appear to be precise.

In my case I learned that when we rule, when we have power, we became a loved leader, an inspiring ones, rather than a feared ones.

Just like Magneto who became in Limbo after Professor X left him, my former boss admitted my dissapearance left a big empty hole in his heart. All my former colleagues told me they missed a piece of me there. My female friend, who I chosed to slowly shut the door (because she had a different expectations of me), also admitted a big hole in her heart.

Is it a gift or curse? I often made predictions about somebody: "this guy/girl will comeback to me and will tell me I have learnt my lesson." In many times it happened, even though I had to turn into a heartless person in the process of doing it.

Some of my readings about this monkey brain may also fit into my experiences, we can easily switch mode whenever we needed to, to attend a party, to mingle, it doesnt matter. And who cares who we become in the party? Although Definitely this monkey brain gives us our character.

Coming back to my wife and my life, I am also a human, who feels tired of being Professor X for many people. After feeling the fatigue of being an empath, recovering from the bombardment of feelings in my working place, adjusting to my office's need, my wife doesnt seem like to understand the best gift for me is: the silence and leave me alone part.

Most of you, who have this same monkey brain, probably are experienced about our possible extreme decision that one day we may allow everything around us to get burned. The ground zero thing and start all over again. Again, I am askimg myself it is a gift or curse? Realizing I could be harmful to my loved ones is also killing me. In many times I asked myself, did I pick the wrong partner? I dont mind to have an extrovert narcistic partner (after all, I likely have won her heart although I havent bent her character). But is this what I want for the rest of my life? People, friends, colleagues I can easily break the chain, but wife?

When my wife is sleeping I keep telling myself: I will try to be there for you for as long as you need me on your side. I will deal with your fusiness, annoying and spoiled attitude. I want to bend you over but for sake of your goodness.

The problem is: I keep worrying that ultimately I may say to her: "Go ahead, do things your way. These are the possible damages. There you go, I put everything on the table and you will comeback to me 5 years later only to realize there is no reverse in what has negatively happened."

Again, is it a gift or curse? My little boy and girl never cried if my wife yelled at them, but if it is me, who appears very upset, they cried. This Damn monkey brain even has deep effects to children. Like many of you I never get angry to small little mistakes, and they love me for allowing them to learn their mistakes but when they crossed the line, I could be as hell in their eyes.

I keep wishpering in my head, if I have to sacrifice my self development to you guys (the children) I will do it. In many times I often imagined of getting a matched partner with the same monkey brain so we can steengthen each other. I tried some with friends who I sensed having the same monkey brain, it had negative effects so I shut it down.

Anyway, Professor X never have a matching sparing partner didnt he? May be: so be it.

 

[dragulagu]

Ok, let me put context to why i originally said "stupid monkey brain" and removed it, because it's taken out of context (this is my fault).

Everyone has this monkey brain, it is our subconcious. It is what we immediately behave on in a reactive or subconcious state to any situation we are in. This came from our past as primates.
Our Thinking is linked to it, our Feeling is linked to it, our Conciousness is linked to it, everything in our body is linked to it. It's part of who we are and it has helped us survive many situations in our past.
And most of it is automatic behavior. That's why i called it the "stupid monkey brain".

To your question whether it's a gift or curse: People who can read others' subcioncious behavior naturally do this through high Emotional Intelligence.
It's a gift when you understand the person's situation and are able to emphatize with them. It's a gift when you are able to understand your own emotions as well.
It's a curse when you start to apply it to someone, as it becomes manipulation.

People need be heard out first and learn themselves. And only if they ask for help, it is ok to advice and guide them.
I've been given this advice before myself and I damn well wished I properly followed up and through on this.

As for your personal situation, you are saying that your wife doesn't understand the "silence and leave me alone" part. You'll have to figure this one out yourself. If there is a possibility to discuss some balance between alone-time for yourself and quality time with her, that would be a nice start.

Anyway...my monkey brain is full now. I've learnt something as well.

 

[Ren]

I love Casino!

Better than Goodfellas imh(right)o

Just asked my buddy if he wants to watch it tomorrow, he owns the film and has been recommending that we watch it for years.

You should watch it, it's a classic.

But for me, the greatest gangster/De Niro masterpiece is Once Upon a Time in America. The Scorsese films are great but do not match it.

Once Upon a Time in America will make you laugh and cry.

 

[larcipelago]

Thank you @dragulagu.

