Rant: Politics and Idealism | INFJ Forum

Rant: Politics and Idealism

Discussion in 'News and Politics' started by Satya, Mar 6, 2010.

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  1. Satya

    Satya C'est la vie
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    I'm getting tired of hearing this argument...

    "Why should I even try to make a difference when its not like I could really change anything?"

    I'm going to say this once and I hope people take it to heart.

    You can't change anything! The only thing you can change is yourself!

    But guess what? When you are in your 80's and you are looking at your decrepit self in the mirror, what memories are you going to have? Are you going to remember taking a stand for what you believed in when you were young or idealistic or are you going to wonder why you let your cynicism and apathy win? If you aren't willing to take a stand for yourself and what you believe in, then why would you ever expect anyone else to take a stand for you? '

    Politics is opinion. That is all it is and all it ever will be, but if you aren't wiling to stand up for your opinion, then your opinion was worth shit to begin with. And no offense to the type, but INFJs seem to be masters at making shit of their opinion just because they can't conceive of a way to make it reality. All you have to do is speak up and share it, but if you are too damn afraid of ruffling feathers then don't be surprised when you are full of regrets when you are old for never having valued what you believed.
     
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  2. Reon

    Reon Midnight's Garden

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    *starts a slow clap*

    I approve of this message!
     
  3. Sloe Djinn

    Sloe Djinn Idiot with Internet Access.

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    As far as voting is concerned, I don't really care about it all that much because I don't believe in the ability of any system of government to effectively bring about any change that I would consider necessary amongst such a large population of people. People are always slipping through the cracks and some changes that we think are good have unforseen negative repercussions that were never intended. More funding for schools? Great! But that money has to come from somewhere, and it may just come from some underprivileged population that is just as deserving. I am very skeptical of getting swept up in any campaign for change on a national scale because it is so hard to see the potential consequences. I guess I just do not have faith political systems on a national scale as it is nearly impossible to create any legislation that is not ham-fisted and will not result in taking food out of someone else's mouth or screwing with someone else's rights.

    It angers me, but I feel that making a difference would best be done by working to decrease the dependence of oneself and others on governmental institutions in general rather than to try to effect change in a system that is rife with corruption and special interest, and at the base of it all, a simple lust for power over others.

    Personally, I prefer to act as an agent of change by the things I do and the example I set in my interactions with others, not whom I voted for or what proposition I supported. I think that it is far more effective to promote change in one's immediate environment and amongst those with whom we interact in real life in order set a positive example rather than to get swept up in causes that affect people we don't even know and could have god knows what effect upon them.

    I do wholeheartedly agree that "I can't make a difference anyway" is BS, but I don't think that involvement in politics is necessarily the ideal way to make a difference.
     
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  4. OP
    Satya

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    The only way to make a difference is to start with yourself and to stand up for what you believe any and every way you can. This bullshit of, "I don't believe this will get the result I want so I'm not going to bother even trying" is ludicrous. You try not because you think it will work, but so that you at least know that you tried. You try so you can be proud of yourself, so that you know that in your own little way you did something, even if it wasn't perfect, even if it didn't change anything, so that when you are old and decrepit you at least know that you did your best. The reason that voting often doesn't work is because of the bullshit you are using to justify why you act the way you act. The reason the political parties can get away with the crap they get away with is because they don't have anything to fear from voters because the voters are apathetic and swallow this bullshit. But if it makes you feel good to be a part of that system of apathy, to just go along with it rather than at least trying so that you can tell yourself you tried, then have at it.

    You are the person who has to live with your choices.
     
  5. Sloe Djinn

    Sloe Djinn Idiot with Internet Access.

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    There's more than one way to skin a cat. Voting is not the way I choose. I assert that the ability to make positive change is not limited to a willingness to vote. I sincerely do not believe in government as a means through which to make lasting positive change and I resent any implication that voting is the only means by which I can stand up for myself and be proud of what I stood for. I want to state again that if I am able to reduce the dependence of myself an those around me on the government to put food on their table and keep them safe from harm, I would be proud of that accomplishment.

    I respect your opinion Satya but I do not agree with you.
     
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  6. OP
    Satya

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    Not limited? You live in a Constitutional Republic. This is not some libertarian utopia. Perhaps it is a strange thing for me to say to an idealist, but let's be realistic. Voting is the foremost way of making a change in this country. You don't even have to vote for the lesser of two evils in this country. You can write in who you want to vote for if it so pleases you. And no vote is a wasted vote. Even a write in vote for the Pink Power Ranger sends a message.

    And as I said, beginning with yourself is the key. But if you aren't using every avenue, then you are needlessly limiting yourself.