I do understand what you mean by the phrase of "stupid monkey brain" no worries.

Thank you for the wise words. Sometimes it just feels good to hear that from another person.

All the best for you bro.

 

[Deleted member 16771]

Better than Goodfellas imh(right)o

Lol, I'm not sure, personally. I could go either way.

You should watch it, it's a classic.

But for me, the greatest gangster/De Niro masterpiece is Once Upon a Time in America. The Scorsese films are great but do not match it.

Hmm, never saw that the whole way through. I'm still a big Godfather fan, though. The Scorsese stuff is a bit lary by comparison (but that's what makes them fun).

 

[Ren]

Lol, I'm not sure, personally. I could go either way.

Casino has more De Niro in it, therefore better.

Just kidding. I think I prefer it because it's better structured. Goodfellas felt a bit loose at points but that could also be its charm.

Hmm, never saw that the whole way through. I'm still a big Godfather fan, though. The Scorsese stuff is a bit lary by comparison (but that's what makes them fun).

Watch the whole thing, heathen!

I prefer it to Godfather II, maybe not Godfather I but De Niro's not in that one I don't think.

 

[dragulagu]

Thank you @dragulagu.

I do understand what you mean by the phrase of "stupid monkey brain" no worries.

Thank you for the wise words. Sometimes it just feels good to hear that from another person.

All the best for you bro.

@larcipelago I'm going to ask one question though, if I may; what is your personal interpretation on these wise words?

 

[Reason]

I'm actually in a pretty similar situation as OP (minus the infidelity) In that I'm also currently dating someone who can't finish thier thesis because of anxiety.

I would be really interested to know more about what treatment she's tried to get for the man or what she's done to help him. Currently it reads like she's contributing nothing to the relationship and is just expecting him to magically get better on his own. And when he fails to do that, she simply scraps him for someone else. In the process treating both people in question not as beloved spouses but as resources to exploited towards her goal of becoming a mother.

I hope dearly this isn't the case because then the situation is as tragic as it is cynically self serving. If that is the case I feel sorry for her future children as well. I don't know if they will simply be 'resources' as well. Something to be exploited as long as they are useful.

 

[larry806q]

Hi everyone,

I am new here. I found this platform because I was searching for some kind of help. I am going though one of the hardest situations of my life so far and am close to breaking from emotional exhaustion.

i recently found out that I was an INFJ. It was a wonderful day because this was the first time I felt understood and not alone. Before that I always felt line there was something wrong with me because I wa different than others.

Now I am dealing with the following situation:
I broke up with my boyfriend of over 4 years in September. I would have never thought that I would ever break up with someone but somehow I did. The issue was not that I didn’t love him. I do love him very much still and can put imagine not having him in my life anymore. He is my everything. But the problem was that for three years he is now trying to finish his degree at university. For three years he has been writing his masters paper and can’t finish it because he has panic attacks and depression standing in the way. He has promosed me for three years that he will finish and hand in his paper in two weeks/a month/after the holidays/2 months and so on. It was never true. I waited for three years being disappointed every two to four weeks because he again hadn’t finished it. Now why is it that important to me? The thing is that I want to get married, have kids and a safe and secure home. Kids and marriage are out of the question until he has finished his degree because I would be scared to end up with an unemployed partner and being responsible for all of our finances alone. He is 33 now, has never worked and on top of it all he’s getting his degree in a field that is not really asked for on the Labour market (biology). At least that’s true for Germany where we live. Graduates with great grades who finished in time have problems finding a job so even if he eventually graduates the possibilities for finding a job are slim to none.
So after being disappointed again for the 20th time I felt so helpless that I broke up with him.
He just moved in with me half a year ago which makes it so much harder.
He understands and even though I was angry at times I can’t blame him because he is sick and really suffers from depression and anxiety. But that doesn’t make it better. The opposite is true. It makes it so much harder because I do love him and because I care about him so deeply. He didn’t hurt me deliberately so how could I blame him?

I feel so guilty for leaving and so selfish. I feel like I left someone just because he was sick which is not his fault. How can I leave him when he’s depressed and cause him so much pain? The guilt and my remaining love are really killing me but I was so scared for my future that I didn’t see any other way. I need someone else’s perspective. Am I a jerk for leaving him? Was my reason valid or good enough or am I a selfish superficial person?

We are still living together clinging to the hope that he will finish his paper within a month so we can maybe try again. We both love each other and suffer a lot in this situation.

Unfortunately it gets even worse. After we broke up I met someone else. I was so drained from the emotional stress in my old relationship that it felt so good connecting with someone without being scared or sad all the time.
This new guy and I connected quickly. It was really weird. We had the same hobbies, interests, discovered that we grew up not far from each other in the same small town and knew a lot of the same people. He is amazing. I allowed the relationship to develop. I tried to stay out of my head and let it happen but now I regret it because now I am stuck. I told this new guy everything about my situation and I also was honest to my ex about meeting this new guy. I didn’t want to wait anymore for something that might never happen. I waited for three years and needed some perspective.

Now I am in love with this new guy but I still love my ex boyfriend. I don’t know what to do. I don’t want to hurt anyone but I brought this situation upon myself where I have to hurt one of them. The new guy wants to be with me and is patiently waiting for my decision. My ex still has hope that he might graduate and that our relationship has still a chance. I am letting all of us hanging because I don’t know what to do. I don’t know what’s right to do and I am incredibly scared of the consequences of my decision. What if I give my relationship with my ex a chance and end up with an unemployed depressed partner where I have to take care of him, potentially kids, finances and everything? I couldn’t handle that.
But what if I choose the new guy who I don’t know and trust that we’ll yet? What if he eventually leaves me (my ex would never leave me even when I am 80 years old, wrinkly and bed-bound) or starts treating me badly (he comes from an unstable home with divorced parents so the statistics imply that he might tolerate divorce and break ups more)?

whatever I do, I will be so scared of regretting my decision later and ending up with the wrong person.

And most importantly I don’t want to hurt either of them and I don’t want to be hated by either of them for not choosing them.

I am really close to breaking because there is no way out without a whole lot of hurt.

can anyone help or give me some advice please. Thank you!

Hi everyone,

I am new here. I found this platform because I was searching for some kind of help. I am going though one of the hardest situations of my life so far and am close to breaking from emotional exhaustion.

i recently found out that I was an INFJ. It was a wonderful day because this was the first time I felt understood and not alone. Before that I always felt line there was something wrong with me because I wa different than others.

Now I am dealing with the following situation:
I broke up with my boyfriend of over 4 years in September. I would have never thought that I would ever break up with someone but somehow I did. The issue was not that I didn’t love him. I do love him very much still and can put imagine not having him in my life anymore. He is my everything. But the problem was that for three years he is now trying to finish his degree at university. For three years he has been writing his masters paper and can’t finish it because he has panic attacks and depression standing in the way. He has promosed me for three years that he will finish and hand in his paper in two weeks/a month/after the holidays/2 months and so on. It was never true. I waited for three years being disappointed every two to four weeks because he again hadn’t finished it. Now why is it that important to me? The thing is that I want to get married, have kids and a safe and secure home. Kids and marriage are out of the question until he has finished his degree because I would be scared to end up with an unemployed partner and being responsible for all of our finances alone. He is 33 now, has never worked and on top of it all he’s getting his degree in a field that is not really asked for on the Labour market (biology). At least that’s true for Germany where we live. Graduates with great grades who finished in time have problems finding a job so even if he eventually graduates the possibilities for finding a job are slim to none.
So after being disappointed again for the 20th time I felt so helpless that I broke up with him.
He just moved in with me half a year ago which makes it so much harder.
He understands and even though I was angry at times I can’t blame him because he is sick and really suffers from depression and anxiety. But that doesn’t make it better. The opposite is true. It makes it so much harder because I do love him and because I care about him so deeply. He didn’t hurt me deliberately so how could I blame him?

I feel so guilty for leaving and so selfish. I feel like I left someone just because he was sick which is not his fault. How can I leave him when he’s depressed and cause him so much pain? The guilt and my remaining love are really killing me but I was so scared for my future that I didn’t see any other way. I need someone else’s perspective. Am I a jerk for leaving him? Was my reason valid or good enough or am I a selfish superficial person?

We are still living together clinging to the hope that he will finish his paper within a month so we can maybe try again. We both love each other and suffer a lot in this situation.

Unfortunately it gets even worse. After we broke up I met someone else. I was so drained from the emotional stress in my old relationship that it felt so good connecting with someone without being scared or sad all the time.
This new guy and I connected quickly. It was really weird. We had the same hobbies, interests, discovered that we grew up not far from each other in the same small town and knew a lot of the same people. He is amazing. I allowed the relationship to develop. I tried to stay out of my head and let it happen but now I regret it because now I am stuck. I told this new guy everything about my situation and I also was honest to my ex about meeting this new guy. I didn’t want to wait anymore for something that might never happen. I waited for three years and needed some perspective.