    But hey, my greater message is to live your life in a way that you can look back with no regrets. If this is the path that you feel will give you that outcome, then I say all the power to you. Personally, I find that kind of mentality to be very unfulfilling. It's too egocentric and naive. It assumes that as long as you advocate on behalf of your own individual freedom, it is fine that others are out stripping people of their freedom. The problem is that the day will come when they come for your freedom. History only repeats itself in this sense and the regret comes once you realized you should have stood up and spoke out long ago.
     
  7. IndigoSensor

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    I agree with this, however, I am still under the notion that I can't change things on the larger scale. To be honest, I am put off by most organizations, protests, and demonstrations. Even if I agree with the cause, I want nothing to do with it. It just isn't me. I work on things on the personal individual scale. That I feel I can make a difference with, so I use it as my medium.
     
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  8. Soulful

    Soulful life is good

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    On one hand, I understand what you're saying. On the other, to "try for the sake of trying" seems entirely futile. I get the point of making your life a testament to YOU, your values and your beliefs. Why else bother living.. But perhaps someone's version of being themselves is NOT being affiliated with politics and standing up for what they believe in in other ways.
     
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  9. Sloe Djinn

    Sloe Djinn Idiot with Internet Access.

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    On this we agree, and I would say likewise to you. Nice to meet you Satya.
     
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  10. OP
    Satya

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    Likewise. Nice to meet you Sloe Djinn.
     
  11. OP
    Satya

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    If you feel that you can live in that way and look back with no regrets, then that is the way you should live.

    As far as I'm concerned, that is the end of any conversation. "This is what I believe and I will never regret having lived this way."
     
  12. Norton

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    Satya, I agree with your OP, for sure. We're both likely on the same side of the political fence. But, I would point out that your exhortation to political action could equally inspire those in the so-called "tea party." In fact, all they represent is action, albeit incoherent, authoritarian, angry, and without any logical basis. More like brownian motion on the authoritarian side of things with a lot of friction and hot air mixed in. I prefer more action from those who stand with me than those opposed.
     
  13. OP
    Satya

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    You are mistaken. I'm happy the tea party people are doing what they are doing. Not because I support their beliefs, but because I support that they are willing to fight for their beliefs. I'm disappointed that they are motivated by fear and anger, but at least they are motivated by something.
     
  14. Norton

    Norton XXXX

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    Nazis were willing to die for their beliefs. Obviously, enough of them did.

    I'm hoping that enough publicity will appall enough rational voters so that the whole "tea party" thing blows up in its collective face. Chickens with their heads cut off, that's what they are.
     
  15. OP
    Satya

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    Trying to Godwin my thread are ya?

    Was the problem that Nazis were willing to die for their beliefs or that the opponents of the Nazis weren't willing to die for their beliefs? Although the irony is that the opponents of the Nazis ended up dying for their beliefs anyways.

    Fortunately, at the time, Americans were willing to die for their beliefs and so the buck stopped with us. The moment they ran into a group that wasn't consumed with apathy, they were driven back.

    The tea party is unorganized and has no leader. Such a movement will likely die unless someone takes the reigns. But such a leader would need to possess the libertarian motives of Ron Paul and the celebrity status of Sarah Palin, and to my knowledge no such figure exists.
     
  16. IndigoSensor

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    You know me, I disarm pretty much any argument I encounter :D.
     
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  17. OP
    Satya

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    You are the Switzerland of debaters.
     
  18. Norton

    Norton XXXX

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    Well, actually, any combat veteran will tell you that soldiers don't fight for their country or their beliefs, they fight for their unit, their buddies. I guess my point is that while it's important that people have the passion to act on their beliefs, it is, first, more important what those beliefs are. Obviously, Nazi beliefs, immoral in the extreme, made acting on them an abomination.

    Look, I consistently try to do good according to my beliefs and experience. I vote, I donate blood, I donate platelets, I write letters to Congress, I give money to charities, I've helped develop an important drug and I work to develop what I believe are helpful and useful technologies. But I don't do these things according to a continual passion. The passion comes intermittently, thankfully, because otherwise it would be too much. I just know what I do well and what makes me feel good, and connected to society. Perhaps I was more fiery about my beliefs thirty years ago, in my twenties. One mellows with age, yet still tries to do the right thing.
     
  19. OP
    Satya

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    All that I am suggesting is that people who do nothing because they feel it won't make a difference consider how they will feel when they are old and full of regrets that they didn't try for the sake of trying. If you are happy with what you do and you feel you do enough that you will not regret it, then that is the best way to live your life.
     
  20. Sloe Djinn

    Sloe Djinn Idiot with Internet Access.

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    Is that all? You don't even donate blood-plasma, and you claim you're trying to do good? Psh! :m027: (Kidding of course)
     
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