Now I am in love with this new guy but I still love my ex boyfriend. I don’t know what to do. I don’t want to hurt anyone but I brought this situation upon myself where I have to hurt one of them. The new guy wants to be with me and is patiently waiting for my decision. My ex still has hope that he might graduate and that our relationship has still a chance. I am letting all of us hanging because I don’t know what to do. I don’t know what’s right to do and I am incredibly scared of the consequences of my decision. What if I give my relationship with my ex a chance and end up with an unemployed depressed partner where I have to take care of him, potentially kids, finances and everything? I couldn’t handle that.
But what if I choose the new guy who I don’t know and trust that we’ll yet? What if he eventually leaves me (my ex would never leave me even when I am 80 years old, wrinkly and bed-bound) or starts treating me badly (he comes from an unstable home with divorced parents so the statistics imply that he might tolerate divorce and break ups more)?

whatever I do, I will be so scared of regretting my decision later and ending up with the wrong person.

And most importantly I don’t want to hurt either of them and I don’t want to be hated by either of them for not choosing them.

I am really close to breaking because there is no way out without a whole lot of hurt.

can anyone help or give me some advice please. Thank you!

Hi everyone,

I am new here. I found this platform because I was searching for some kind of help. I am going though one of the hardest situations of my life so far and am close to breaking from emotional exhaustion.

i recently found out that I was an INFJ. It was a wonderful day because this was the first time I felt understood and not alone. Before that I always felt line there was something wrong with me because I wa different than others.

Now I am dealing with the following situation:
I broke up with my boyfriend of over 4 years in September. I would have never thought that I would ever break up with someone but somehow I did. The issue was not that I didn’t love him. I do love him very much still and can put imagine not having him in my life anymore. He is my everything. But the problem was that for three years he is now trying to finish his degree at university. For three years he has been writing his masters paper and can’t finish it because he has panic attacks and depression standing in the way. He has promosed me for three years that he will finish and hand in his paper in two weeks/a month/after the holidays/2 months and so on. It was never true. I waited for three years being disappointed every two to four weeks because he again hadn’t finished it. Now why is it that important to me? The thing is that I want to get married, have kids and a safe and secure home. Kids and marriage are out of the question until he has finished his degree because I would be scared to end up with an unemployed partner and being responsible for all of our finances alone. He is 33 now, has never worked and on top of it all he’s getting his degree in a field that is not really asked for on the Labour market (biology). At least that’s true for Germany where we live. Graduates with great grades who finished in time have problems finding a job so even if he eventually graduates the possibilities for finding a job are slim to none.
So after being disappointed again for the 20th time I felt so helpless that I broke up with him.
He just moved in with me half a year ago which makes it so much harder.
He understands and even though I was angry at times I can’t blame him because he is sick and really suffers from depression and anxiety. But that doesn’t make it better. The opposite is true. It makes it so much harder because I do love him and because I care about him so deeply. He didn’t hurt me deliberately so how could I blame him?

I feel so guilty for leaving and so selfish. I feel like I left someone just because he was sick which is not his fault. How can I leave him when he’s depressed and cause him so much pain? The guilt and my remaining love are really killing me but I was so scared for my future that I didn’t see any other way. I need someone else’s perspective. Am I a jerk for leaving him? Was my reason valid or good enough or am I a selfish superficial person?

We are still living together clinging to the hope that he will finish his paper within a month so we can maybe try again. We both love each other and suffer a lot in this situation.

Unfortunately it gets even worse. After we broke up I met someone else. I was so drained from the emotional stress in my old relationship that it felt so good connecting with someone without being scared or sad all the time.
This new guy and I connected quickly. It was really weird. We had the same hobbies, interests, discovered that we grew up not far from each other in the same small town and knew a lot of the same people. He is amazing. I allowed the relationship to develop. I tried to stay out of my head and let it happen but now I regret it because now I am stuck. I told this new guy everything about my situation and I also was honest to my ex about meeting this new guy. I didn’t want to wait anymore for something that might never happen. I waited for three years and needed some perspective.

Now I am in love with this new guy but I still love my ex boyfriend. I don’t know what to do. I don’t want to hurt anyone but I brought this situation upon myself where I have to hurt one of them. The new guy wants to be with me and is patiently waiting for my decision. My ex still has hope that he might graduate and that our relationship has still a chance. I am letting all of us hanging because I don’t know what to do. I don’t know what’s right to do and I am incredibly scared of the consequences of my decision. What if I give my relationship with my ex a chance and end up with an unemployed depressed partner where I have to take care of him, potentially kids, finances and everything? I couldn’t handle that.
But what if I choose the new guy who I don’t know and trust that we’ll yet? What if he eventually leaves me (my ex would never leave me even when I am 80 years old, wrinkly and bed-bound) or starts treating me badly (he comes from an unstable home with divorced parents so the statistics imply that he might tolerate divorce and break ups more)?

whatever I do, I will be so scared of regretting my decision later and ending up with the wrong person.

And most importantly I don’t want to hurt either of them and I don’t want to be hated by either of them for not choosing them.

I am really close to breaking because there is no way out without a whole lot of hurt.

can anyone help or give me some advice please. Thank you!

By your criteria you don't necessarily have to hurt anyone! They both know the other exists and to one degree or another that there are "feelings". Keep both.
I realize that is more than likely going to go over like a lead balloon so consideration B. What lesson(s) do you want to learn and how do you want to learn them? What is either person or relationship going to offer you for learning experiences?
Larry

 

[larcipelago]

@larcipelago I'm going to ask one question though, if I may; what is your personal interpretation on these wise words?

My personal interpretation? Someone with pure objectivity is analyzing the questions, and comeback with some logic to think about

 

[dragulagu]

My personal interpretation? Someone with pure objectivity is analyzing the questions, and comeback with some logic to think about

Wrong answer mate.

The question is what you are reflecting on "I do understand what you mean by the phrase of "stupid monkey brain" no worries." (I already know the answer from another thread but it would be nice if you phrase your thoughts and feelings into the answer). Mere curiosity, no judgement.

 

[larcipelago]

Wrong answer mate.

The question is what you are reflecting on "I do understand what you mean by the phrase of "stupid monkey brain" no worries." (I already know the answer from another thread but it would be nice if you phrase your thoughts and feelings into the answer). Mere curiosity, no judgement.

Just to clarify. Was the monkey brain refers to our strong animal intuition that is a legacy of our bush gatherer anchestors that remains inside our heads.

It needs some preconditions to create a personality trait that preserves that strong animal instinct inside our heads.

The results? In modern era, if you like music, learn a bit, you can easily set up the strings of your guitar into the right set within minutes (I said if you like, if you dont like you wont bother taking the guitar).

Some who have the same interests may take longer.

I suppose arts is a lot easier to create by INFJs.

I donno about the others. May be if you are a chef, your touch will be different and unique because you cook more by instinct than thinking.

It can help in politics too when you see the bigger picture as if you are the music conductor. I dunno, probably I was wrong. That s why I like to observe my kind in here.

 

[dragulagu]

Just to clarify. Was the monkey brain refers to our strong animal intuition that is a legacy of our bush gatherer anchestors that remains inside our heads. It needs some preconditions to create human with a strong intuition like INFJs. The results? If you like music, learn a bit, you can easily set up the strings of your guitar into the right set in minutes. Some may take longer. I suppose arts is a lot easier to create by INFJs. I donno about the others. May be if you are a chef, your touch will be different and unique. It can help in politics too when you see the bigger picture as if you are the music conductor. I dunno, probably I was wrong. That s why I like to observe my kind in here.

The monkey brain refers to automated reactions in life, how we are autonomously tuned in responding to events around us without being consciously aware of it. It's not intuition Persé, It's rather the instinctive response in all of us. I call it stupid monkey brain because most of this ins uncontrollable. It's where we impulsively react to, with good reason.

INFJ intuition, to my eyes, works with the aspect of feeling events over their whole body and senses. I've observed it here and with INFJ's in my life, you will always process events first to what you feel at that moment. Then, after some time , it will trickle down to your thoughts and you will respond differently. That's why I've learned to wait a bit with responding here and see how you are tuning yourself to your answer, because emotions play a large role in the response.

INTJ respond differently by immediately responding first by thoughts, not taking feelings into account, then trickle down into the feeling. That's why I/we blurt out things involuntary without taking all feeling perspectives into account and sound like assholes. I attuned myself to that by giving a couple seconds pause before responding and by leading decisions with my subconscious self (which essentially is my internal feelings). When something doesn't feel right, I block myself from doing it. Works so far.

 

[larcipelago]

Thank you buddy. Let me observe words by words. My left brain is a bit slow at the moment, or I need a laptop. I am not an expert in psychology but I do enjoy (feel first think later) reading every words of your thought.

 

[larry806q]

Just to clarify. Was the monkey brain refers to our strong animal intuition that is a legacy of our bush gatherer anchestors that remains inside our heads.

It needs some preconditions to create a personality trait that preserves that strong animal instinct inside our heads.

The results? In modern era, if you like music, learn a bit, you can easily set up the strings of your guitar into the right set within minutes (I said if you like, if you dont like you wont bother taking the guitar).

Some who have the same interests may take longer.

I suppose arts is a lot easier to create by INFJs.

I donno about the others. May be if you are a chef, your touch will be different and unique because you cook more by instinct than thinking.

It can help in politics too when you see the bigger picture as if you are the music conductor. I dunno, probably I was wrong. That s why I like to observe my kind in here.

Thank you for your explanation! Because.....in Buddhism "monkey brain" is the endless chatter going on in ones head.

 

[Rowanpip]

Yes, definitely. I think it's natural for women to want masculine men and men want feminine women. Of course there are exeptions to the rule but usually men ''have to be'' strong, they have to provide and and do all that manly shit, women on the other hand need to be a bit emotional, also more submissive etc
That's usually how it works and what we are attracted to in opposite sex.

 

[Rowanpip]

Yes, definitely. I think it's natural for women to want masculine men and men want feminine women. Of course there are exeptions to the rule but usually men ''have to be'' strong, they have to provide and and do all that manly shit, women on the other hand need to be a bit emotional, also more submissive etc
That's usually how it works and what we are attracted to in opposite sex.

There is a difference between a man having an high EQ and being "weak." The problem is, in many cultures, low EQ is equated with masculine strength. If you're emotionally blunted, somehow this is translated to being "strong" emotionally. However, which tree is more likely to fare better in a storm--the old rigid Oak or the flexible Willow?

 

[larcipelago]

you will always process events first to what you feel at that moment. Then, after some time , it will trickle down to your thoughts and you will respond differently.

Help me mate, this is tiring. I could possibly response not logically on something.

Just by feeling, what I could do: "this dude is an a*s ho*e I would just shorten my conversation to end it so I could avoid the toxic thoughts run into my mind. The person could possibly wonder what did I do wrong? And didnt realize I already scanned him.

 

[larcipelago]

Omg. Sorry for the delay. What you wrote are treasure.
Yes. My INFJ mind is slowing me (I hate it, but I love it). Sometimes I do want to have them all at once. The skill of INTJ and INFJ (sounds impossible, but I believe doable).

automated reactions in life, how we are autonomously tuned in responding to events around us without being consciously aware of it

I agree on the definition. But in practice, this could be backfire. Sometimes something instinctive may look illogical. Let s say you meet a good liar, who is really promising as they offer good solutions in anything. My typical response: "thank your for the offer and great story. I will think about it." Then I will never call the person back. (Usually in 5 minutes conversation I could tell the intention, and will have the urge in my heart. "The person is an a*s h*le, leave immediately!").
Some may wonder why didnt you calculate the prospects? I usually avoid and said I just dont trust that person. PULLSTOP. No logical explanation I want to share.

Why? It'is when I do notice some flaws in their statement and contradictory PLUS I noticed the gestures, eyelook, expression. It is quick like in a blink of an eye. But for me to THINK FIRST to respond logically, it is so damn hard.

Usually when one ask, I will just say
- "I dont like that person" OR
- "I like that person." OR
"I think it will work" OR
"I think it will not work"

PULL STOP.

The why? Abstract! And you want me to dechiper all of that information into your understandable logic? No way, it takes time. (This is usually I told the asker, leaving them in a more puzzled look. Zonk )

the instinctive response in all of us

Sometimes instinct that is not backed with heavy thinking also raises questions. It is just when I said "I feel like I could trust that person" then somebody would warn me, you need to see this and that first before saying that. I will just go "OK, let's put a bet on."

(If my x-ray scan says It s OK, I often over-trust it. The instinct that you call).

Would this lead you into a danger?
Trust your instinct more than logic? I also feel when logic comes later, it could be a disaster one day, if your reading is wrong. All your tactics will be spoiled. (This is my logic talking)

feeling events over their whole body and senses. I've observed it here and with INFJ's in my life, you will always process events first to what you feel at that moment

Yes. Talking about processing events. This could lead to a problem when you overthink you process the entire event in your life. The instinct-based summary of your entire life's audit could be a false intrepretation of the facts (that is my logic saying, not the instinct).

That is why a second opinion from beautiful mind people like in this forum is important.

it will trickle down to your thoughts and you will respond

INTJ respond differently by immediately responding first by thoughts, not taking feelings into account, then trickle down into the feeling. That's why I/we blurt out things involuntary without taking all feeling perspectives into account and sound like assholes. I attuned myself to that by giving a couple seconds pause before responding and by leading decisions with my subconscious self (which essentially is my internal feelings). When something doesn't feel right, I block myself from doing it. Works so far.

I need one clarification from this beautiful quote coz I am in the process of learning either to trust my instinct or logic FIRST. Even though we are INFJ i believe we can switch when necessary.

Block it like:

If it feels not right I wouldnt do it?

Or you block your instict and switch immediately to logic?

Can an INFJ really do it? I do admit there are times I need to think more before using my instinct. I guess it is the modern Homo Sapiens way isnt it? Especially when we live in an era where people are flooded by information.

(This part is a boring personal experience)
The problem with using instinct than feeling, some have noticed including my former boss in a news agency is he kept saying: dude you are slow at first (when thinking, or presented with facts) but when you are on (you are like a machine fueled by diesel. The longer you are on the better your performance is).

Some ask how did you write like that? I keep responding, you know what? It is my 10 fingers who think, not my brain. And everybody laughs with zonk face. (Annoyed, inside my heart I say, Dude if you ask Picasso how he paints like that probably he would answer the same)

Former boss often told me: if I have to wait for your master piece, then be it. I always enjoy reading your deep analysis rather than your quickly written stories. You take attention to little things and it made the color of your writing so vivid, alive and has character. It is like you are putting signature on your work and I can tell where and where (usually he laughs as he feels superior against me). I miss him so much, just to realize somebody understands my full potential is very comforting).

I always have a big question of Instinct or logic first? I have to admit when I noticed a false alarm it feels so ugly in my heart.

When we found our instinct isnt accurate, the logic side of our mind would say: "I told you (with a wide devil smile)" - I usually feel like a loser when this happens and say:

"Damn idiot, you have a beautiful gift called logic but why did you chose to follow your instinct first?"

I even made a score victory of instinct vs logic in my life. So far, instict still won and I could repeatedly told others "I told you so", but in the time when instinct failed, I feel so miserable.

This is me being though to myself.

A very simple example is you can trick a cat with false alarm just by playing Youtube near her. At the end, I feel like: "shit, animal instinct isnt always good. It can be fooled and manipulated in this modern era."

The ultimate results for counting how many times your instinct may have been innaccurate (the false alarm, the false judgement etc), for me, is a self crisis that forces me to think first rather than relying on instict first.

Probably that is why INFJs are so rare? We do preserve the animal instinct in our heads but in today's era I think we also need to adapt with new changes?

I dont know about other INFJs, but I can do it. I call it mute the feeling: less human, more robots. No more Instinct just logic mode: THE IF STATEMENT in the programming.

Some mentioned in this forum usually we do feel guilty or exhausted after doing it. Sometimes it works, but there are consequences.

On the other hand, my overthinking often says: "if one day your life is driven more by pure logic, life would not be that fun anymore."

It is like how boring when

a girl say: I love that person because:
1. He is rich
2. He is handsome
3. He is kind and caring
4. He is a hard worker
5. Bla bla.

Or a boy say:
1. She is pretty
2. She could be a good mum for my kids
3. She is smart
4. She is caring
5. Etc

Boriing

Note: I put some between the line messages here, so I could learn whether anyone responding this thread is driven by logic or instinct.
Or if it is not important it also doesnt matter coz I am a true introvert and I respect your introversion for not wanting to reveal your thoughts

 

[dragulagu]

Help me mate, this is tiring. I could possibly response not logically on something.

Just by feeling, what I could do: "this dude is an a*s ho*e I would just shorten my conversation to end it so I could avoid the toxic thoughts run into my mind. The person could possibly wonder what did I do wrong? And didnt realize I already scanned him.

Is this a situation you are in now or something?

The why? Abstract! And you want me to dechiper all of that information into your understandable logic? No way, it takes time. (This is usually I told the asker, leaving them in a more puzzled look. Zonk )

It takes time but you resolve that by asking the right questions during the conversation, I don't have the ultimate spidey feeling sense in human deciphering, but I usually can get a clue on their character by watching their eyes and minor gestures during the conversation. When I notice something spotty, I tend to go deeper into that specific topic. People rarely say the full truth during a first conversation, which is normal. The moment however when someone is bullshitting the talk for over 5 minutes is where I actively close off the conversation. They notice it because I tend to expressively show my annoyance.

General rule: Never judge a book by its cover or after reading only the first pages. If it's a smutty book, burn it.

Sometimes instinct that is not backed with heavy thinking also raises questions. It is just when I said "I feel like I could trust that person" then somebody would warn me, you need to see this and that first before saying that. I will just go "OK, let's put a bet on."

(If my x-ray scan says It s OK, I often over-trust it. The instinct that you call).

Would this lead you into a danger?
Trust your instinct more than logic? I also feel when logic comes later, it could be a disaster one day, if your reading is wrong. All your tactics will be spoiled. (This is my logic talking)

It does lead you to danger, but in time it's that path that sets your safe boundaries. Only way to train that is by interacting over and over again. It's also the only way to learn to know when you got someone with a serious personality problem (sociopath / narc / psychopath) and to defend yourself from them. These fuckers are incredibly good in hiding their intentions but after a while you get a play on their motivations. Narcs / Sociopaths I can handle, stroke their egos and it's all good, Psychos however scare the shit out of me but I sense that in time.

I need one clarification from this beautiful quote coz I am in the process of learning either to trust my instinct or logic FIRST. Even though we are INFJ i believe we can switch when necessary.

Block it like:

If it feels not right I wouldnt do it?

Or you block your instict and switch immediately to logic?

Can an INFJ really do it? I do admit there are times I need to think more before using my instinct. I guess it is the modern Homo Sapiens way isnt it? Especially when we live in an era where people are flooded by information.

If it feels not right I wouldnt do it?

I tend to leap a couple times between my intuition/feeling and my logical deduction, in the end: if it just doesn't feel right I won't do it.

I always have a big question of Instinct or logic first? I have to admit when I noticed a false alarm it feels so ugly in my heart.

When we found our instinct isnt accurate, the logic side of our mind would say: "I told you (with a wide devil smile)" - I usually feel like a loser when this happens and say:

"Damn idiot, you have a beautiful gift called logic but why did you chose to follow your instinct first?"

I even made a score victory of instinct vs logic in my life. So far, instict still won and I could repeatedly told others "I told you so", but in the time when instinct failed, I feel so miserable.

Instinct. And if you really want to confirm, grab your T friend/partner and ask him/her for a 2nd opinion. I do the same with my xNFx friends by asking how they feel about that person.

The ultimate results for counting how many times your instinct may have been innaccurate (the false alarm, the false judgement etc), for me, is a self crisis that forces me to think first rather than relying on instict first.

Probably that is why INFJs are so rare? We do preserve the animal instinct in our heads but in today's era I think we also need to adapt with new changes?

I dont know about other INFJs, but I can do it. I call it mute the feeling: less human, more robots. No more Instinct just logic mode: THE IF STATEMENT in the programming.

Some mentioned in this forum usually we do feel guilty or exhausted after doing it. Sometimes it works, but there are consequences.

On the other hand, my overthinking often says: "if one day your life is driven more by pure logic, life would not be that fun anymore."

It is like how boring when

a girl say: I love that person because:
1. He is rich
2. He is handsome
3. He is kind and caring
4. He is a hard worker
5. Bla bla.

Or a boy say:
1. She is pretty
2. She could be a good mum for my kids
3. She is smart
4. She is caring
5. Etc

Boriing

Note: I put some between the line messages here, so I could learn whether anyone responding this thread is driven by logic or instinct.
Or if it is not important it also doesnt matter coz I am a true introvert and I respect your introversion for not wanting to reveal your thoughts

+1, that's our Introverted Intuition, I have the same reactions just by having met so many people; you just get a certain roadmap on how people are motivated. It sounds nonchalant as fuck, but it's just the way Ni roadmapping works. We're not the only type that can do that.

decision on a whim vs long term decisions. I already spammed the book everywhere in this forum but it covers these 2 distinctive types of decision making in a chapter.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/35011639-before-you-know-it